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Tracking mystery helicopters?


Mr. James

Paranormal Novice
Chris,

I am in the middle of your book right now, so if this is answered please forgive me in advance.

Has there been any attempt to classify and track the reported helicopters? What I mean is an effort by you or another researcher to help witnesses positively identify the helicopter types, by showing them flashcards or pictures of various types of helicopters to see if they can identify general models or airframe types?

It struck me that if we can tie down rough design types (actualy model families as opposed to "military") then we could possibly trace origins. My reasoning is that most helicopters are traded or sold from one government branch to another, and also from one contractor to another. Even with the practice of replacing tail numbers and falsifying log books, you cannot change the model of a helicopter.

Essentially, I'm looking for stats like 32% were bell 47, 44% Bell UH-1, 20% UH-60, 4% unknown in 1983 within a 500 mile geographic region.

Does this data exist? Can it be used to help locate likely fleets and therefore shell companies and private contactors? It would be less than accurate, but knowing who owns what might help.
 
Chris,

I am in the middle of your book right now, so if this is answered please forgive me in advance.

Has there been any attempt to classify and track the reported helicopters? What I mean is an effort by you or another researcher to help witnesses positively identify the helicopter types, by showing them flashcards or pictures of various types of helicopters to see if they can identify general models or airframe types?...Essentially, I'm looking for stats like 32% were bell 47, 44% Bell UH-1, 20% UH-60, 4% unknown in 1983 within a 500 mile geographic region...Does this data exist? Can it be used to help locate likely fleets and therefore shell companies and private contactors? It would be less than accurate, but knowing who owns what might help.
Tom Adams compiled a list of 300 or so documented reports of helicopters reported in and around mutilation sites and produced a small, self published book titled: The Choppers and the Choppers. It is very hard to find and is considered to be extremely "rare." I have a copy, David Perkins has a copy, possibly LMH and Tommy Bland and I'm sure there are a few copies floating around out there, but not many. There is a project underway by Theo Pajams in Holland to digitally reproduce all of Adams' Stigma and Crux Magazines that he published in the 1970-80s covering the mute waves, and I think he mentioned that Choppers and the Choppers would be digitized as well. In the choppers book, most of the sighting reports have a description of the type of craft, although many of the descriptions are rather generic as to type. It's pretty amazing the variety of descriptions of colors and types. Many (if not most) were NOT military style, but Bell Helicopters of all different types & colors...
 
That makes sense for a variety of reasons. Civilian ops are easy cover and offer deniability. I "know" several people that either currently do or did work for various private companies that generally only have 1 or 2 customers. the sourcing of aircraft and parts in this area is dubious at best because often a company may own 5 aircraft on paper, and canabalize all to get a working two. Then you add the options of temporary markings and falsified logbooks, flight plans, etc.. No questions are asked by the FAA as long as a veneer of legitimacy is maintained. If your an FAA or airport employee, you tend to be aware that we don't ask too many questions about "cia air" or Southern Air Transport (which is now defunct I believe).


So am I to understand that choppers and the choppers is the only attempt at this? Is aircraft identification not sought as a standard question by most researchers?

Would a set of current aircraft identity cards be of some use?

I'm probably beating a dead horse here, so I apologize. I just know the average joe can't identify an aircraft worth a darn most of the time, and I can't help but feel a current dataset of reported types in regions grouped by time period would appear to be extremely useful. Historical data from the 70's is good, but what about 2012-14?
 
Interesting topic. I didn't know about Tom Adams' work on this. I don't know how far I would trust the accuracy of helicopter identification by random observers. I'm a bit of an aircraft watcher for several reasons, and I'm not sure how well I would score on a test of my ability to discern types beyond general terms, even from a sighting I had a week earlier. That's not to say I think it's a waste of time to try, just that it would at best be of questionable accuracy.

On the topic of helicopters, in the 90s, when I first read about the "black helicopters" in conspiracy lore, I happened to live near an active air base. The National Guard often flew their choppers around on the weekends and at other times, doing maneuvers near my home. From a quarter mile away, they were for all intents and purposes "black helicopters". They were in fact, I think, very dark green with low contrast markings. The conspiracy lore was full of tales of "unmarked black helicopters" in nefarious pursuits, sometimes even at night!

Having said all that, I have had some amusing and even disturbing encounters with helicopters, mostly around the time I was first taking a serious interest in UFO matters and having my own anomalous experiences. As I have mentioned here and other places, I "pushed back" in a couple of ways and was rewarded with increasingly weird experiences. One day it occurred to me that the situation resembled a playful teen teasing a cat with a laser pointer. That was the end of my experiences with the phenomenon. It just evaporated. I don't miss it.
 
I believe that if a witness is presented with 3 or 4 pics of each major model in different aspects of flight (i.e... diferent views and distances, and 1 or 2 landed) most people could identify with an 80% accuracy the type. There are only about 40-50 major models that we would need to present. It would be like presenting a murder witness with a line-up of likely suspects. You could design it as an app. where a person browses pics and selects ones that appear similar... after they have chosen 10 or twelve, you should have a reasonable assumption of accuracy just by the law of averages, if nothing else. Sure, might take 15 minutes to do (For many reasons I would prefer it to be shorter) but I think it might help.

Consider the Bell Jet Ranger..... there are literally hundreds of models, but its distinct enough to identify it as a jet ranger model. Assuming that you get a wide enough sampling from witnesses, the aggregates should start to reinforce each other as opposed to confusing it. A simple graph plot can tell us if what is being reported is a realistic reporting or fanciful misidentification. Now granted, we would need a sampling much larger than 300... I would prefer 750-1000, and timing of event and location are paramount. With luck, we would see the fleets evolve over time as older craft are replaced with newer, and we might be able to gain some insight into geographic regions that certain ones operate in. Armed with that, you could compare ownership records for various models that may or may not be currently certified for flight.

The info is out there, its just going to be a real hard brick wall to bang our head with. Even with a possible multiple party source for this, their should still be the patterns there if we dig.
 
...So am I to understand that choppers and the choppers is the only attempt at this? Is aircraft identification not sought as a standard question by most researchers?
Yes, of course it is!
Would a set of current aircraft identity cards be of some use?
Sure, send one along and I'll provide copies to some folks. It might be redundant, but a second copy could come in handy, thanks for asking! I like your idea for an app that could quickly help ID a specific chopper type/model.

As to your observation about a dark-colored object silhouetted against the sky, yes it appears "black." What strikes me about the sighting log is the number of seemingly accurate witness observations concerning the general type of craft, its color, the actions/movement and flight characteristics of the chopper. "Black helicopters" are actually a minority of sighting descriptions in the 1970s. The highest color category would be military-style olive green, if I had to make an educated guess without doing a breakdown.

So, if I get you a copy of C&theC (somehow) would you volunteer to create an Excel spreadsheet and list out a data breakdown? I can also add quite a number of additional sighting events from CO/NM post 1991 (when the revised version of Adam's book came out) and then go through reports up to the 2005-6 time period. Anybody else like to get outta your armchair volunteer and help out? Be a part of the solution not a passive part that is the problem!
Many are called, but few pony up! :cool:
 
YEEHAW!!!!

Yeah, I could volunteer for that spreadsheet, but It might take a month or two depending on the size of the data and its complexity. As far as a copy.... I would be willing to purchase it, as I cant find it on the net and this little question has got a bug on me. I am just convinced their is a pattern, its only if we can get enough data to discern it
 
My arm chair is very comfy. Consider me part of the problem if you like. It's a free country. Well... you know what I mean.

And good luck. My prediction is it will lead to some interesting insights, just not the ones you expect. :)
 
That's what keeps it interesting. Personally, I don't think the answers we seek are to be found in old reports or newspaper morgues or (heaven forbid) government documents, but people do regularly dig up really interesting things from such places. I particularly like the work Michael Swords is doing along those lines. Who knows, maybe one of y'all will pull out the key to the vexing questions we all come here to theorize and fantasize about. I was wrong that one other time, so it could happen again. ;)

Some of the most interesting cases to me are the ones that seem to have some sort of apparent craft rather clumsily disguised as a normal object, like an airplane. I had such a sighting myself. Seems like those Mars Attacks moments are reason enough for someone to dig into the helicopter reports looking for patterns. Since I don't really think I saw a flying saucer clumsily disguised as an airplane, I don't expect much to come from a nuts and bolts approach in dealing with such reports but it might be exactly the right thing to do.

One reason I'm "part of the problem" is that I'm pretty well over it. Some years ago, Glenn Campbell put it very well when he said something like, "I don't really care. If aliens are here, they seem to be keeping a low profile and letting us try to fix our own messes, so it really doesn't matter much to me."
 
YEEHAW!!!! Yeah, I could volunteer for that spreadsheet, but It might take a month or two depending on the size of the data and its complexity. As far as a copy.... I would be willing to purchase it, as I cant find it on the net and this little question has got a bug on me. I am just convinced their is a pattern, its only if we can get enough data to discern it
I have a line on a possible digitized copy. More later... Any other volunteers? Ideally, this should be a three or 4 person project...
 
What are you looking for, someone to read some descriptions of aircraft and pick a likely manufacturer & model?
 
I do not believe so... The interviewer would have already done that for us. The earlier posts were in reference to how we could help standardize and refine the witness's identification of what they saw. This would be taking those results along with other pertinent data and collating it all into a useful data set that could be applied in a map of area sighted, a time period of sightings, and any changes to those categories over a given time.

Say you had a sample base that was centered on the SLV region. These numbers are for example only, but lets play with it....
In 1980 there are 6 cases, 2 featuring bell 47's, and 3 with jet rangers, and one UFO.
In 1981 there are 3 cases, 1 one of each
In 1982 there are 9 cases, with 3 bell 47's, 2 Jet rangers, 4 R44's, and 1 UFO.
1983 has nothing
1984 has only 2 cases, both R44's
1985 has 4 cases, 1 Jet Ranger and 4 R-44s

For simplicity we will consider that there are only 2 general classes of mutilations, meaning two different methods or other similar characteristics that we can use to classify mutes.
Class 1 was mostly jet rangers and R44's. Class two had all types .

From this we could deduce that there are probably two operators, one of which likely stopped using bell-47's in the region in or after 1982, and started to use R44's.
The other used Jet rangers, but also included UFO's, which in this case simple means unidentified aircraft in both cases.

We are actually lucky in the fact that helicopters by nature are all regional aircraft, and so should generally stay within a certain area, say west of the rockies, for many years. They are capable of coast to coast travel, but that is not often done in a helicopters life. Even the army tends to pack them up for long distance transport. If an entity moves its operations, it will usually do so as a group and not as singles. Not always, but usually. The laws of economics still apply, and all entities have bean counters.

We can the look at the FAA registration archives for companies or entities that changed or experienced changes to its aircraft within this time period. Their fleets will probably be larger than just 3-4 helicopters, so it will create a relatively large list, say 30 companies. As we document other regions and other time data however, we can start to see where groups may have started to operate in one area, only to change to another at a later time. Eventually, we can get an idea of the fleet makeup, which might give us a lead in narrowing down entities with those matching data. Even if you end up with 10 separate entities across the whole country that match the profile, that's still only 10 companies to start researching for various ties to anything else, such as whether they are only flight contractors, are they part of a larger entity, like Monsanto or GE, or even just happen to be fully privately owned. Where are these companies based? Who does the maintenance? Are any of the aircraft leased? This and lots more information is readily available if you know where to look. Just ask any bank loan officer who needs to keep track of collateral for larger loans or financing. Lots of this can be found on a states SOS site, FAA, and public financial disclosure with respect to stock ownership and dividend payouts. Its actually the entities that are fully privately owned that most likely will be the best evidence for a groups identity, and hence a possible motive.

Case in point, the old Southern Air Transport. They were a private contractor company in the eighties and ninties. They had one primary client, the CIA. Their operations were mostly at nightat the airports they did operate out of regularly, and even though they only had about 30 aircraft, mostly c130 civilian models, there were aircraft spotters (a wonderful group of guys and gals whose hobby is tracking aircraft in and out of airports and careers) who counted many times that number of aircraft tail numbers, and at times the same numbers in different locations of the world at the same time. Hence a fleet of 30 would appear to be actually a fleet of over a 100. The very concept is to make tracking particular aircraft impossible. It is likely that what we are looking for will have similar behavior, or be a small fleet that spread over a large area, say the western united states. Also, we need to be looking for several small companies all owned by a larger entity.

This would ultimately be a bear of a project that will possibly add up to little knew information, but just identifying patterns and behaviors over time could be very revealing, itself. Chris is correct that this should ideally be a 3-4 person project, preferably with different talents and career experiences. I thought about this due to my younger aviation background before I got into computers, and my wife works at a bank as a collateral tracking agent. It has amazed me what she has shown me is publicly available on those ends.

Its 6 am here and my medication has not really allowed me to sleep much tonight, so I apologize if what makes sense in my head right now is complete rubbish in the afternoon, lol. I had my first, ever so eagerly anticipated, right of passage yesterday referred to as "kidney stones". As the doc says, "just let it pass, just let it pass... and take these tramadol, too" Yeah, first time with that medicine, too. Oh, what fun it is.
 
Gotcha. From the descriptions of what you were talking about in the earlier posts I wasn't sure if the raw reports were already partly tabulated or just in the form of notes.

Depending on what you're looking to get done, I might be able to help. I'd there's a few more people on board, it might pay dividends to set out exactly what you have now and what the end goal is so that you can work out how to break it down into smaller chunks and assign them out to people.
 
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