Is it ME? ...

[Gene Steinberg]

As I've said before, the problem with unbridled capitalism is that industries don't self-regulate. They just take advantage of the loopholes, and, if there is less regulation, more loopholes. The reason there is an Affordable Care Act in the U.S. is not because of a government attempt to assume power over the health care industry, but because of industry abuses. If the insurance companies were responsible corporate citizens, caring at least as much about customers as profit and loss and actuarial tables, you wouldn't have people going bankrupt because of medical bills due to exceeding the maximum allowable payment limit, or not qualifying for insurance because of preexisting conditions.

The best way to invite government intrusion is to act irresponsibly. Consider the consequences. Greed may be good, but not when innocent people are hurt in the process.

 

[stonehart]

As I've said before, the problem with unbridled capitalism is that industries don't self-regulate. They just take advantage of the loopholes, and, if there is less regulation, more loopholes. The reason there is an Affordable Care Act in the U.S. is not because of a government attempt to assume power over the health care industry, but because of industry abuses. If the insurance companies were responsible corporate citizens, caring at least as much about customers as profit and loss and actuarial tables, you wouldn't have people going bankrupt because of medical bills due to exceeding the maximum allowable payment limit, or not qualifying for insurance because of preexisting conditions.

The best way to invite government intrusion is to act irresponsibly. Consider the consequences. Greed may be good, but not when innocent people are hurt in the process.

Good summation Gene

 

[stonehart]

I'm with Stonehart on this, i think the net is the front end of what will eventually be the hive mind, that is the ability to not just swap and share information and data, but direct experience sets.
Ive long maintained that once a species starts to make tools, they are on a path to the point where the tools make them.

The internet is the horse and buggy to what will eventually become a Ferrari.
Which ironically enough still refers to its biological heritage in terms of "horse power"

That its happening is to me self evident, the real question i ask about the situation is, Are we seeing a process operating under its own unguided momentum, or is something driving it
Is it the mindless momentum of an avalanche, or is someone slowly boiling the frog

The last part is what worry's me the most about the overall direction of this technology.
It has the potential to unify us or turn us into slaves.

 

[flipper]

The last part is what worry's me the most about the overall direction of this technology.
It has the potential to unify us or turn us into slaves.

Some would say it has the potential to unify us and turn us into slaves.

 

[exo_doc]

Some would say it has the potential to unify us and turn us into slaves.

It could be argued there is no difference. Would unification involve becoming the Borg?

 

[boomerang]

I've always been of the opinion that, throughout history, nothing but advance in technology has ever changed large scale human behavior. Perhaps it's only with the advent of the nuke and the internet that millions of people are coming to confront this.

 

[stonehart]

Some would say it has the potential to unify us and turn us into slaves.

I've always been of the opinion that, throughout history, nothing but advance in technology has ever changed large scale human behavior. Perhaps it's only with the advent of the nuke and the internet that millions of people are coming to confront this.

Yes and yes ... kind of scary when you think of it.

But here is the problem of the so called elites, how would they be able to remain separate from the rest of the hive mind but part of it at the same time?
How would you be able to control what in all respects is a super mind?

Pure speculation but it is something to think about.

 

[mike]

A lot of people shudder and cringe at the idea of a hive mind, assuming it means the loss of the individual sense of self.
But we are not seeing this in the emergant model (if indeed that is what the internets is), nor do i believe that will be the standard in a more advanced model.
To my mind individual nodes only have value to a hive mind if their experience sets are unique.
One cannot play chess with a box of all black pawns

As long as the nodes have individual sensory inputs (eyes ears, noses etc) the environment itself will ensure no two experience sets are ever identical, just as is the case now.
Pooling, sharing and absorbing the experience sets from other nodes will no more rob us of our individual identity than watching a documentary on TV about life in Paris, does now.
Each node will still be at its core (as it is now) an individual, it has no value to the hive otherwise, The absorbtion of data from environments other than the nodes local one will only serve to enhance it

The loss of identity many assume is the result of hive mind membership, is contrary to its purpose

Watching Youtube clips from around the world, doesnt rob us of our individual identity.
The only difference in the advanced model is instead of simply seeing the scene via the lens of the camera, you will be able to experience it through the sensory inputs of the node in that location, not just see, and hear , but also smell and taste and feel, both the environment and the emotional responses of the observing node

 

[Tyger]

Just came across this book - The Future: Six Drivers of Global Change by Al Gore. I haven't read it but I have read the summary on Amazon which is reminding me of what some posters are saying. Here is the Amazon summary -

Text: From the former vice president and #1 New York Times bestselling author comes An Inconvenient Truth for everything—a frank and clear-eyed assessment of six critical drivers of global change in the decades to come.

Ours is a time of revolutionary change that has no precedent in history. With the same passion he brought to the challenge of climate change, and with his decades of experience on the front lines of global policy, Al Gore surveys our planet’s beclouded horizon and offers a sober, learned, and ultimately hopeful forecast in the visionary tradition of Alvin Toffler’s Future Shock and John Naisbitt’s Megatrends. In The Future, Gore identifies the emerging forces that are reshaping our world:

• Ever-increasing economic globalization has led to the emergence of what he labels “Earth Inc.”—an integrated holistic entity with a new and different relationship to capital, labor, consumer markets, and national governments than in the past.

• The worldwide digital communications, Internet, and computer revolutions have led to the emergence of “the Global Mind,” which links the thoughts and feelings of billions of people and connects intelligent machines, robots, ubiquitous sensors, and databases.

• The balance of global political, economic, and military power is shifting more profoundly than at any time in the last five hundred years—from a U.S.-centered system to one with multiple emerging centers of power, from nation-states to private actors, and from political systems to markets. [I believe this scenario is far too volatile to be accurately prognosticated - even by Gore.]

• A deeply flawed economic compass is leading us to unsustainable growth in consumption, pollution flows, and depletion of the planet’s strategic resources of topsoil, freshwater, and living species.

• Genomic, biotechnology, neuroscience, and life sciences revolutions are radically transforming the fields of medicine, agriculture, and molecular science—and are putting control of evolution in human hands.

• There has been a radical disruption of the relationship between human beings and the earth’s ecosystems, along with the beginning of a revolutionary transformation of energy systems, agriculture, transportation, and construction worldwide.

From his earliest days in public life, Al Gore has been warning us of the promise and peril of emergent truths—no matter how “inconvenient” they may seem to be. As absorbing as it is visionary, The Future is a map of the world to come, from a man who has looked ahead before and been proven all too right.

Here is the Amazon link - and within it is an audio link with Gore reading a significant part of the book talking about some of what is being fielded here - particularly the idea of an 'emergent phenomenon' of the new 'global entity'.

 

[Tyger]

This video really begins at 7:00 - Gore comes on stage at 4:00 - but begins his presentation at 7:00 - at 30:00 he talks about the 'Global Mind' (prior to that he presents an excellent overview of the nature of employment now and into the future) -

@smcder and @Constance At about 14:00 (give or take) Gore begins to talk about 'emergence' and given what you have been discussing on the 'Consciousness and the Paranormal' thread - what is your 'take' on how Gore is using 'emergent property'?

 

[Soupie]

I think the PTB are rolling out tech for two main reasons:

1) capitalism
2) surveillance

As for how to deal with the information overload: one must create a healthy diet not unlike dealing with the Western food overload. Find sources of the good stuff, and don't overindulge.

 

[Tyger]

I think the PTB are rolling out tech for two main reasons:

1) capitalism
2) surveillance

As for how to deal with the information overload: one must create a healthy diet not unlike dealing with the Western food overload. Find sources of the good stuff, and don't overindulge.

Totally agree with the second bolded part. I like the sum of your post, but I would question this idea of the 'powers that be'.

It's interesting - a goodly portion of those on this chat site (I'm not saying you, Soupie, just talking in general terms) seriously question the idea of soul and spirit, and even, oddly enough, psychic events. (A good dollop of cynicism is not a bad thing, imo). However, those self-same people will posit that 'powers that be' - or elites - have prescience of a kind that I - who very much endorse the existence of soul and spirit - would never ascribe as a matter-of-course to anyone, least of all groups, who are notoriously dumb when it comes to insight.

Hindsight is always 20/20, as the saying goes, and one can always squirrel away into the past and find nuggets hidden here-and-there 'in plain sight', ignored at the time, but with subsequent knowledge of trends one sees as pivotal. The 'powers that be' - like an Al Gore - may have added insight due to study and access to heavy-hitters (thinkers) - but Gore's synthesis is nothing that is not available to anyone inclined to do the same study. (Just look at his bibliography - all his notations - to see the trail of breadcrumbs he followed).

Capitalism is 'eyeless in Gaza'. It is Samson chained to the pillars - and it will pull the temple down around our heads 'without passion or prejudice'. The whole 'mechanism' is driven by individual choices of both survival and greed. The 'powers that be' can control it in only the broadest sense if it isn't already controlled by the government overtly. But as Gore so aptly phrases it - 'democracy has been hacked'. (His analysis of governance is particularly insightful imo).

As for surveillance - that is a two edged sword. Even Gore says as much. Such surveillance is a deterrent - but to think that any of it means anything more for each of us beyond the occasional crazy (in the surveillance structure) who decides they want to monitor someone in particular, there is little use for keeping tabs. There isn't enough man-power to make use of it for any reason - except as Gore suggests, for buying and selling.

This weekend we went to see the documentary Finding Vivian Maier - unexpected, we all agreed. Hard to say what we thought we'd see - probably something innocuous but charming - not something as dark and strange as it came to be. But there it is - the hoarder, the obsessively private, the paranoid view that one is being watched. Take that writ large. One has the problem any 'power that be' faces trying to control a mass of people - people are unpredictable, and often crazy in unexpected ways. There is the fact that one can trust an animal to behave like the animal they are - but not if a particular one is sick, injured or in pain. With humans it could be said that most of us are, in some measure, sick, injured or in pain - or can be placed in those categories very rapidly through adroit means. That said, none of us can be 'trusted' to behave in any way - even aberrantly - because even those subjected to those stresses can make other choices and defy the statistical odds.

The idea of elites that make overarching decisions knowing precisely where and in which direction such decisions will head us just doesn't stand up imo.

 

[Charlie Prime]

As I've said before, the problem with unbridled capitalism is that industries don't self-regulate. They just take advantage of the loopholes, and, if there is less regulation, more loopholes.

Exactly opposite of reality.

Corporations run governments. Regulations are written for their benefit. More regulation equals more benefit for corporations.

 

[Soupie]

@Tyger

When I refer to the PTB, I typically mean it in the sense: those with power to do stuff. And those with power to do stuff aren't always in cahoots. (But that doesn't mean they always aren't. )

But there definitely are those with power to do stuff and those without power to do stuff.

Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world - physics-math - 19 October 2011 - New Scientist

An analysis of the relationships between 43,000 transnational corporations has identified a relatively small group of companies, mainly banks, with disproportionate power over the global economy. ...

When the team further untangled the web of ownership, it found much of it tracked back to a "super-entity" of 147 even more tightly knit companies - all of their ownership was held by other members of the super-entity - that controlled 40 per cent of the total wealth in the network. "In effect, less than 1 per cent of the companies were able to control 40 per cent of the entire network," says Glattfelder. Most were financial institutions. The top 20 included Barclays Bank, JPMorgan Chase & Co, and The Goldman Sachs Group. ...

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Exactly opposite of reality.

Corporations run governments. Regulations are written for their benefit. More regulation equals more benefit for corporations.

Yes and no. Certainly not regulations governing the safety of motor vehicles, which were mostly opposed over the years by an industry that wouldn't pay a few dollars extra on a car to install a gas tank that wouldn't burst into flames upon impact (Ford Pinto), or the ignition switch on some compact GM cars that has become a major issue in recent weeks.

But the Affordable Care Act was written to benefit health insurance companies. They clean up their acts, they get tens of millions of new customers. And despite all the fear-mongering from Republicans, the entire plan was based on the work of the conservative Heritage Foundation dating back to 1989 — including the original mandate.

 

[#teamsheepsquatch]

But the Affordable Care Act was written to benefit health insurance companies. They clean up their acts, they get tens of millions of new customers. And despite all the fear-mongering from Republicans, the entire plan was based on the work of the conservative Heritage Foundation dating back to 1989 — including the original mandate.

I was surprised that the insurance companies were not regulated to a higher degree. Sure they may be required to cover certain conditions and procedures they have not in the past, but the bigger issue was not addressed. I'm a 28 year old employed male that supports his wife and three kids. Due to these new regulations the price of my health insurance nearly doubled. So did tens of millions of other citizens. This was because a lot of American companies are struggling to survive and barely staying in the black. They cannot afford to eat this cost so they pass it on to their employees. Instead of raising prices to the already insured and dropping the quality to meet the new "standard", big government should have done more. If you need help with insurance you should get it. Whether your low income, elderly, handicapped you deserve good healthcare, I’m just not so sure it should come on the backs of the middle class. Break up the conglomerate between the insurance companies and the hospitals. A Dixie cup of water and a couple aspirin should not cost you $45. That is the true problem and until it is fixed there will be unrest.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Did you check insurance through the Exchange? Did you see if you were eligible for income subsidies? Most of these claims of much higher prices do not hold up to scrutiny.

 

[flipper]

Exactly opposite of reality.

Corporations run governments. Regulations are written for their benefit. More regulation equals more benefit for corporations.

The situation that we have today, whether you think it is good or bad, is because of capitalism has failed to regulate itself (through the state.)

 

[flipper]

Yes and yes ... kind of scary when you think of it.

But here is the problem of the so called elites, how would they be able to remain separate from the rest of the hive mind but part of it at the same time?
How would you be able to control what in all respects is a super mind?

Pure speculation but it is something to think about.

The answer is that the elites have a different mind or are under the control of a different mind(s). Therefore they will be able to control our mind and keep their own. No one will foul-up their own nest but since they are from another dimension, universe, planet, they have no trouble wrecking ours.

 

[Tyger]

The answer is that the elites have a different mind or are under the control of a different mind(s). Therefore they will be able to control our mind and keep their own. No one will foul-up their own nest but since they are from another dimension, universe, planet, they have no trouble wrecking ours.

What? You are joking........