Abduction Narratives with Alien Technology

[Burnt State]

Still hard to totally dismiss the Cortile case- if we are to believe that Hopkins was in touch with Janet Kimball, a witness of the event while driving across the bridge. For one person (L Cortile) to have played Hopkins like that, hard to wrap my head around. Of course, the same could be said for the case itself, as presented by Hopkins.

Unfortunately, given the other features of the Cortile case, the package with third party witnesses and drawings whose enveope address appears to be in Cortile's handwriting, the lack of proof of the existence of the CIA kidnapping dudes, the diplomat that's used as an excuse to not press abduction charges on the CIA dude if that's what he did and her photo is supposed proof of it etc.You can always discount Hopkins wife's post-mortem testimony that damns him, all his work, his supposed "relationships" with female abduction experiencers, but still, I find most of the Abduction Phenomena as constructed by Hopkins & Jacobs to be not entirely legit or at least constructed on top of mostly shaky ground.

I think another interesting litmus test for such phenomena is how the inner circle reacts to it. For example, we get most excited here on the Paracast forum when the crop circle thing rears its head and the crowd is split -- a war of voices ensues. Personally, i think these actual designs in fields, not landing traces, but actual designs, are all human artwork and we shouldn't give it more excitement than that.

Similarly, the Cortile case and other abduction narratives often elicit very strong reactions within the UFO community where there are those that will fight tooth and nail for the case and others who will dismiss it out of hand immediately. What's interesting about the Cortile case is the incredible volume that was turned up on both pro and con sides by leading researchers in the field who went to war over it. Like the Emma Woods case, there seems to be these recurring issues of older male researchers, female abductee experiencer and then those that would defend and attack the conclusions of older male AP researcher.

On one hand these guys are pioneers in the field, did a lot of new work, created new paradigms etc. but as we continue to examine and explore the abduction narrative it's cases like Cortile's and the battle that unfolded that leave us armchair folk scratching our heads. In this specific case, even one of my personal faves, Jerry Clark, decided he was going to go to bat for Hopkins - he was a friend after all. Though Clark counts Jacobs as a friend as well he is on the Paracast record as identifying that he personally believes that Jacobs' notion of hybrid babies and imminent alien takeover is completely ridiculous. So one abduction narrative could be real based on flimsy evidence, just because Budd says so, and that's enough for a hardened, hardcore researcher like Clark to defend when the fire is turned up on his friend? For me, such shenanigans tell me that there's something not right here within the community at the upper levels.

Mufon's selling of Abduction testimony to Bigelow, The Carpenter Affair etc. all make me feel that there are many, many sides to this abduction phenomena, and most of the hijinks involved appear to have human features. Then there are some stories, some with more evidence than others, that really make your head spin.

I don't think that Cortile played Budd so much as there was some collaboration of a kind taking place, maybe some unspoken agreements that gave Hopkins a final big case to hang his hat on, was this his last big source of revenue, did he fear personal circumstances with a divorce looming, is that why Clark came to the rescue along with others? Lots of unanswered idle speculations here, and more of that than good evidence it seems to me.

 

[Burnt State]

I need to mull some of that over, @Tyger , but i think that the core truth and paradox you utter is that "the 'aliens' have no ability to exist unless we give them the capacity to exist in our world. From all that I gather they are actually quite weak."

I firmly believe that our own powers of belief, biology and perceptual apparatus complicate and conspire together with the alien phenomenon. But then we also have these hardcore and soft evidence cases of incredible powers being displayed, to turn off human electrical systems, and overpower human will and human technology with ease. They seem to be both in and out of this world, and perhaps originate from a place that we can't go to, see or even exist in. So is there a weakness there and an incredible power? Or are we just dreaming, misconnecting our evidentiary dots?

 

[DissectionStalker]

I felt as I was reading through the story that there was some definite mental decompensation by Zanfretta as time goes on and then faded away I suppose - a momentary case of alien abduction across a handful of years - seems to be closer of six or seven encounters...

I must tell you I totally lost any confidence in this story, when I read these two items:

1) Nevertheless, the creatures insisted he accept it, informing him that he was to give the sphere to a man of whose name he had never heard before, noted American scientist and UFO researcher DR. J. ALLEN HYNEK. Zanfretta, for reasons only clear to him, claims that instead of giving this prize to the now deceased Hynek, he hid the object somewhere in the hills near Genoa.

AND, also...

2) Against all odds, Zanfretta managed to vanish yet again on August 13, 1980. But this time, he was under close observation and was found before the aliens could contact him. This was the end of his ordeal...at least until recently, when the now long retired security guard claimed the extraterrestrials reinitiated contact. To what end remains to be seen.

Imo, it seems over time this story is delusional and grandiose, because the abductions just go on and on 6-7 times and now decades later "contact again" ? This is past the point of incredulity. Also, the aliens are telling him to give something to Hynek...??? Are you serious??? The friggin Aliens can deliver that themselves!!! It's essentially insane. That screams hoax.

So, he certainly had a break with reality several times. Please note how The Military is involved along the way too! Very suspect.

Footprints can be faked, imprints of landing craft can be faked, heating a car is weird, but it can be done by the car heater, microwave [military], or other means. Could he have been attacked and had a DMT-like event in the middle of the night??? Yes, it's possible. He was investigating a break-in too, so he was lured in or surprised his attackers. Being knocked-out can really screw-up one's memory of what really happened. He probably believed it did happen, but he was alone. He could be the victim of an elaborate hoax too. He was attacked possibly by four people; he saw 4 flashlights. It could be a human in a "Bigfoot" Alien disguise for all we know. Green seems Syfy-ish from that era too.

We don't know the exact details about the heat. There's nothing more than what someone said they said by reporters??? Maybe there are police reports? The military can do just about anything at night if there's some involvement from them. Has he been making money about it?

I don't pretend to know any answers, I don't, but I just can't believe with one and two above. Finally, shooting at "seeing a very strange, cloud-like object floating" could be anything.

 

[Tyger]

I need to mull some of that over, @Tyger , but i think that the core truth and paradox you utter is that "the 'aliens' have no ability to exist unless we give them the capacity to exist in our world. From all that I gather they are actually quite weak."

I firmly believe that our own powers of belief, biology and perceptual apparatus complicate and conspire together with the alien phenomenon. But then we also have these hardcore and soft evidence cases of incredible powers being displayed, to turn off human electrical systems, and overpower human will and human technology with ease. They seem to be both in and out of this world, and perhaps originate from a place that we can't go to, see or even exist in. So is there a weakness there and an incredible power? Or are we just dreaming, misconnecting our evidentiary dots?

What are the 'incredible powers'? Turning off human electrical systems is a hint (to me) of the phenomenon being something afoot from 'sub-levels' - if working with that paradigm (and here my instinct is to go gingerly as that paradigm is obscure for most people, and without actual experience and knowledge of such, 'castles in the air' can too easily be fashioned). However, electro-magnetic events would jive with the 'sub-levels' (within that paradigm).

Overcoming human will is quite another matter. We can be frozen in terror, no question. We can be turned into gibbering idiots in the face of both what we cannot make sense of (an event defying our senses' ability to process fast enough - an on-coming tsunami), and what we can (torture). So I'm not sure the undermining of the human will has to be 'otherworldly'. When the person is put into overload, trying to make sense of an event where the sensory input is either happening too fast and/or too outside of the familiar, the interpretation can be jumbled.

I am reminded of a (true) story that got folded into a criminal crime series episode. It's a bit gruesome so be warned. As an example of how the memory can adjust in the face of sensory overload (and a feeling of being under threat) I will reference the unpleasant memory of a child recalling it's mother being killed. Too young to understand what they were seeing, they interpreted the bloody scene as their mother having long flowing red hair. This remained the memory even though the mother had dark hair. The child adjusted the memory of disjunctive images to account for the 'red flowing hair' as her mother wearing a red 'wig' and 'dancing' with the stranger. The child took the sensory overload and placed it into recognizable categories - 'hair' and 'dancing'. This remained the embedded memory until as an adult the person was told the truth regarding how their mother had died. Up to that moment the person had thought their mother had abandoned them, running away with the stranger their mother had been 'dancing' with.

When the human system goes into shock, trying to deal with unfamiliar, startling and (perceived) threatening events, interpretations should aways be subject to careful analysis. In this case of Zanfretta I think he had a trauma, and interpreted it as best he could, with the concepts at his disposal. Once the larger societal hysteria over the event ensued, he could have been caught in what he saw as social pressures and thus began some 'spinning'. My impression of him is that he wanted to please.

 

[Burnt State]

@Tyger, I think there's a lot of astute reasoning that you're presenting there. Whenever I watch lightning, northern lights or the Hessdalen lights' video I am amazed at what electromagnetism can do. Energy in concentrated and unique forms produce stunning visual affects. However, I don't think we get those really wildly weird narratives from people near or struck by lightning.

I'm definitely there for traumatic, hallucinogenic and disturbing events being redefined & reinterpreted by the human mind. We've got a finite precious little bubble of grey matter enclosed in our noggins and patterns do seem to emerge. It seems if you put in certain inputs you get certain outputs a la Pressinger's third eye experiences through his brain stimulus device.

And I don't think the otherworldly is always the answer, but in terms of where the mind goes/sees/experiences during such moments is another matter. I think I'm there for brain chemistry having a major role in all of this. But evidence of external forces and objects, including those experienced by witnesses who combine personal testimony with physical evidence, is suggestive of an altered reality, of a non human technology, and possibly non-human intelligence at work. I know it sounds unreal, but the door is open for some of these options. How substantial these things are and their point of origin: both still are in question. We do appear to be part of it all some way.

Is it all just a whisper in the night, some kind of natural magic that we misinterpret? I don't really know. I'm just drawing lines between different ideas to see where that takes me.

I'm assuming you mean Zanfretta and not Cortile (which is a case built on only flimsy testimony IMHO). Yes, his experience is extreme and he negotiated it the best he could with the tools he had. The boot imprints, reports of heat, the lights in the sky beamed below on chasing police cars, all this appears to be representing an incursion not just into Zanftetta's mind but into our reality through his mind and without it.

It could all be reporter confabulation & media hype, as Dissectionstalker pointed out elsewhere - all these cases are subject to the same manipulations to any story that is repeated by anyone. His sodium pentathol recounts are all suggestive of his belief in the story. And all is consistent with other evidence and witnesses to evidence and other aspects. Could it all be just a drummed up story, like the airships from the turn of the century, just to sell papers? Yes, that's also possible, I suppose.

 

[Tyger]

I'm assuming you mean Zanfretta and not Cortile.

Ooops! Correct. Thanks for catching that - I have corrected the post.