Brad Steiger September 30, 2012

[aldo poe]

Wow so interesting

 

[aldo poe]

I agree I think one the vail is open you are more open to seeing these things that's why children are able to see this they believe what they see still as adults we are conditioned to not trust our senses and be"logical"

 

[Jeff Crowell]

It has been said by others before me that it seems that the more 'into' the paranormal someone gets, the more paranormal they get to experience?

It's almost as if there is some layer covering strange things that prevents the general public from seeing and understanding them, but the more you search for paranormal things, the more this layer is ineffective.
With Brad, he just gets to see the whole damned lot!

I think just the act of putting yourself in promising situations that would contribute to a paranormal experience increases those odds by nature. That being said I had zero paranormal experiences before this one, and have had what I would consider zero since. That's not to say I've not captured a fair amount of evidence of paranormal nature but that different than the paranormal experience. But yes, I think investigating it just naturally would lend to more experiences. This isn't to say that investigating it 'draws' it to you, though. I mean being a deer hunter means you go out into the woods where deer are, but that doesn't mean the deer start showing up at your house. In your shower.

Maybe Brad just finds himself at the right place at the right times.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

I agree I think one the vail is open you are more open to seeing these things that's why children are able to see this they believe what they see still as adults we are conditioned to not trust our senses and be"logical"

Sorry, but I have to call BS here. As a teenager no one pulled me to the side and said, "Hey, all those phantoms and ghosts you're seeing? Those are fake. Stop believing in them and just start ignoring them. "As a parent I didn't have to take a class where I learned to tell my children that all those spooks and specters they see are fake and to discount them as imagination.

I grew up with martial arts and a strong sense of critical thinking, but what I saw is what I saw. I never discredit my kids if they say they saw something but I DO offer alternate explanations and educated them on trying to discover what they saw. I don't let them speculate too far, but my kids don't see anything more or less than what I see.

I think it's a great farse and myth that children see more than adults do as far as the paranormal goes, at least in my entire experience it is. Some of the people most open to experience the paranormal, in my view, are skeptics who truly want to have that experience. Debunkers, on the other hand, would outright have an experience and deny it. That's JUST as bad as having a subtle experience and exaggerating it. Kids need to learn to take what they experience in-full. No less, no more. For instance if they see a flying saucer.....a saucer shaped craft.......then that's what they see. If they see an apparition of grandpa, then that's what they see. We read so much into our experiences it's down-right dangerous, and we need to teach our kids NOT to do that as well as avoid doing it ourselves.

 

[Randall]

I like how you're thinkin' Ufology! but unfortunately you've not asked a question yet that I haven't considered and tried to use to debunk the entire encounter myself. Keep them coming.

1. The true-source of the light was street light approximately 20' in the air. There were no obstructions between the window and the light itself. It was the primary shining through the window. Additionally the light source was approximately an eighth to a quarter of a mile a way.
2. The encounter was experienced on the third floor of the building. It was a straight-drop from the window aside from a small window frame......maybe 3 inches or so.

I looked into purchasing a measuring system utilizing lasers to triangulate and measure distances but such was not cost affective for me, but I did want to know exact distances between my location, the wall, the window, and the light. Of course the one serious variable is exact locations of the other witnesses but, the time has passed for that much detail, unfortunately.

I'm glad you don't mind me asking these questions or take them as some kind of personal challenge. WIth PSI phemnomena, it's not too often that people can communicate on the same wavelength. It's pretty cool that you are willing to share your experience to this level of detail. So since we seem to already be more or less on the same page, it would seem that given the information you provided, we're reducing the possibilities pretty fast. Here are more questions:

1. Did the background lighting on the wall get brighter or dimmer or was it constant?
2. Did the shadow, I'm presuming person, ( correct me if I'm wrong ) change size or shape? Or was it more like a cutout that was panned across the wall?
3. If it changed size and/or shape, did it seem move as if under it's own locomotion ( walking or whatever ) or ( please describe ).
4. Were the shadow edges sharp or blurry?

 

[Jeff Crowell]

I'm glad you don't mind me asking these questions or take them as some kind of personal challenge. WIth PSI phemnomena, it's not too often that people can communicate on the same wavelength. It's pretty cool that you are willing to share your experience to this level of detail. So since we seem to already be more or less on the same page, it would seem that given the information you provided, we're reducing the possibilities pretty fast. Here are more questions:

1. Did the background lighting on the wall get brighter or dimmer or was it constant?
2. Did the shadow, I'm presuming person, ( correct me if I'm wrong ) change size or shape? Or was it more like a cutout that was panned across the wall?
3. If it changed size and/or shape, did it seem move as if under it's own locomotion ( walking or whatever ) or ( please describe ).
4. Were the shadow edges sharp or blurry?

I would say...

1. The lighting across the wall was constant for that area of illumination....where the light poured in from the window.
2. It was a person-shaped shadow. Very defined, very clear. It did not change shape or pose, just position as it "walked' from one side of the illumination to the other. I do not recall seeing leg movement, the shadow was from waist up and moved smoothly, as if a person taking slow, precise steps. There may have been slight arm movement but I do not recall. The arm position was as if it were holding something up to view.
3. See 2. but yes, it did seem to walk/move, of it's own accord. As it moved I was able to track it's movement along with the position and movement of the other people in the area. No one matched either the pose nor direction of motion caused by the shadow.
4. The edges were quite sharp. Well defined. I would say it was the shadow of a male since it was flat chested. On that note it was a profile-shadow, from the side. There were no breasts and hair "appeared" short-cut.

J.

 

[Randall]

Shadow person case ... see below ...

To summarize so far:

• The lighting across the wall was constant for that area of illumination ... where the light poured in from the window.
• The true-source of the light was street light approximately 20' in the air and an eighth to a quarter of a mile a way. It was the primary light shining through the window.
• The lighting across the wall was constant for that area of illumination ... where the light poured in from the window.
• There were no obstructions between observer and the the window on the wall to my left.
• There were no obstructions between the window and the light source outside.
• There were no columns or other obstructions between observer and the visual perception of the shadow.

• The encounter was experienced on the third floor of the building.
• It was a straight-drop from the window aside from a small window frame......maybe 3 inches or so.
• The shadow appeared to be a short haired male waist up side profile.
• Shadow appeared flat to the wall ... 2 dimensional.
• Shadow moved smoothly, as if a person taking slow, precise steps.
• It appeared more "solid" than the other shadows, as if it the source of this particular shadow was very close to the wall and farther from the light source.
• The edges were quite sharp. Well defined Very defined, very clear.
• It did not change shape or pose, just position as it "walked' from one side of the illumination to the other.
• There may have been slight arm movement but I do not recall. It did seem to walk/move, of it's own accord.
• The arm position was as if it were holding something up to view.
• As it moved I was able to track it's movement along with the position and movement of the other people in the area.
• No one else in the room matched either the pose nor direction of motion caused by the shadow.

OK we're building up some detail now.

1. How many floors were above you ( on level 3 ).
2. Was the building occupied or was there anyone else in the building on the floors above you?
3. Did the windows on the floors above you open?
4. Did the building have roof access?

 

[aldo poe]

No I disagree on a societal level we are taught to not believe what we see

 

[Jeff Crowell]

To summarize so far:



OK we're building up some detail now.

1. How many floors were above you ( on level 3 ).
2. Was the building occupied or was there anyone else in the building on the floors above you?
3. Did the windows on the floors above you open?
4. Did the building have roof access?

1. There were four floors + the roof, so one full floor plus the roof above us, two full floors beneath us. The building is a massive warehouse with each floor being approximately half a football field. Sorry, I don't know the exact square-footage but it's extensive.
2. Yes, there were many other people in the building with us but no one else on our floor. We had a total group of approximately 50 individuals, split into 4 groups within the building. Originally my group had around 10 people in it but I'd lost four a few minutes prior to the shadow experience due to a sudden asthma attack that one of the members had. She had to leave with her friends. At the time there were approximately 6 to 7 of us on the third floor itself.
3. The windows didn't open but most of them were broken out and exposed to the elements. In fact the window that the light source in question streamed through was devoid of glass but still had most of it's framework.
4. The build does have roof access above the fourth floor. I, myself, have been up on the roof but"civilians" (non-ghost hunter guests) were not allowed up there due to safety concerns. Even most of my ghost hunting group at the time had never been up there.

 

[Randall]

1. There were four floors + the roof, ...
2. Yes, there were many other people in the building ...
3. The windows didn't open but most of them were broken out and exposed to the elements. ...
4. The build does have roof access above the fourth floor. ...

Thanks again. This is really interesting. I didn't realize so many factors could come into play. Most UFO sightings are fairly simple by comparison. So here are som more questions.

1. Did you take your eyes off the shadow at any time after you first spotted it? If so for how long and where else did you look?
2. Were you using any ghost hunting or PSI investigation equipment? If so did they detect anything?
3. About how far was the window to the wall with the shadow?
4. About how close to scale was the size of the shadow compared to a real person ( like was it a huge big shadow or about the size of an actual person )?
5. You mentioned the window was off to your left. Was your angle to it such that at the time of the observation you could see outside through most of it ... or did you need to walk over to it to investigate after the sighting?
6. Were there any other pylons, columns, stairwells etc. to your left in the middle of the floor space between you and the line between the nearest side of the window and the wall?

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Thanks again. This is really interesting. I didn't realize so many factors could come into play. Most UFO sightings are fairly simple by comparison. So here are som more questions.

1. Did you take your eyes off the shadow at any time after you first spotted it? If so for how long and where else did you look?
2. Were you using any ghost hunting or PSI investigation equipment? If so did they detect anything?
3. About how far was the window to the wall with the shadow?
4. About how close to scale was the size of the shadow compared to a real person ( like was it a huge big shadow or about the size of an actual person )?
5. You mentioned the window was off to your left. Was your angle to it such that at the time of the observation you could see outside through most of it ... or did you need to walk over to it to investigate after the sighting?
6. Were there any other pylons, columns, stairwells etc. to your left in the middle of the floor space between you and the line between the nearest side of the window and the wall?

1. I did take my eyes off of it for a few seconds at a time. Glances back and forth to try to find the source and pin-point the positions of the other witnesses/investigators. Time and again I would look to where the source of the shadow would be, the person casting the shadow, then look back to the shadow itself. It was at the same place every time. When it started moving I locked my eyes on it.
2. I had no ghost hunting equipment on me at the time, just a flashlight but it was turned off and in my hand.
3. The window was approximately 15 feet away from the wall that had the shadow, at an angle (think of a triangle).
4. The scale was normal to a human being, though the position was a little odd (see below.)
5. I could see outside if I turned my head. In fact I was near-perpendicular to the window. After the shadow disappeared I walked over to the window to duplicate it, which I could but I had to be up against the window/wall and I had to crouch down.
6. There were no columns between me and the window, me and the wall, nor the window and the wall. I think the closest column was behind me to the left.

I'd have to slightly disagree that UFO sightings are more simple, I was just in hyper-observation mode. It's more like most UFO witnesses don't snap-shot the environment as much as I was able to. Also, why I remember so much about the environment, I'd been there upwards of 7 times prior and 2 times afterwards. That was a major benefit.
J.

 

[Randall]

1. I did take my eyes off of it for a few seconds at a time. Glances back and forth to try to find the source and pin-point the positions of the other witnesses/investigators. Time and again I would look to where the source of the shadow would be, the person casting the shadow, then look back to the shadow itself. It was at the same place every time. When it started moving I locked my eyes on it.
2. I had no ghost hunting equipment on me at the time, just a flashlight but it was turned off and in my hand.
3. The window was approximately 15 feet away from the wall that had the shadow, at an angle (think of a triangle).
4. The scale was normal to a human being, though the position was a little odd (see below.)
5. I could see outside if I turned my head. In fact I was near-perpendicular to the window. After the shadow disappeared I walked over to the window to duplicate it, which I could but I had to be up against the window/wall and I had to crouch down.
6. There were no columns between me and the window, me and the wall, nor the window and the wall. I think the closest column was behind me to the left.

I'd have to slightly disagree that UFO sightings are more simple, I was just in hyper-observation mode. It's more like most UFO witnesses don't snap-shot the environment as much as I was able to. Also, why I remember so much about the environment, I'd been there upwards of 7 times prior and 2 times afterwards. That was a major benefit.

J.

I guess it depends on the case. But typically we don't see UFOs indoors and have to determine if they are shadows. We're usually looking directly at them in line of sight, which simplifies things. So one last set of questions regarding the environment and conditions for now.

1. About how far away from the wall with the window in it were you?
2. About how far away from the closest edge of the window were you?
3. About how big was the window?

After this ... if you don't mind, I'll probably have a few that are more interpretive. The information you've provided so far continues to narrow down the mundane explanations.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Ugh....okay, here-goes.

1. I was approximately 15 feet away from the window. Maybe 18 or so, in truth as I'm somewhat bad at measuring based on "eye-balling" it. That's one of the reasons why I wanted the laser-measuring device....to pin-point the distance and angles but never got around to saving up that kind of cash for such an endeavor.
2. The window ledge stuck out I would say about an inch from the window itself, so about the same distance as above. It was a brick wall and the window frame itself was fashioned from brick. Yes, this is a very old building.
3. The window was approximately 10 feet tall or maybe a little more. Approximately 4 feet wide. These are big windows.

Some additional information based solely on memory...

• The next window in line was boarded up and darkened. No light was coming through.
• The next window back from the light source was half boarded up 'toward' the shadow wall so the light coming in from that window was casting behind us.
• The windows were to my left. The rest of the floor spanned off to the right several tens of feet, segmented by rows of steel girder-columns.
• There was a very small (almost classified as a small-person) woman in front of me and the wall where the shadow was. The shadow appeared to the right of her from my perspective. She had a pony-tail hairstyle and was not holding any objects. The shadow was (as stated earlier) short-haired had no breasts such as this woman did, and was not in the same position as the woman. Additionally the woman was at the wrong angle to the window to cast the shadow.

As far as UFO sightings being more simplistic; I can think of a barrage of questions very similar to these that you could/should ask a UFO witness. Just some things to consider....

1. What was the time of day?
2. What was the time of year?
3. What was the weather/cloud cover?
4. What was the position of the Sun? Where was it in relation to the UFO?
5. In what relation to other objects was the UFO....such as mountains, trees, or man-made structures?
6. Were there other witnesses?
7. Was there any triangulation by the witnesses in relation to some objects in the area, such as with the trees/mountains/man-made objects?
8. Did the object touch-down, or how close did it come to the ground/witnesses/other objects, etc...

I'm sure I could come up with more but as with all unknowns the more information the better.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

I wanted to make a clarification about the shadow story UFOlogy and I have been tossing around. I'm not sure where I read it but something was implied about the source of the shadow. I need to be clear when I say the shadow had no source. When I duplicated the position and movement of the shadow after it had "un" manifested I knew where a physical source would have been and there was no one/nothing there at the time of the appearance.

Additionally, as physics tells us, 'something' should have been blocking the light to create a shadow, but this did not appear to be the case. Instead I think that the shadow was the entity/being/ghost/what-not. Yup, here's where I make the crazy, presumptive claim we all hate, but I believe that the 2-dimensional shadow 'thing' I saw WAS the actual entity, not a secondary image of something else that a shadow typically represent.

There.

I said my crazy thing for the year.

Clump me in with the rest of the crazies. I'll go willingly.

 

[exo_doc]

Gene and Chris, I just finished listening to the Brad Steiger episode for the second time, and this one was a real winner to me. I have always liked Mr. Steiger's work and have several of his books, but I had no idea that the man was so deep in thoughts and philosophy. I was especially fascinated by the discussions about the possible unltimate reality of things, and how some mysteries are just beyond us.
Mr. Steiger's feelings that we are still evolving and we have yet to see our full potential really hit a chord with me too. It's one thing to think something, but to hear someone else say it was a thrill.

Excellent show guys!

 

[Randall]

Ugh....okay, here-goes.

1. I was approximately 15 feet away from the window. Maybe 18 or so, in truth as I'm somewhat bad at measuring based on "eye-balling" it. That's one of the reasons why I wanted the laser-measuring device....to pin-point the distance and angles but never got around to saving up that kind of cash for such an endeavor.
2. The window ledge stuck out I would say about an inch from the window itself, so about the same distance as above. It was a brick wall and the window frame itself was fashioned from brick. Yes, this is a very old building.

Sorry if my questions are getting boring. There is still some confusion about one of the distances: I was trying to establish the distance you were from the wall ( with the window in it ) not the distance to the window. So you were maybe 15 - 18 feet feet from the window and ? number of feet from the wall ( with the window in it )?

 

[Randall]

Ugh....okay, here-goes ...

Perhaps my last question will get answered at some other time. Given the answers so far, it seems that a hoax cannot be ruled out yet. By this I don't mean that the experience or story is a hoax, but that you may have been the victim of a hoax.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Sorry if my questions are getting boring. There is still some confusion about one of the distances: I was trying to establish the distance you were from the wall ( with the window in it ) not the distance to the window. So you were maybe 15 - 18 feet feet from the window and ? number of feet from the wall ( with the window in it )?

Not boring. I know you're trying to establish a baseline, it's fine.

I was essentially perpendicular to the window with the wall, so the distances would be the same. The window was a tad behind me, maybe a foot back along the wall if I would have stuck my arm straight that direction. So if I would have stuck my left arm out and a bit behind me, I would have been pointing to the window. My right arm goes out straight and about 10 degrees to the right and there was the light cast by the window...and where the shadow appeared.

We need a 'draw' feature on the forums. LOL! But does that clarify a bit?

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Perhaps my last question will get answered at some other time. Given the answers so far, it seems that a hoax cannot be ruled out yet. By this I don't mean that the experience or story is a hoax, but that you may have been the victim of a hoax.

Being a critical thinker I don't rule anything out, but if it was hoaxed it was extremely elaborate and I saw no evidence of it after the encounter. I was very familiar with the environment.....had been there numerous times before and knew the building very well. I've been there twice since, too. Immediately after the sighting I went around the area, sweeping it, trying to debunk it. About the only way it could have been hoaxed, that I can determine, is if I was unaware of someone standing near the window and moving past it during the encounter, whom I failed to take into account. Considering the encounter was long enough for me to inspect the environment that direction, then looking back, I doubt that but it could still have happened I suppose, just not sure how.

As far as 'me' hoaxing it, lying or such, well, all it is, is a story and, admittedly, no one on here really 'knows' me so I guess any doubt in that regard is also understandable.

J.

 

[Randall]

Being a critical thinker I don't rule anything out, but if it was hoaxed it was extremely elaborate and I saw no evidence of it after the encounter. I was very familiar with the environment.....had been there numerous times before and knew the building very well. I've been there twice since, too. Immediately after the sighting I went around the area, sweeping it, trying to debunk it. About the only way it could have been hoaxed, that I can determine, is if I was unaware of someone standing near the window and moving past it during the encounter, whom I failed to take into account. Considering the encounter was long enough for me to inspect the environment that direction, then looking back, I doubt that but it could still have happened I suppose, just not sure how.

As far as 'me' hoaxing it, lying or such, well, all it is, is a story and, admittedly, no one on here really 'knows' me so I guess any doubt in that regard is also understandable.

J.

Well ... first off, again, I'm not suggesting you personally hoaxed anything. I have no reason or evidence to propose that, and in the absence of any such evidence, I think it would also be disrespectful. However I don't think it would require anything too complex for a third party unknown to you to hoax the event. For example, given the height of the building, the absence of glass in windows, the shape of the shadow, and the presence of other people in the building, it seems to me that someone on the floor above or on the roof could simply dangle a cardboard cutout in front of the window on your floor using some very thin clear fishing line. Such a hoax would be simple to create and to cover up. It could be done by a single person who came in and separated themselves from one of the groups, or by some independent prankster. With a little planning and practice it could be made to look pretty convincing. Are there any factors about the incident that we've not covered that could rule out this possibility?