Eteponge
Skilled Investigator
I'm currently in a big debate with a strong ETH ONLY Supporter, who believes that ETH universally explains *every single* UFO sighting and experience in existence. And that all other UFO Explanations fall apart but ETH.
To get an idea of what they are claiming, here are some excerpts ...
To get an idea of what they are claiming, here are some excerpts ...
I provided various anomalous cases that suggest more than ETH could be going on (the Skin Walker Ranch UFOs, the woman who saw a Star Trek Enterprise flying upside down, the guy who saw the George Adamski UFO and knew Adamski is a hoax, USOs as possibly indicating Cryptoterrestrials under the ocean, the two Bentwaters Rendlesham Forest eyewitnesses claiming the occupants were time travelers, cases where people describe the same UFO different or others present couldn't see it, the obvious connection between Fairy Lore and Alien Abductions, that Alien Abductees can't remember going to the bathroom, etc) but all we rejected thus so ...Unfortunately, these alternative explanations consist of too many unknowns to be viable.
Yes, we now have good reason to accept the existence of other dimensions(string theory) but we have no idea what kind of life forms would exist in other dimensions. According to Kaku, such life would not be of a physical nature. Even conventional esoteric traditions confirm that life in higher planes is non-physical. Therefore they would have no need to fly about in physical machines in their plane. Why then would they suddenly have physical machines in the physical plane?
The unknowns involved in the human time travellers theory is whether at it is possible for humans to go back in time. The best theory in support of this multiple world theory, but this theory is not proven itself, it is simply one interpretation to explain the wavefunction collapse in quantum physics, because it refuses to accept that consciousness collapses the wavefunction. However the later interpretation is the most simplest and is the prevaling one in quantum physics.
The unknowns involved in the cryptoterrestrial theory is the obvious unknowns of why they are hidden, why have we not detected them, and how can they survive down there and why don't they just come up here. I personally believe in the Naga beings that are said to inhabit the subterranian cities, but I have to set that aside, because of the lack of evidence.
The unknowns involved in the psychic manifestation theory of UFO's is how it is at all possible that the mind would manifest a physical machine that flies of its own accord and is capable of intelligent behaviour.
Therefore because of the many unknonwns involved in these alternative paranormal explanations they are not viable. On the other hand the ETH does not have any unknowns, because it is a known fact that life happens on planets capable of sustaining them. It is also known through estimation that there is staggering amount of earth-like planets in the universe. Finally, it is also known that intelligent life develops machines to travel, such as space craft to travel in space. Physical intelligent beings are technological beings.
Therefore in UFO cases where we clearly are witnessing physical machines, controlled by intelligent beings, it is clear there is a physical explanation. They are techological beings, and therefore they exist in the physical world. As it is clear that their level of technology far outstripps our level of technology, it is clear they belong to a domain where technology is far in advance of our own. It then easy to conclude that they belong to another planet in our universe. The ETH is therefore the best and simplest explanation for the generic UFO.
Now, in UFO's where we have a mix of physical and psychic facts, such as in alien abduction cases which overlap with demons, elves napping souls at night, we have to be discerning here. Clearly, in some of these stories it is not the body which is being napped, but the soul. In other words the kidnappers are spiritual entities. In the case of alien abductions, it in fact the body being napped, and they are usually escorted into a UFO(physical craft) suggesting these kidnappers are physical entities.
Any other cases or arguments I may have missed? I explained that I am not debating against the ETH, only that cases exist which suggest more may be going on than simply ETH, this was rejected over and over by this individual.When
ufologists start to take these explanations as equal with the ETH, it conflates the phenomena
of UFO's with spirits, time travellers, big foot, vampires and werewolves. I would be the
last person to say none of these entities exist, but for the serious and rational investigator of
UFO's by conflating all these things, ufology loses a lot of credibility and seems completely credulous.
In order to be taken more seriously I think ufology needs to stick with the ETH, because the ETH
is within the realms of possibility. On the other hand time travel, parallel dimensions, and crypto-
terrestial like reptillians, werewolves, vampires is still within the realm of fiction, and
in need of evidence. They need to be dealt with separately and not confused with ufos.
Regarding other dimensions and whether extradimensional beings would be technological beings
using machines. According to Kaku, dimensions above our own dimensions would
be existing at a higher energy frequency that the laws of physics and the lifeforms would be
of a completely different order, they would be of higher vibrational frequency. What we understood
from physical is the extended, divisible world of space-time. If we go beyond the event horizon
of space and time, then necessarily we enter into a dimension that is outside of space and time, where
space and time do not operate or null space-time. The esoteric traditions agree that beyond physical
space time, time no longer exists and this plane of reality is described as astral, that the spiritual
traditions call the 5th dimension. Here there is no space and time, and no gravity, one can travel
instantly to any location by merely willing it, materialise anything by merely thinking it. Reality here
is super-fluidic. There is no need for technology here or machines because there are no laws of space
and time . As Kaku suggests life here is certainly of a different order, it is not
physical, but spiritual(angels, gods, demons etc)
It is for this reason that I have to rule out that the generic UFO of a physical flying machine of being of
extradimensional origin. The non-generic UFO which appears to be non physical or ghostly is not really
a UFO then, but it is other phenomena mistaken to be a UFO.
On time traveller explanation. I was quite optimistic when you said that Many worlds interpretation
has been proven right, only to be let down when you revealed that it is simply a mathematical explanation
offered by some new Oxford researcher who claim "they can" explain many worlds theory. To be honest I do
not like many worlds interpretation, because it is bizarre and illogical. It suggests that the universe actually
splits into a copy of itself with every choice we make. This leads to the absurd conclusion that the copy
-universe only begins to exist from the moment we made the choice and did not exist before it. Thus one
universe would be the original with a full history before the split, and another universe would be a copy with
no history before the split.
The best explanation by which we do not need to multiply entities unnecessarily is Wigner's consciousness
theory of the wavefunction collapse. It is not simply not possible for the wavefunction to collapse itself,
it only collapses on observation, because the entire quantum system is entangled. The only entity that is
not entangled is consciousness itself which is what allows the collapse to take place.
On cryptotesstrial explanation. USO's does not not require the cryptoterrestrial explanation, it can still be
explained by the ETH. Although a USO may seem to emerge from the ocean this does not mean it originated
there. It is also possible that they have an underground base from which they emerge. Now suppose these bases
were thousands of years old would they qualify as cryptoterrestrial? By then should we give them citizenship status? lol
On psychic manifestation explanation. Seeing the starship enterprise flying about or any science fiction craft can be
explained as a hallucination, unless there is evidence to show that it was a real physical craft. If it was possible for ones
collective imagination to manifest physically, then by now our world should have been taken over by dragons, giants, and
talking trees(LOTR) lol