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September 17, 2017 — Joshua Black


Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
After doing this episode, I had the feeling that lots of people have had what are called "grief dreams."

Is there a paranormal factor? It wasn't a main point of discussion.

But we did take it forward on this weekend's episode of After The Paracast, an exclusive feature of The Paracast+.

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This topic resonated with me primarily due to my dream experiences after the death of my friend Jerry in 1991.

Jerry had died from complications of AIDS. He had been a Franciscan Brother who was forced out for admitting to being gay. He joined AT&T as a clerk the same day as me. We worked in the same office for years and shared a special rapport. Yet we lived very different lives.

After his death I had a small number of spiritual dreams about him (details below). I pondered whether sharing such dreams with his parents would be comforting to them or self-indulgent. They just lost their son. Did they really want to read about someone’s dreams? I wrote up a letter to them by staying late at work one night. Once it was finished I contemplated whether to print it or delete it. I was seriously considering deleting it.

At that moment, a milk white orb appeared directly to the left of my PC screen. I immediately froze my eyes to see if the orb would move without my eyes changing position. The orb floated to me and stopped at my left shoulder. I instinctively looked at it, and it vanished. I took this as a sign from Jerry to send the letter to his parents. I did so and received a very kind loving response from them. Now, I have this vague recollection that when the orb vanished, I looked at the door of my cubicle and saw Jerry standing there for 2-3 seconds. But I do not know if this really happened or if this is the mind adding drama to the real memory. 1991 seems very long ago.


Dreaming of Jerry:

1. I walked out to the mailbox of our San Ramon home and found a letter addressed to me in Jerry’s handwriting. I realized within the dream context that Jerry was dead so the letter startled me. I took it in the kitchen and opened it. Bright beautiful light poured out. When the light had dissipated, I looked at the return address. It said “Jerry Barros in c/o The Christ”.

2. I found myself being Jerry’s care giver. I saw him as very fragile and sick with AIDS in the wheelchair I was pushing. Suddenly, he jumped out of the chair, turned into a vibrant young boy and began splashing in water puddles. I blindly told him to come back to the wheelchair but he just laughed at me and ran away. When I woke I took this to mean that Jerry was totally free of illness and had the spiritual vitality of a boy.

3. I found myself in a little town that I knew was not on Earth. I realized I had been there many times when I dreamed. The town had a western cowboy feeling to it except that there was a huge cathedral on a hill. I asked a man where everyone was, and he pointed to the cathedral. I walked into the cathedral and saw that the interior was bathed in beautiful blue light. The cathedral was packed with people. Then I saw Jerry in the back of the church. He beckoned me over and told me that everyone in the cathedral was alive on Earth but dying. When asleep, they came here for comfort and strength but did not remember this in the morning. He then pointed to a dancing couple. At their feet was a small child in a fetal position. He urged me to help the child so I held the child, aware that the dancing couple were his parents but had no concern for the dying child. Then Jerry made it clear that I should be helping people on Earth in my own way. He then walked through a door, and I knew the dream was about to end.

4. I found myself in a room with glowing blue walls. Out of the blue came Jerry. I knew it was Jerry but he looked totally different. Now he was a glowing blonde figure in a robe. He gave me a hug and told me to give up the guilt I was carrying for not helping him when he had AIDS. (We lost touch since I worked in San Ramon and he was in San Francisco). At that point, I did not even realize I carried any guilt until he said so. Then he told me that this was our last encounter via dreams. I thought I was seeing a larger aspect of Jerry, something that contained Jerry but was much wiser and ancient. He walked back into the blue and I woke up. I knew I would not dream of Jerry again and I haven’t.

I do not proclaim that these were paranormal dreams, although in my 65 years I have never had such dreams except for this singular occasion. Whether we survive death and can influence and even orchestrate dreams of the living is one of those (shrug) "Hell if I know" situations. My life was enriched by Jerry and these dreams.
 
This topic resonated with me primarily due to my dream experiences after the death of my friend Jerry in 1991.

Jerry had died from complications of AIDS. He had been a Franciscan Brother who was forced out for admitting to being gay. He joined AT&T as a clerk the same day as me. We worked in the same office for years and shared a special rapport. Yet we lived very different lives.

After his death I had a small number of spiritual dreams about him (details below). I pondered whether sharing such dreams with his parents would be comforting to them or self-indulgent. They just lost their son. Did they really want to read about someone’s dreams? I wrote up a letter to them by staying late at work one night. Once it was finished I contemplated whether to print it or delete it. I was seriously considering deleting it.

At that moment, a milk white orb appeared directly to the left of my PC screen. I immediately froze my eyes to see if the orb would move without my eyes changing position. The orb floated to me and stopped at my left shoulder. I instinctively looked at it, and it vanished. I took this as a sign from Jerry to send the letter to his parents. I did so and received a very kind loving response from them. Now, I have this vague recollection that when the orb vanished, I looked at the door of my cubicle and saw Jerry standing there for 2-3 seconds. But I do not know if this really happened or if this is the mind adding drama to the real memory. 1991 seems very long ago.


Dreaming of Jerry:

1. I walked out to the mailbox of our San Ramon home and found a letter addressed to me in Jerry’s handwriting. I realized within the dream context that Jerry was dead so the letter startled me. I took it in the kitchen and opened it. Bright beautiful light poured out. When the light had dissipated, I looked at the return address. It said “Jerry Barros in c/o The Christ”.

2. I found myself being Jerry’s care giver. I saw him as very fragile and sick with AIDS in the wheelchair I was pushing. Suddenly, he jumped out of the chair, turned into a vibrant young boy and began splashing in water puddles. I blindly told him to come back to the wheelchair but he just laughed at me and ran away. When I woke I took this to mean that Jerry was totally free of illness and had the spiritual vitality of a boy.

3. I found myself in a little town that I knew was not on Earth. I realized I had been there many times when I dreamed. The town had a western cowboy feeling to it except that there was a huge cathedral on a hill. I asked a man where everyone was, and he pointed to the cathedral. I walked into the cathedral and saw that the interior was bathed in beautiful blue light. The cathedral was packed with people. Then I saw Jerry in the back of the church. He beckoned me over and told me that everyone in the cathedral was alive on Earth but dying. When asleep, they came here for comfort and strength but did not remember this in the morning. He then pointed to a dancing couple. At their feet was a small child in a fetal position. He urged me to help the child so I held the child, aware that the dancing couple were his parents but had no concern for the dying child. Then Jerry made it clear that I should be helping people on Earth in my own way. He then walked through a door, and I knew the dream was about to end.

4. I found myself in a room with glowing blue walls. Out of the blue came Jerry. I knew it was Jerry but he looked totally different. Now he was a glowing blonde figure in a robe. He gave me a hug and told me to give up the guilt I was carrying for not helping him when he had AIDS. (We lost touch since I worked in San Ramon and he was in San Francisco). At that point, I did not even realize I carried any guilt until he said so. Then he told me that this was our last encounter via dreams. I thought I was seeing a larger aspect of Jerry, something that contained Jerry but was much wiser and ancient. He walked back into the blue and I woke up. I knew I would not dream of Jerry again and I haven’t.

I do not proclaim that these were paranormal dreams, although in my 65 years I have never had such dreams except for this singular occasion. Whether we survive death and can influence and even orchestrate dreams of the living is one of those (shrug) "Hell if I know" situations. My life was enriched by Jerry and these dreams.
Thanks for sharing your story! You might want to consider sending a copy off to Joshua as phenomena like orbs seem to be missing from his collection.
 
Interesting topic, and I appreciated the fact that Joshua emphasized two or three times that at present there simply are no tools to verify what precisely dreams are, much less figure out who the "actors" are in such grief dreams. As far as it goes, it seems clear that dreams are "real things" but where they come from and how they relate to waking reality are big, big questions.

A few years ago I had a very strange dream that had to do with someone else's grief. But it was just too weird.
It was as though I was in my high school auditorium (and basketball court), and there were maybe a hundred people sitting on folding chairs on the court. The lights were on, but not at absolute full brightness. A male figure in a suit was slowly walking up through the audience. Then I saw that it was a solemn-faced JFK (and literally in the dream the realization was "JFK"). Then I heard members of the audience offering him condolences on the recent untimely death of his wife Jackie. :eek:
BOOM, I woke up and I sat up and said out loud "what the . . ." Too weird. And not connected to any recent personal grief.

In my meager opinion I think that dreams can be influenced by forces external to the person dreaming, just as sounds like the telephone ringing get incorporated into a dream.

In ATP Christopher's account of the coyote pup running across the road, and a winning streak, provided a lot of food for thought as well.
 
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Interesting guest and maybe I’m late to this party. I had one such dream about my faithful old dog. I was very upset when I woke up – and extremely grateful to see my old friend again in any form. Max was such a good boy.

I took the time to look up some of Joshua Black’s published work before I listened to the podcast and saw that he was attempting to categorize the information he collects by type and over time. Seems ‘soft’ data and difficult to quantify but he has developed a framework and who knows what this study may reveal given enough time. His bent is about the dreams themselves and how they affect the grief cycle of the individual involved and helping them through it. I couldn’t help but think of Leslie Kean’s Surviving Death: A Journalist Investigates Evidence for an Afterlife and her description of her dream about her brother.

As a PhD candidate in a psychology program I’m sure that after the amount of time, money and effort he’s invested he would like to complete it. I can’t imagine that including paranormal topics would be of great benefit to him at this point in his career.

The only complaint I might make is simply his passing reference to advanced physics, which is a currently popular talisman that is shaken at a variety of topics by a variety of people to make a variety of points. It seemed part of a defensive response to his perceived lack of interest in the source of these dreams. He’s quantifying the output and effect and not speculating about the source. To do so might be evidence of entering his study with preconceived ideas. He seemed very open to many different interpretations.

I found it maybe not the most exciting episode I’ve heard but refreshing.
 
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