ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM
Whittingham
Just short note to all those who are attending remembrance service today or tomorrow,
Lest We Forget
Lest We Forget
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Remembrance Day 2013
- Thread starter ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM
- Start date
Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
I remember last year listening to the oldest living WWI vet in Australia saying that he would not be wearing a poppy or attending any ceremonies b/c they glorify war. Then there's the whole white poppy protest thing that also wants to stand against war, but November 11 really is about remembrance and sacrifice.
I don't believe in war at all but I frequently find myself thinking about the war dead when hiking with my kids in the local arboretum. We often walk past the original plaque commerating the poem "In Flanders Fields" as the poet, John McCrae, comes from the city I live in. I think about all the lost dreams surrendered in the name of making a better life for others back home.
WWII ripped down through my family line leaving death, depression, suicide, violence and alcoholism in its wake. So I wear a poppy to commemorate the loss, the pain, the misery and the bloody sacrifice freely given. It's a sad and solemn occasion whenever we remember these brave dead.
I don't believe in war at all but I frequently find myself thinking about the war dead when hiking with my kids in the local arboretum. We often walk past the original plaque commerating the poem "In Flanders Fields" as the poet, John McCrae, comes from the city I live in. I think about all the lost dreams surrendered in the name of making a better life for others back home.
WWII ripped down through my family line leaving death, depression, suicide, violence and alcoholism in its wake. So I wear a poppy to commemorate the loss, the pain, the misery and the bloody sacrifice freely given. It's a sad and solemn occasion whenever we remember these brave dead.
Bob Watson
Paranormal Adept
I recited this poem at my dads funeral..I miss him.. I wish he was here to see his grandson.. thank a vet.. Before it is to late..
"If we can do him honor when he is here to hear the praise then lets rember him
at the passing of his days.
.
"If we can do him honor when he is here to hear the praise then lets rember him
at the passing of his days.
.
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
Thanking a vet for fighting in some banker's war is like thanking a mark for being swindled by a con artist. Soldiers deserve compassion, understanding, and assistance, not glorification of the fact that they were hood-winked. That's grotesque.
Han
piscator ψ
I find your comments grotesque.
Well Bud, I am sure you believe that bucket of horseshit you just spouted, sitting where ever in hell you are sitting ... safe and sound. And, as a military veteran, I personally am thankful you are where ever in hell you are and not here. If and when the barbarians come and kick in your door ... don't bother calling me ... I will remember the remarks you made here. Count on it.
Decker
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Charlie, that's a hard stance to take, but it's not untrue. I find the propaganda around these remembrance days disturbing. The "Lest we forget" was meant for us not to forget the horrors and the reasons that led to those wars in the first place and to never let them happen again. People need to remember that there were victims on all sides and that everyone was a victim of the war machine, it's gears set in motion by the bankers you mention and spurned on by politics, industry, greed, and evil people who force men to fight and die ( conscription ). And let's not have a big backlash by the drum beating ex-military and military over this. It's not like I don't recognize the fact that when people fall victim to the propaganda and start with the aggression, that somebody has to stop it. Just don't be blind to the rest of it so that it keeps happening over and over again. That would be the ultimate insult to those who died for our so-called peace and questionable freedom.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Relax Decker. He makes a good point. There's plenty of evidence to prove war propaganda happens on all sides in war as promoted by bankers, politicians and industrialists, and soldiers do deserve compassion, understanding, and assistance. I'll add that they also deserve a great deal of respect for their sheer effort. It sure doesn't look easy and the job is far less glamorous than they make it out in the movies.
ufology, I have a long history with ignorant assholes blaming the warrior for the war, you roger that? I don't give a tinkers damn about movies, glamor or any of that bullshit, when the day comes that the country needs it warriors, God Bless those that answer the call. Ask the Brits in 1939-1940, ask the Russians in 1941 or the US in December of 1941. The Nazi's made it real God Damned clear they weren't interested in talk, only conquest. Ask the dead civilians in London or Coventry after the Nazi's bombed the hell out of it who they were looking to for salvation. Or the Russians in Moscow in November or December of 41. Ask the civilians in Hawaii in the aftermath of the December attack on the Pacific Fleet. The thing you civilians have never come to understand is there are some really bad people out there. These bad people see others who really want peace as weakness and take advantage of it. There is no one who appreciates peace more that the man or woman who went into harms way, believe that. The other thing is, if you don't like my statements on the subject, sorry about that.
Decker
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
It is difficult to stand up against, but the only way this evil can be reduced is to simply start saying NO every time we encounter it.
I don't blame the victims, but continuing to abide this programming is what allows it to continue. It's time to stop. If not now, when?
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Certainly no need to apologize Don. Everything you say is true. All I'm pointing out is that as a civilian who would just like to get along with everyone in the world, I'm not inside the ketchup bottle. I can see there are victims on all sides in a war and that it's us who are caught in the middle. The parents of children who were forced to go fight for the war machine in Germany and the civilians who were carpet bombed in Berlin weren't all rah rah rah pro Hitler. Many of them were good people caught in a bad situation who loved their children and husbands and wives just like you or I and ended up getting sucked into the war machine against their will just like we did over here.
So I mean no disrespect. As far as I'm concerned, the less fighting you guys have to do, the better off we all are. It's not the warriors I'm blaming. It's the people who send them into battle for all the wrong reasons in the first place on both sides, and in particular the shadowy powers behind the war machine that stoke the fires.
Bob Watson
Paranormal Adept
My dad served with honor...that is all...I met the last living survivor of the USS arizonia in Wisconsin before he died he served with honor....my dad was not hoodwinked he did his duty.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
My Dad served in the Korean conflict and had the same opinion I do. One can do one's duty with honor and still be a victim of politics and propaganda.
Han
piscator ψ
My understanding of remembrance day is that it is not a "celebration" or "glorification" of war, it is a day to reflect on the dead of all sides, children, women and men.
I think that it is important to reflect on the causes and effects that bought us (the world) so close to total destruction, but 11/11 is not the day to do it, there are 364/5 other days to do that.
I can honestly say that Charlie Primes comments would cause me no offence, if they were posted in a different thread on a different day. This was supposed to be a thread about remembrance not about the rights and wrongs of war.
I could go on and on about respecting the sacrifices that were made so that he (charlie prime) can make such comments (freedom of speech) but given that he made them (the comments) I see little value in doing so, as I believe he would think I was misinformed and a "victim" of propaganda.
I think that it is important to reflect on the causes and effects that bought us (the world) so close to total destruction, but 11/11 is not the day to do it, there are 364/5 other days to do that.
I can honestly say that Charlie Primes comments would cause me no offence, if they were posted in a different thread on a different day. This was supposed to be a thread about remembrance not about the rights and wrongs of war.
I could go on and on about respecting the sacrifices that were made so that he (charlie prime) can make such comments (freedom of speech) but given that he made them (the comments) I see little value in doing so, as I believe he would think I was misinformed and a "victim" of propaganda.
I had hinted earlier in this thread about there being evil people in the world, and by inference, evil events in the world. Evil that can only be confronted by an armed response by "good men" to stop that evil. While thinking on that the most obvious example would be the Holocaust in Europe. Here is an example of pure evil (no other way to describe it) murdering millions of people simply because of their race. My dad saw Dachau at the end of the war in Europe and the effect of that stayed with him until he died. But hey, that atrocity is not singular, I saw the effects of many atrocities when in SE Asia. Cambodia is an example of when the Communists ran rampant thru that country when they won their war. The Serbian murders of Muslims, the Muslim murders of Serbs, etc. ad nauseam. For all you people that despise the thought of an armed military, what would you do in the event of mass murder like the Holocaust? I am and have been a real straight shooter when it comes to my beliefs and life experience. I don't want to sink into ad hominem attacks but for God's sake, stop drinking the damn Kool Aid. Life is tough enough but it is even tougher if you're stupid.
Decker
Decker
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Exactly. I recognize the legitimacy of what you're saying. I'd be stupid not to. But it would be equally stupid not to see the validity of the other points here as well. They're not in opposition to you or in contempt of those who honestly thought they were fighting to protect their country and the lives of those at home whom they loved. What we're saying is that it's a tragedy that anyone gets sucked into the war machine in the first place, and that to prevent that now and in the future we need to do more than just remember those who were sacrificed in the past, but do them the honor of being vigilant not to let it happen again in the future. Otherwise it diminishes their sacrifice. What good is dying for peace when the next stupid generation gets sucked in again. Talk about stupid. That's what's really stupid. Will humanity never learn. Will the good people never learn to see it coming and kick the troublemakers out before they can cause such huge problems? Surely you see there's some merit here?
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Bob Watson
Paranormal Adept
thank you for that Mr Eker!
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
I read King George's proclamation establishing "Remembrance Day". It was about glorifying dead soldiers. It contained nothing about dead children.
When World War I ended in 1918, public debt in Western Europe and the US to the bankers had increased by 1,000%. Read Professor Quigley's book Tragedy & Hope to see how they set it up and executed it.
Glorifying the millions of people slaughtered for that 1,000% increase with parades and weepy polemics about "duty" and "freedom" is the most vile emotional exploitation imaginable. The simplistic comic book war narrative is exactly what allows them to exploit the wholesome human instinct to protect one's family.
DaveM
Paranormal Adept
Right after Pearl Harbor my dad, who was nineteen, and his older brother joined the Army. My father was sent to the Pacific theater and fought at the Battle of Okinawa. My father didn't glorify war. He just did his duty, that was the way he put it. My father didn't like talking about his experiences that much.
When I asked him what happened on Okinawa he only told me this much. The Japanese were entrenched in caves on the island. The only way to get to them was to use flame throwers and to get up close the entrances and flush them out. A lot of good men died on that island.
If you are saying every war is just, you are probably right. On the other hand we still need armed forces to defend the country, no matter what you might think Charlie.
When I asked him what happened on Okinawa he only told me this much. The Japanese were entrenched in caves on the island. The only way to get to them was to use flame throwers and to get up close the entrances and flush them out. A lot of good men died on that island.
If you are saying every war is just, you are probably right. On the other hand we still need armed forces to defend the country, no matter what you might think Charlie.
Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
Investigate why that is. Start with the farm boy in Nebraska in 1908 riding his tractor and why it is that he somehow winds up cutting the throat of a farm kid from Budapest in a trench in France whom he's never even met.
Look at the Big Picture and find out why it is that these kids who have nothing against each other wind up killing each other.
If a lot more people discovered this why, my grandkids and yours would safer, wealthier, and wouldn't need standing armies.