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Thinking about the 2nd Amendment.



Simone_m

Skilled Investigator
There was a time, quite awhile back, when I was so fed up with hearing about these public shootings by mentaly ill guys, that I wished everyone's guns would be siezed. One time, back in '06 I think, I called into coasttocoastam and somewhat argued with George Noory about guns, because he is pro 2nd Amendment.
Their defense, which I reviled and ridiculed, (and which I still find ridiculous somewhat) was based on, what if the Federal Government turned against us all. I pictured a guy in his little wooden house aiming his dearhunting rifle or 38 revolver, at approching US Army tanks and missle-armed helicopters.

But now, a scenario is occurring to me, that goes like this. You have this handfull of International Banker types, who want to weaken all the strong Western countries. So you decimate the Middle Class. Suddenly, there is a -large- population of testosteronized young men. With no jobs, no future, and they have been culturally desensitized with thug lyrics/lifestyle. The African ones can't wait to beset upon the white ones, so the caucaisan ones ly in wait for revenge, and get it. Boom. Internal war. And....chaos. In England, the populace there are unarmed....I understand. Here in the US, actions have been underway to disarm as well.
It's ingenious. Let the people kill the people, then ('We') (The They) will kill them, and establish a total police state in a third world like country.

So okay. This is a "SHTF" situation where I would ---appreciate--- being armed.

Just thinking out loud here. About the 2nd Amendment.
 

Ron Collins

Curiously Confused
Taking away guns does not stop violence. The weapon just changes. Australia has shown that in lieu of firearms, knifings and bludgeoning go up exponentially. Not to mention all you would be doing is taking guns away from law abiding citizens. Its not like the gang bangers, drug cartels, or the mafia would suddenly abandon using them. in some open cary states the gun related violence is very low. Arizona or Wyoming for instance have seen a decrease in gun related violence since open carry laws were passed.

i am an advocate for better training, more stringent licensing, and much tougher punishment for gun related crimes. This makes more sense to me than the "get rid of them" campaigns. That is addressing a tool not the problem.
 

Xylo

Paranormal Adept
Taking away guns does not stop violence. The weapon just changes. Australia has shown that in lieu of firearms, knifings and bludgeoning go up exponentially. Not to mention all you would be doing is talking guns away from law abiding citizens. Its not like the gang bangers, drug cartels, or the mafia would suddenly abandon using them. in some open cary states the gun related violence is very low. Arizona or Wyoming for instance have seen a decrease in gun related violence since open carry laws were passed.

i am an advocate for better training, more stringent licensing, and much tougher punishment for gun related crimes. This makes more sense to me than the "get rid of them" campaigns. That is addressing a tool not the problem.

Agreed Ron. Enforcement of the gun laws already on the books would be a start.

Secondly one only has to look at the historical precedent of disarming the civilians: Go back to feudal Japan and the elimination of the peasant swords. Go to medieval Europe and the taking of bows and crossbows from the civilians; to 1930's Germany....and so on.

One of the elements of the Declaration of Independence is very clear about the responsibility of the commonweal.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

An armed population is a population that can, in such a crisis, "throw off such government" and in the interim "provide new guards for their future security." An unarmed population cannot, and will be subjugated-whether by fear or force. I, personally, would rather die with my boots on, than on my knees.
 

SoCalGNX

SoCalGNX
A gun can be made using 3 household ingredients. There is no way to really take them away because of that and because firearms are so intrenched in our culture. I do not have a problem with people having guns. I have a problem that the NRA does not participate in finding some sort of way to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill.
 
P

pixelsmith

Guest
I think most people in rural minnesota have at least one gun in the house. The majority of my friends have at least 6. I would like to see anyone try to take those guns away. It would never ever happen.
 

Ron Collins

Curiously Confused
I think most people in rural minnesota have at least one gun in the house. The majority of my friends have at least 6. I would like to see anyone try to take those guns away. It would never ever happen.

Try living in Texas. Most people I know have at least one gun safe with an assortment of rifles, handguns, shotguns, collectables, and typically a bow. Not to mention the myriad of knives that always seems to precede and follow gun purchases. I doubt you will be convincing the population here to hand all of that over.
 

Simone_m

Skilled Investigator
I was thinking about the out-of-control mass violence in England, when I made this thread. I was imagine innocent people there, being pulled out of their cars and homes by the marauders. I listen to Alex Jones, If they had guns, they could shoot the attackers. But then, wouldn't the attackers have guns too. Then I was thinking, "Well a situation like that is where the police or military come in." But at first, the police didn't come in.
I think about law enforcement. And what would everything be like if all you were allowed to protect yourselves without law enforcement. (And I'm otherwise not pro Libertarian..) It seems like -mostly- what they do is collect revenue for the state. When they are not beating up a wheelchair guy, or shaking someone down.
 

Xylo

Paranormal Adept
I was thinking about the out-of-control mass violence in England, when I made this thread. I was imagine innocent people there, being pulled out of their cars and homes by the marauders. I listen to Alex Jones, If they had guns, they could shoot the attackers. But then, wouldn't the attackers have guns too. Then I was thinking, "Well a situation like that is where the police or military come in." But at first, the police didn't come in.
I think about law enforcement. And what would everything be like if all you were allowed to protect yourselves without law enforcement. (And I'm otherwise not pro Libertarian..) It seems like -mostly- what they do is collect revenue for the state. When they are not beating up a wheelchair guy, or shaking someone down.

Not sure how much you watched the news in 1992, during the riots in LA (after the Rodney King beating acquittal.) But had you been watching at that point, you'd have seen news reports of Korean store owners standing watch on top of their stores with shotguns. If I recall correctly, those stores were left standing and mostly un-looted and un-molested.

Criminals and looters generally look for the easiest target, show them you're prepared and ready to fight...in general they will go away in search of other prey.
 

campbell71

Skilled Investigator
ahhhh the 2nd amendment. The right to keep and bear arms for the formation of a local militia should the government get too uppity. Not the right to build up a small arsenal - 6 guns really? unless I'm mistaken most people only have 1 pair of hands how are they going to operate the other 5? I'm with Ron on this, not more gun control but better self control is the answer, or at least a step in the right direction.
 

Ron Collins

Curiously Confused
ahhhh the 2nd amendment. The right to keep and bear arms for the formation of a local militia should the government get too uppity. Not the right to build up a small arsenal - 6 guns really? unless I'm mistaken most people only have 1 pair of hands how are they going to operate the other 5? I'm with Ron on this, not more gun control but better self control is the answer, or at least a step in the right direction.

You kind of got where I was going. Let me clarify.

I am all for making it tougher to qualify to own a gun. Licensing and extensive background checks and mental screening combined with 3 month waiting periods. Once you have gone through the trouble of getting the license and paying for the weapon, I don't think a person should be limited to the number (reasonably. I think you should have to get a special collectors license to own more than 20) of guns he/she owns.

The key for me is the belief that quantity does not equate malicious intent. I might have have a sub-compact for concealed carry. A bolt action .308 for hunting deer, elk, hog, or something. A shotgun for hunting fowl. A Winchester 1866 because its cool or an AR for the same reason. I can personally imagine having a slew of guns for no better reason than collecting them and that shooting at paper targets is fun.

Responsible ownership through screening, licensing, training, qualification, and periodic review and assessment. That is the angle I advocate.
 

vonmazur

Skilled Investigator
Well, there is the Poll Tax ruling of the SCOTUS that no test can be applied to a Constitutional Right...

Good luck with all the Crypto-Nazis and their "autophallophobia"!

Dale
 

boomerang

Paranormal Adept
I grew up with private gun ownership during a time when violent crime was a fraction of today's mess, and the phenomenon of mass stranger killings was unheard of.

One of the lessons I take away from recent sad events in Great Britain and Norway is that one cannot rely on an official agency for immediate protection. I say this with realization that a profound gulf of opinion on the subject of gun ownership tends to exist between Americans and our friends across the pond, and even Canada.

Anyone who is truly committed to disarming the populace in the U.S. may start by posting a large sign on their front door saying "There Are No Guns In This House".
 
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