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Chris Aubeck, October 5 2014
- Thread starter wwkirk
- Start date
Jeremiah Dugger
Skilled Investigator
I thought it was a good show. Maybe a bit mythography oriented. They didn't ask him my question tho. 
I'm still curious about "NYMZA" and the Sonora Aero Club.(?)
I'm still curious about "NYMZA" and the Sonora Aero Club.(?)
Wade
FeralNormal master
You may want to go through the paracast archives for Walter Bosley ' s appearances, also c/o Don Ecker ' s Dark Matters radio, lastly Walter has been on Radio Misterioso several times.I thought it was a good show. Maybe a bit mythography oriented. They didn't ask him my question tho.
I'm still curious about "NYMZA" and the Sonora Aero Club.(?)
Jeremiah Dugger
Skilled Investigator
Thank you.
Ravensfee
Paranormal Maven
As a born-again neophyte I must admit I was unaware of Chris' work, something which I must immediately redress as his position on Ufology seemed to chime very much with my feelings. Parts of his work also reminded me, though not all, of the book "Daemonic Reality" by Patrick Harpur which was a very influential book on the younger me.
I found this episode very refreshing in that Chris whilst being agnostic on the underlying causes, makes us pause to think as he implicitly places the phenomena of today in a historical context that seemed to me anyway to cast a different light on the subject.
Thanks Gene and Chris O'B for another enjoyable and informative show.
I found this episode very refreshing in that Chris whilst being agnostic on the underlying causes, makes us pause to think as he implicitly places the phenomena of today in a historical context that seemed to me anyway to cast a different light on the subject.
Thanks Gene and Chris O'B for another enjoyable and informative show.
Polterwurst
Paranormal Adept
Great show. And great guest. Researchers like Mr Aubeck could convince me to regain something like hope for ufology. I actually think it's a good thing that he remains sceptical.
There are, of course, a few things I'd like to discuss further.
Most of all, why he thinks that the good Reverend Cummings was probably interpreting his sighting religiously. Had there been that many "Virgin Mary" sightings in 1802 already? I always thought these kind of sightings really took off only around World War I, with Fatima (EDIT: Lourdes was in the 1850s, I thought that was later).
In the excerpt Mr Aubeck read, there was (IMO) a surprising lack of religious language, given the fact that this was a reverend. The way I understood it, he "only" claimed to have seen the apparition of a deceased woman, which had been sighted repeatedly in the area, not the Virgin Mary.
The other main thing would be why he thinks it's nonsensical to look for commonalities in these cases. While I agree it's probably nonsense to think that there has to be one single explanation for all the paranormal / UFO experiences, sightings, claims etc., there are (IMO) definitely details that seem to show up in, say, hauntings, that allegedly appear in a similar way in UFO or "mystery light" sightings.
It's like someone talking about djinn, faeries, elves etc. as totally separate and unrelated mythological creatures that couldn't have a common mythological cause.
Anyways, thanks for asking my questions!
There are, of course, a few things I'd like to discuss further.
Most of all, why he thinks that the good Reverend Cummings was probably interpreting his sighting religiously. Had there been that many "Virgin Mary" sightings in 1802 already? I always thought these kind of sightings really took off only around World War I, with Fatima (EDIT: Lourdes was in the 1850s, I thought that was later).
In the excerpt Mr Aubeck read, there was (IMO) a surprising lack of religious language, given the fact that this was a reverend. The way I understood it, he "only" claimed to have seen the apparition of a deceased woman, which had been sighted repeatedly in the area, not the Virgin Mary.
The other main thing would be why he thinks it's nonsensical to look for commonalities in these cases. While I agree it's probably nonsense to think that there has to be one single explanation for all the paranormal / UFO experiences, sightings, claims etc., there are (IMO) definitely details that seem to show up in, say, hauntings, that allegedly appear in a similar way in UFO or "mystery light" sightings.
It's like someone talking about djinn, faeries, elves etc. as totally separate and unrelated mythological creatures that couldn't have a common mythological cause.
Anyways, thanks for asking my questions!
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junius
Skilled Investigator
Not a bad show really, I have to say though I found Mr Aubeck's constant 'Ers' and 'Urms' quite off putting at times. I do find historical reports of this nature interesting and I thought it was a good question in relation to plagues and famines that followed such reports. I have found isolated reports of strange phenomena myself whilst researching newspaper archives for a local history book. I discarded them at the time though as they were not directly in relation to my book. Interesting though.
Wade
FeralNormal master
Patrick ' s book also had a big impact on me. A couple of months ago I caught wind of an article he did for Fortean Times called "Landscapes of Panic", about that overwhelming seemingly non-existential sense of unease that overcomes many people when they are off the beaten path in the woods. I couldn't find it anywhere so I sent off an email to patrick, explained my interest to him and he sent me a word .doc on it.
I sometimes wonder if there is a correlation between this phenomena and the people that go missing in David Paulides' s books. Sorry about the off topic post.
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junius
Skilled Investigator
I'm not planning a book on this in the near future, nor am I aware of anyone else who is writing one.
Polterwurst
Paranormal Adept
Oops, I did it again. I meant 1806.
Ezechiel
Paranormal Adept
Loved it !
Reports prior the tech age, where faking it was hard and preserving your credibility was more precious than gold, are IMHO priceless and can bring support to many modern era theories about the 'phenomena'.
I especially like the farmer and son observation of a craft landing that was followed by a dark suited life form riding away in a floating carriage.... a few hundred years ago.
Reports prior the tech age, where faking it was hard and preserving your credibility was more precious than gold, are IMHO priceless and can bring support to many modern era theories about the 'phenomena'.
I especially like the farmer and son observation of a craft landing that was followed by a dark suited life form riding away in a floating carriage.... a few hundred years ago.
mike_thoth
Skilled Investigator
I really enjoyed Aubecks appearance. He is a genuine scholar, precise & more than aware of the trappings of circular reasoning & interpretations of folklore. I especially enjoyed his art perspective. Early symbols depict god as a circle or sphere I.e perfection (this is from memory so I maybe well off here).
It is important to bring all opinions to the table, the origin of UaP is not solved, no areas of research should be off limits. In 50-70 years or so science may have caught up, may have realised the potential impact this phenomena has had on humanity over the millennia regardless of origin.
Great show again & get him back with Vallee. Even if it's only to re-kindle an old argument regarding Joan of Arc!
Michael
It is important to bring all opinions to the table, the origin of UaP is not solved, no areas of research should be off limits. In 50-70 years or so science may have caught up, may have realised the potential impact this phenomena has had on humanity over the millennia regardless of origin.
Great show again & get him back with Vallee. Even if it's only to re-kindle an old argument regarding Joan of Arc!
Michael
Wade
FeralNormal master
Regarding Gene's "wacky" question, I've sometimes wondered if a number of these sightings...assuming it was a lucid experience...can not be attributed to a time rift, that is perhaps the parcipiants are witnessing an event transpiring in their future but could be happening in real time this very second. with the caveat that it's a hologram type of setting where the queer looking carriage appears to have a substance and depth but it actuality is like watching a t.v. program.
Wade
FeralNormal master
Thanks for asking my question btw. In a way Chris A. had answered it when he spoke of Birmingham ' s ark. Chris A. offers a free download of this report on the "vision" of Fred Birmingham. C/O page 6
Dropbox - Birmingham's Ark.pdf
I found Chris Aubek 's relaxed demeanor about the whole phenomena very refreshing and can even identify very much with some of his feelings. I actually enjoy the folklore "baggage" that accompanies ufology, as i never felt a need to dissect individual cases and argue about the merits of them...or lack of merit...for me it's always been about the experience. Awhile back i used to post as SpookyMulder but after a time abandoned it because besides being a lame choice it implied that i was seeking the truth or wanted to believe and i don't think that was ever tbe case, or maybe i was just fooling myself. Truth be told i didn't even have a strong interest in ufos until i became aware of the apparent connection with synchronicity, i also like to study cases that have the oz factor as an aspect. Having said all that t I have misgivings about Chris Aubek's opinion that there didn't seem to be any change in the phenomena over the centuries. Strange lights are strange lights no matter what time period is a little too simplistic idea I think regardless how the reports comes across.
Dropbox - Birmingham's Ark.pdf
I found Chris Aubek 's relaxed demeanor about the whole phenomena very refreshing and can even identify very much with some of his feelings. I actually enjoy the folklore "baggage" that accompanies ufology, as i never felt a need to dissect individual cases and argue about the merits of them...or lack of merit...for me it's always been about the experience. Awhile back i used to post as SpookyMulder but after a time abandoned it because besides being a lame choice it implied that i was seeking the truth or wanted to believe and i don't think that was ever tbe case, or maybe i was just fooling myself. Truth be told i didn't even have a strong interest in ufos until i became aware of the apparent connection with synchronicity, i also like to study cases that have the oz factor as an aspect. Having said all that t I have misgivings about Chris Aubek's opinion that there didn't seem to be any change in the phenomena over the centuries. Strange lights are strange lights no matter what time period is a little too simplistic idea I think regardless how the reports comes across.
mike_thoth
Skilled Investigator
Yeah I know what you mean regarding the possible evolution of the phenomena. I agree & disagree with Chris A. As a classical scholar he won't ever hypothesise outside the data.
I m Welsh, I live in Wales, a Celtic country. Consider a light in the sky witnessed by a villager. A white light floating about the sky.
Traditionally Witches would fly with a broom & a lantern on the end. A witness would see the globe, not the broom, so behaviour need not change, just perception. Who knows,
I m Welsh, I live in Wales, a Celtic country. Consider a light in the sky witnessed by a villager. A white light floating about the sky.
Traditionally Witches would fly with a broom & a lantern on the end. A witness would see the globe, not the broom, so behaviour need not change, just perception. Who knows,
Wade
FeralNormal master
i feel a little uncomfortable having to point this out but for the record i wasn't booted out of the magonia list exchange. i left on my own accord because i did realize i didn't have much game here. i did contribute about half a dozen reports in the year and a half i was there but in the end it wasn't my cup of tea for the reasons i mentioned in the Chris Aubeck question bank. Although some may beg to differ it wasn't a group for an weekend warrior armchair observer like myself. some of the databases that people were digging into were unknown to me, although not to those whose occupation is researching. and indeed as chris implied some of these sources were kept under wraps by those that used them. ( i asked a few times if some people would be willing to mention good sources and never heard back from them...but never a "No") it was like they needed the brownie points or something and seemed to fly against the spirit of the group. It was one more example of me joining a group only to pull away, as i go in with good feelings and clash with a certain hierarchy that goes against what i thought was the intent of the group. i was talking to albert rosales at the time about his plans to put his humanoid database on line and felt that was more my style. i may contact him again and see where he is at with that.
What Chris said about Albert's work being stolen is absolutely true, as Albert told me as much. Many of his reports are for the taking on ufo info, all one had to do was to copy and past and edit in a word processor and Voilà, instant humanoid book, in fact i thought i had spotted another case of someone doing this very thing and alterted albert to it but as it turns out it was authorized by albert. As far as i know Albert still offers a complete database of his listings on cd which was available for about $65 i think and he still sends me updates as he gets them.
just wanted to set the record straight. i feel so much more at home here.
What Chris said about Albert's work being stolen is absolutely true, as Albert told me as much. Many of his reports are for the taking on ufo info, all one had to do was to copy and past and edit in a word processor and Voilà, instant humanoid book, in fact i thought i had spotted another case of someone doing this very thing and alterted albert to it but as it turns out it was authorized by albert. As far as i know Albert still offers a complete database of his listings on cd which was available for about $65 i think and he still sends me updates as he gets them.
just wanted to set the record straight. i feel so much more at home here.
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caubeck
Paranormal Novice
Hi there,
Thanks for all the feedback. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have here.
Regarding the interview itself, I enjoyed the freedom to chat about whatever I saw relevant. I live in Spain and hardly speak English at all these days, let alone on the radio, so I'm not a very fluent public speaker. I tend to shy away from broadcasting but am happy to "practice" if I'm invited back. ;-)
I'm writing this from a hotel in Ohio, where I've come to do some research into six 19th century cases. It is important to gather details about the witnesses and locations at the places themselves (whenever possible). In three days I've visited five libraries and historical societies, gone through rolls of microfilm, taken photos and spoken to local residents. There's no excuse to leave any stone unturned if you want to do things right. On Friday I was tramping around a muddy cemetery in the rain with a friend and fellow researcher. Great times!! :-D
I didn't explain properly why I don't believe the phenomenon itself mutates over time. My main argument is this: most ufologists love to point out instances of saucer-shaped craft in historical texts and artwork. They get excited about any folkloric creatures with oversized heads and eyes, especially abductions. They look into old books for reports that strongly resemble modern sightings. This includes physical objects, situations and patterns in colors, behavior, size, etc. In other words, ufologists look for direct matches between the past and the present, and often find them. This does not imply that the phenomenon evolves over time, it suggests that the phenomenon has remained the same. If anything has changed it's the interpretation we give it.
I hope you all have a pleasant week,
Best wishes,
Chris
PS Magonia Exchange is a tool for serious research, with all the advantages and failings of any long-term collaborative project. There's no hierarchy and only a limited set of rules (basically: include exact references, try to obtain the original sources, remain as active as possible). It'so not for everyone and wasn't designed to be. But everyone is welcome to try it out.
Thanks for all the feedback. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have here.
Regarding the interview itself, I enjoyed the freedom to chat about whatever I saw relevant. I live in Spain and hardly speak English at all these days, let alone on the radio, so I'm not a very fluent public speaker. I tend to shy away from broadcasting but am happy to "practice" if I'm invited back. ;-)
I'm writing this from a hotel in Ohio, where I've come to do some research into six 19th century cases. It is important to gather details about the witnesses and locations at the places themselves (whenever possible). In three days I've visited five libraries and historical societies, gone through rolls of microfilm, taken photos and spoken to local residents. There's no excuse to leave any stone unturned if you want to do things right. On Friday I was tramping around a muddy cemetery in the rain with a friend and fellow researcher. Great times!! :-D
I didn't explain properly why I don't believe the phenomenon itself mutates over time. My main argument is this: most ufologists love to point out instances of saucer-shaped craft in historical texts and artwork. They get excited about any folkloric creatures with oversized heads and eyes, especially abductions. They look into old books for reports that strongly resemble modern sightings. This includes physical objects, situations and patterns in colors, behavior, size, etc. In other words, ufologists look for direct matches between the past and the present, and often find them. This does not imply that the phenomenon evolves over time, it suggests that the phenomenon has remained the same. If anything has changed it's the interpretation we give it.
I hope you all have a pleasant week,
Best wishes,
Chris
PS Magonia Exchange is a tool for serious research, with all the advantages and failings of any long-term collaborative project. There's no hierarchy and only a limited set of rules (basically: include exact references, try to obtain the original sources, remain as active as possible). It'so not for everyone and wasn't designed to be. But everyone is welcome to try it out.
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Thanks for joining Chris. You will be invited back.