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What does Russia and Rummy have in common ??

pong

Groupthink Must Die
Is Donald a riddle? I don't think so. He's a confirmed neocon globalist who has contempt for most of us "citizens." In 2001 he could have shown us the videos of what slammed into the Pentagon. He chose not to. We don't have the need to know.
 

Wade

FeralNormal master
In an interview with the documentarian, Errol Morris, the reporter asked him if while doing this documentary he ever consideted if Rumsfield was guilty of smoke and mirrors and just plain obfuscation or actually believed in what he was saying and Errol replied "both" and even then, on the same talking point. I always felt the same, I thought many times that Rummy was trying to convince HIMSELF that was he was saying was truthful and coherent.

So yeah, while I agree in spirit with what you said I also felt that he also had to justify his actions to himself in order to better sell it to the American public
 

bbridges

Paranormal Maven
In an interview with the documentarian, Errol Morris, the reporter asked him if while doing this documentary he ever consideted if Rumsfield was guilty of smoke and mirrors and just plain obfuscation or actually believed in what he was saying and Errol replied "both" and even then, on the same talking point. I always felt the same, I thought many times that Rummy was trying to convince HIMSELF that was he was saying was truthful and coherent.

So yeah, while I agree in spirit with what you said I also felt that he also had to justify his actions to himself in order to better sell it to the American public
Spooky, is that you? I didn't realize...He's another anachronism, writhing in the throes of a failed vision of Empire. Exit, stage (exteme) right. They fought to become the thing they fought...
 

Wade

FeralNormal master
Errol Morris Says He's Tired of Interviewing People | Film | Los Angeles | Los Angeles News and Events | LA Weekly

@bbridges, Look at the last sentence in the 2nd paragraph. That pretty much sums up the point I was trying to make but didn't quite flesh out in the thread title...but I did subsequently mention.


"...Savoring bullshit — especially first-class bullshit, like that from Iraq War spinmeister Donald Rumsfeld, the star of Morris's new documentary, The Unknown Known — isn't about swatting down Rumsfeld's half-truths and evasions. Others have mission accomplished that. Morris lets Rumsfeld bluster on, listening for an answer to the question that has obsessed his entire filmmaking career: When does a liar get so good at deception that he even convinces himself?..."

"...Between that and Morris' liberal politics, it's hard not to wonder why Rumsfeld would agree to an interview in the same room where Morris questioned Abu Ghraib's cardboard villain, Lynndie England. Why give the filmmaker unprecedented access to the 20,000-plus memos written during his five-year stint in the George W. Bush administration?

For one of two reasons: Either Rumsfeld is convinced he did the right thing, or he's convinced he can convince us that he did..."

For whatever reason I am fascinated with people who are able to commit acts...or enable them...and then be in complete denial about their level of involvement. From Charles Manson to O.J. Simpson to Rumsfield. I don't think it just comes down to simple out and out lying, well i guess it does initially, but there are people who are able to consciously lie about things to cover up and then get so deeply caught up in it that they believe their own lie. Or maybe its just a matter of painting yourself into a corner. but whatever the reason, it becomes a self propagating lie. This isn't a new phenomena of course but it is a quality that I find myself really interested in, and it is a mystery to me of how they are able to pull it off to themselves

I'm no choirboy but certainly wouldn't put myself in to the same class as the previuosly mentioned people but I can't lie to save my life. I break like a piece of pencil lead. I have no poker face. The people that can pull this off are fascinating to me, its a mystery to me. I don't think it comes down to diagnosing (spl?) said people into a certain "condition" i.e. being a sociopath etc. as the three people I mentioned above all took different life paths.

As Rummy himself might point out, if you believe in the lie then is it a lie?
 
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manxman

Paranormal Adept
they can order atrocities because they never see it in real life, it's a mind game, and death's are just a statistic, sure they see the result's of their orders/black op's, they have no conscience, and they are feared, their true storie's never get told, because the price of telling is death, one way or another, but dead is dead, you cannot let just let one worm out of a tin, so the tin stays firmly shut, and death is the price of opening the tin.

when all are dead in 100 years time, and all files are un-sealed, and the truth can out without fear of reprisal, this 50 year period of american history will be very dark indeed.
 
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Charlie Prime

Paranormal Adept
This isn't a new phenomena of course but it is a quality that I find myself really interested in, and it is a mystery to me of how they are able to pull it off to themselves.
Rumsfeld operates using the political philosophy of Professor Leo Strauss. It's a philosophy based on Plato which states that an elite, wise ruling class must rule the unsophisticated masses by telling them noble lies for their own good. This frees them from all bonds of honesty and morality.

Today we see this philosophy frequently expressed on this forum this way...



Strauss wrote: “Because mankind is intrinsically wicked, he has to be governed,” ..“Such governance can only be established, however, when men are united - and they can only be united against other people.” Leaders must always provide an enemy."

A good place to begin studying this philosophy is here: The Noble Lie

Then look into Strauss' writings.
 

Wade

FeralNormal master
Thanks for that Charlie Prime that certainly does look like a worthy consideration. I'll take a look at these links after I finish work today. But without having yet read it I have to wonder if this noble lie concept apllied to O.J.? I am convinced he did indeed kill Nicole but I'm also equally convinced that he thought itself innocent... after time...and he must of worked his way up to that point, initially realizing he did kill her and made an ill concieved attempt to escspe...the infamous white Bronco...but after time being convinced that he didn't do the crime.

The fact that one can compartmentalize their ethical/ moral system, regardless of the agenda or philisophical system is intriguing to me.
 
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SoCalGNX

SoCalGNX
Rumsfield also is behind tamiflu, which does not work for all kinds of flu despite much hype. Makes me wonder if various flu strains are engineered to bring him money. Rumsfield, Cheney (and Cheney spawn now running for office) as well as people like the Koch Bros. always make me wonder about the rate of psychopathy among the ultra rich.
 

Wade

FeralNormal master
Of course after having posted the above using O.J. as an example I now remember that a few years back O.J. did author "If I did it" which was pretty self serving and a slap in the face to the Brown family and sounds like an admission of guilt (by proxy) so I suppose I was wrong about O.J. 's state of mind but still there is no denying that such Orwellian concepts as doublethink could be at play thanks for jump starting my memory.
 
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