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September 25, 2016 — Stanton T. Friedman and Kathleen Marden


Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Chris and I were tempted, but there was no point debating the authenticity of the MJ-12 "Eisenhower Briefing Document," yet again, nor the belief of Stan and Kathy that UFOs are spaceships.

That said, there was plenty of interesting material to consider.

Chris and I talk about it further on this weekend's episode of After The Paracast, an exclusive feature of The Paracast+:

The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio
 
Thank you for asking my question.

During the interview Mr Friedman mentioned that the week before Pearl harbour a publication said that no Battleship had even been sunk from the air.
The publication was in error because the Italian Battleship "Conte di Cavour" was sunk by Fairey Swordfish (Biplanes armed with torpedoes) at Taranto harbour (Italy) on 11-2 November 1940.
It is said that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour (December 7th 1941) was influenced by the British attack on the Italian fleet at Taranto.

It would be interesting to find the exact document, or the exact quote, because it could be an example of deliberate misinformation by the publisher.
My understanding is that the results of the raid on Taranto were not kept secret, in fact the British made a big deal out of it:

Daily Telegraph November the 14th 1940:

1940-daily-telegraph-front-page-reporting-british-planes-of-the-fleet-E5GHN9.jpg
 
For the newbies in the field, Stan always gives us great points to think about, but given this article, I think it's probably time to look someplace else beside Zeta Reticuli. Thanks to @Christopher O'Brien for asking my questions. I wanted to like Kathleen but she was all over the map for me. I liked what she had to say about the sort of "old boys club" who used their positions of influence to quash interest and study in UFOs. I also liked that she said she doesn't believe any case 100%, which adds an air of credibility, but then her and Stan's reaction to the Allagash hoax confession ( around 1:19:00 on the P+ version ) sounded a lot like a hand-wave, and that made me wonder what kind of "probability ratio" she used to highly rate the SNF incident ( The Walton Abduction ), when it has some serious credibility issues.

Also Maybe Klass bothered people, but does that mean he was always wrong? IMO his influence on the field made pro ufology researchers have to work harder and think smarter in order to get around his skepticism. It's not good that he helped entrench an air of ridicule around the subject, but that had already been put in motion by the CIA ( Robertson Panel ). Lastly, while it's true that scientists and skeptics haven't done the field of ufology a lot of favors or been particularly fair or kind, the field has had it's share of quacks to deal with that hasn't helped its image either. Stan's closing remarks on what we can do to make it more respectable were very good.
 
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Stan seemed less programmed than usual.
I liked Kathleen's remarks about Jacobs' research.

This is why I avoided MJ-12 and a few other tropes.
I don't agree gents, sorry. 43 minutes or so in (ATP version), with but a mere mention of MJ-12 and just the one repeat of the "put your hands up if you've seen a UFO" lecture anecdote at that point, the show was going along promisingly well: Menzel, Klass and Condon had all got decent airtime. "Okay," asks Gene, "So who are their successors?" Cue Stan to point-blank ignore the question and launch straight into the Zeta Reticuli/Betty & Barney Hill script. The show drifted at that point from its original billed content into familiar Friedmanesque shallows. As Randall (Ufology) says above, I thought Kathleen was similarly all over the place. Chris tried to pull things back on track towards the end by bringing in questions, but by then this show was rapidly running out of segments and runway. Time to fly this pair of guests off into the ufological sunset.
 
As I said, a mere mention. Your question to Stan around the three-quarter-hour mark was an excellent one, i.e. who are the modern day successors to Klass et al. Have a listen again to his reply. He brushed it aside and went back to his regular script. The disappointing thing for me was that you didn't bring him back on to the topic in hand, which would have tested him, but let him get away with the subject change. We've heard star map a million times in various guises. This was a chance to get him talking about something different, out of his comfort zone and many listeners' zone of boredom, but it was lost. I have wondered in the past (and again this morning after listening to this), is there more to Stan himself in terms of the disinformation aspect? Was your question too close to home maybe? Just one to throw out there. :) Keep up the great work.
 
My intent with the Star Map was to see if he has considered at all how it might be modified in light of modern astronomy, but evidently not. That's important enough to consider.

Also look at the blog I referenced:

A Different Perspective: Hill Star Map - Badly Out of Date

The book also mainly focuses on Klass, etc., so I suspect he hasn't considered their successors, only that their presence influenced them. I don't see that he has anything else to add.
 
That's a good piece from Kevin. Unfortunately I can't see Stan picking up stuff like that and running with it. He's got his story and he's sticking to it; I don't see he has anything else to add either. Bit sad in a way, Stan was one of the figures that originally piqued my interest in the topic years back.
 
Thanks guys for asking the question re the radar playing a part in roswell.

Great to hear Stanton hit the reverse gear and start beeping as he tried to get out of it and decend into babbling.

Of course he couldn't back it up so he then went on to talk about a mid air collision. Say whaaaaaaaaaa?

Now imagine humans make the interstellar leap in 500 years time and finally we find a planet with life, we swoop down for a closer look and oh no we go and fly into each other ... .. Oh no we wouldn't do that because we mastered collision avoidance 500 years prior with terrestrial jet technology.

Ridiculousness to the point of laughing.

Strange how often test planes crash on military ranges. I'm just saying
 
The interview was okay, though I think the book's premise could be summed up as:

. . . an assertion, wrapped in a presumption, inside a conjecture . . .

At one point Kathleen mentioned a letter between Menzel and Klass on mutual dismissal of UFOs. The fact that they corresponded on UFOs strikes me as strong evidence that they were not "co-agents" managed by the government to deny UFOs. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the last thing an intel agent, or their handler, wants is to be directly linked to yet another agent. So, the thin evidence Stan and Kathleen presented can be explained otherwise, just as Gene commented during the interview.

Thanks Chris for presenting my speculation on aliens themselves stirring the UFO pot to keep things confused. For clarification, Stan always mentions advanced alien civilizations using advanced physics for spacecraft and propulsion. It is no leap to presume that such advanced aliens would also be advanced in all branches of science such as bio-physiology, mind and consciousness, including the ability to influence thought by means that we do not yet know about. So, could advanced non-human beings be able to influence thought without need for the media we use, and go directly into a person's mind without passing through eyes, ears, or touch sensory organs? As long as Stan and Kathleen are proposing advanced physics, then surely all branches of science are open to such conjectures.

And if this conjecture is on the table, then perhaps certain humans actually are targeted by non-humans for thought influence. Hopkins and Jacobs came up during the interview, and it is worth commenting that their use of hypnosis could provide these non-human beings more direct access to human minds. Experiencers come from all backgrounds and many have repeated experiences. Jacobs has even publicly mentioned that he uses various tricks to avoid alien thought influence. Perhaps, then, people like Hopkins, Jacobs and Marden themselves have been unwitting focal points of alien interest since they provide access to mind-altered, hypnotized human minds. Maybe.
 
I think it was Randals question about how to build credibility into the field and Stan responded with (and I quote):

"Stick to the facts"

"Be careful what you say"

"Don't put your ideas out without any evidence to support them"

Meanwhile 10 minutes prior to this he put this idea out...

2 spaceships flew all the way to earth without a hitch before a radio wave caused them to fly into each other

DUDE! Your kind of breaking your own rules here

LOL
 
I haven't listened to this episode yet but about the whole starmap and zeta reticuli issue...

If we are to take Uncle Stan's guidance about them being here because we're blowing crap up, why would they tell us where home is? So we could go blow their stuff up?

One might be tempted to look in the opposite direction of where they say they come from if that's the case...
 
I haven't listened to this episode yet but about the whole starmap and zeta reticuli issue...

If we are to take Uncle Stan's guidance about them being here because we're blowing crap up, why would they tell us where home is? So we could go blow their stuff up?

One might be tempted to look in the opposite direction of where they say they come from if that's the case...
Oooh ... good one :D !
 
For the newbies in the field, Stan always gives us great points to think about, but given this article, I think it's probably time to look someplace else beside Zeta Reticuli. Thanks to @Christopher O'Brien for asking my questions. I wanted to like Kathleen but she was all over the map for me. I liked what she had to say about the sort of "old boys club" who used their positions of influence to quash interest and study in UFOs. I also liked that she said she doesn't believe any case 100%, which adds an air of credibility, but then her and Stan's reaction to the Allagash hoax confession ( around 1:19:00 on the P+ version ) sounded a lot like a hand-wave, and that made me wonder what kind of "probability ratio" she used to highly rate the SNF incident ( The Walton Abduction ), when it has some serious credibility issues.

Also Maybe Klass bothered people, but does that mean he was always wrong? IMO his influence on the field made pro ufology researchers have to work harder and think smarter in order to get around his skepticism. It's not good that he helped entrench an air of ridicule around the subject, but that had already been put in motion by the CIA ( Robertson Panel ). Lastly, while it's true that scientists and skeptics haven't done the field of ufology a lot of favors or been particularly fair or kind, the field has had it's share of quacks to deal with that hasn't helped its image either. Stan's closing remarks on what we can do to make it more respectable were very good.
Hello! I wish I could have given additional information with regard to the Allagash case, but due to ethical considerations and confidentiality I could offer only limited information. There are several reasons why I state there is a substantial probability that it was a real event. I'm sorry that I cannot share the information that I have to withhold. With regard to the Walton abduction, I have devoted half a chapter to it in "Fact, Fiction, and Flying Saucers". The book is heavily footnoted, so you'll know where to look for the evidence.
 
As old literature and ancient occult scientific reviewed observations state, the UFO condition has been witnessed before on Earth. Human kind then researched historical/archaeological evidence of the story of the UFO attack condition, as told by the human psyche to be a Universal war.

What has been argued is the condition of the human psyche to have told the stories, and how it gained the ability to understand science, scientific concepts, conversion and the nuclear condition.

Photon atmospheric feed back therefore describes the condition for the human awareness to gain information as feed back via imagery, sound, voice recording, as the atmospheric body demonstrates that it can record, it can also transmit. Therefore the human aware status states by its own evidence of naming, quantifying conditions as values, that its own self aware status as a human organic presence, and a mind state gains observations and data feed back.

The ancient condition on Earth as old occult science was the pyramid and temples, the layout of the temples likened to a transmitter, and then all of the human evidences for nuclear attacks as references in archaeology and also stories/data as literature. The detailing of manifested imagery (spirits) whilst existing in the nuclear attack of being physically changed/converted.

We see the same observations in modern times, nuclear sciences, conversion conditions, UFO interactions and also life attack by manifested imagery whilst being irradiated.

So we ask ourselves, what happened to ancient life and ancient wisdom, as the technology in ancient times by evidence seemed to be greater than modern time human aware statuses. The history states that a form of nuclear attack called fall out of the atmosphere/heavenly body as a review of God.

We ask, what is the explanation of God. When you review the information it states PHI, O circular nuclear light sound bodies. A point for a calculation for the movement of light rotating in a circular body O = the letter/symbol of G...rotation. G rotates as a light sound signal into the formation of an O, the PHI light sound then splits O into 2 D and D. The value for letters given D = 500. 500 and 500 = 1000.

The conditions to review the Heavenly Christ review 1000 increments. M as the middle value also given a value of 1000.

Therefore the ancients and occultism, relating to the cause and effects of being irradiated by fall out stated an aware status.....GOD attacked life on Earth.

So we state rotation o.....moves into spirals in the nuclear attack. Planet Earth has holes bored into it, and modern observations of the stone fuSION of Earth states holes or sink holes have formed. The status for the heavenly attack therefore states "rotating spiral conditions" bore holes into Planet Earth.

We know as a scientific status that O nuclear fusion has nuclear orbitals...and the models for orbitals are very similar in design to the UFO signals seen manifesting as "heavenly changes", nuclear sound manifestation. We witness by self evidence the attack on life, the loss of the atmospheric mass, the holes in stone and still ask questions as to the UFO condition.

The condition observed is stated to be occult by information as a status...the manifestation of strange looking presences that attack life. The holiness of human blood changes...we gained ebola and aids. What is to question?

So we look to archaeological ancient evidence to the attack on Earth and the boring of holes, and see the witness in Russia. We know by modern day evidence that Russia not only had a forest (trees) flattened in a nuclear and UFO type of explosion, but 100 years later a meteor then hit from the black body radiation pathway heating. 100 is an increment to the letter C in Christ as a Revelation.

20,000 Year Old Spiral-Shaped Metal Object Found in Russia

Also is the archaeological evidence of stone round balls.

If you think about the observation and UFO attack...the conditions of Earth being attacked called (tectonic) the word in secret Carpenter as an aware status.

The UFO condition observed and photographed by the space station as fall out from space...nuclear fuel power plants overheating at the same time as an earthquake.

"boring holes in Earth" and the spiral evidence of the attack...along with the unnatural manifestation of a metallic UFO orb in the Heavens.

Then the other observation of feedback.....scientists believe that inside of Earth, a metal orb exists.

I would ask a question myself, how would you know that a metal orb is placed inside of the Earth body unless by UFO condition and feedback advice that it told you so.

I would then state, that as a huge hole was being bored into Earth by the metallic UFO body manifested, that water started to pour inside of Earth, water, the Holy Christ condition is the saving spirit on Earth.

The review of Earth origin attack already placed the review of the Christ spirit a long time in the literature before the birth of Jesus Christ...as another observation/review to the changes of the nuclear and holiness of water on Planet Earth.

What is it that the UFO advice states and has been advised by many human psychics and those attacked? That a huge mother ship sits inside of the body of Planet Earth.....how else do you think it got there.

Then there is the modern day evidence that the magnetic field on Earth is shifting and the ancient advice that the 2012 End aligns to a Satanic reviewed alignment in out of space as a black body of radiation that attacked Earth before.

Then there is the modern day scientific theory that they want energy at the beginnings of origin and state that origin creation is an evolved cooled radiation condition.

Is there really a question that relates to the UFO condition, or are you all simply ignoring all of the existing evidence until it is too late, just as the human psyche is stating?
 
An anonymous astrophysicist took an updated look at Betty Hill's star map and Marjorie Fish's investigation of it in 2013 ...
Welcome to the forum Kathleen :) . I hope you contribute once in a while. Also thank you for posting the video. Like it says, there are other candidates besides ZR that aren't thousands or millions of light years away, and that is what I took to be the most important point that Stan made. I've made the same counterpoint myself when debating skeptics. Unlike Stan however, I think that the SETI projects are probably the best chance we have of scientifically detecting life elsewhere in the universe.

That doesn't mean I don't think alien visitation isn't real or that other agencies haven't already detected them, just that IMO, SETI projects aren't as "silly" as Stan thinks they are. I think they're pretty cool, and what I find rather disheartening is that because of the "us vs. them" attitude out there that you two brought up, we can't all share each other's enthusiasm for what is at the core of our respective fields; which is a thirst for knowledge about intelligent alien life. The adversarial attitude has blinded some scientists to the reality of what could be right there before their eyes ...


ACOM-01a.png


... and I'd rather not entrench it further by calling those scientists "silly". That won't help us be taken seriously or foster cooperation between ufologists and scientists. If we want to reverse the damage, we need to give respect to those who have earned it by acknowledging their labor and accomplishments. Maybe then they'll be more inclined to be open minded and look up instead of away, and we all might be more likely to learn something.
 
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I must say this was a great Stan (and Kathleen) episode. Most of us know that Stan usually sticks to his tried and tested line, and no reason why he should not - he's not only done the research others can't come close to, he is very intelligent and he does produce logical, although not infallible, reasoning most if not all of the time.

I actually thought this was the least 'Stan-like' episode the Paracast has had with Stan for some time. Although he did trot out much of the stuff we know and love him for, I am pretty sure there were a number of arguments and points used which don't spring to mind as a being ones he usually uses - basically I was hooked and listened right through whilst doing other things, not something I can always easily achieve.

Some great questions too, Randall, Han and anyone else I missed.

As for Kathleen, she seemed pretty measured and reasonable in her responses and whilst I don't necessarily agree that we should automatically be defaulting to the ETH, it was refreshing to hear her back up her thoughts with some numbers and she spoke up when she didn't agree with others.

Funnily enough, especially when talking about the time it might take to get to the stars with tech we know of, (fusion), there were at times 2 grumpy men in the room, neither of which was Chris (who I don't see as grumpy anyway, but it was heating up in a friendly way between Stan and Gene!)

Maybe nothing amazing and new was brought out and the UFO question wasn't solved but I really enjoyed the episode and being conscious that some of our UFO luminaries are getting on, personally I like to treasure every appearance from guys like Stan. One day it won't be possible and that will be a sad day.

Bravo.:D
 
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