• SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY A PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, five years young! For a low subscription fee, you will be able to download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive After The Paracast podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! FLASH! For a limited time, you can save up to 40% on your subscription. You can sign up right here!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!

Religion, Spirit, Mysticism and the Paranormal

Tyger

Paranormal Adept
@flipper I deleted mine, so you can delete above - and we're even-steven. ;)

In all of this I am reminded of a quote from Deepak Chopra: "Religion is belief in someone else's experience. Spirituality is having your own experience." And while I said pretty much the same thing earlier on in the thread, I would equivocate, as in be evasive, noncommittal, vague, ambiguous - ;) - dodge the question, beat around the bush, hedge - ha! - regarding the sentiment. It's not a simple matter - and that's the truth.

We always use a framework. Always. It is wisdom to listen to sage advice. It's a dialog. Intuition tells me that certain people speak with insight - what is that? Intuition - that hunch that tells one 'this is right, this is wrong.'

When I come across something that is true - it feels true - my whole body awakens, in a manner of speaking. There is a resonance. I have always trusted this in me. Yet......

Not that long ago I wound up listening to a documentary on the Heaven's Gate Cult group that committed suicide with the approach of the HaleBopp Comet, believing the comet was a spaceship come for them. The documentary was made by a survivor of the cult - someone who had not been part of the group at the time of the suicides but but had left the group shortly before. As a result the filmmaker had an inside track on the group's inner workings, and many former members of the group were willing to talk to him and be interviewed on camera. I will never forget towards the end of the film, after the narrative had fully explored the events that led up to the suicides and was exploring the aftermath, the comment made by one of the former cult members. With great feeling and sincerity he said that he had been drawn to the group because everything they said 'just felt right - everything made sense - it was a coming home.' How to explain that? It was jarring to hear. How could someone not have seen that there was something askew? How could it be a 'coming home'? How could it 'feel right'?

So how do I make sense of it? Others make sense of it by using a psychological framework - out of Freud or Adler or Jung. Or someone else, more au courant in the psycho-analytic scene, if one's bent, or comfort zone, is 'scientific' (since the common wisdom is that that is rational and sane). I see that framework as having it's uses and wisdom and being worthy of respect. But if one has a different framework - like I do - what do I make of it? That someone was drawn to that cult with all the hallmarks of an intuition - what to make of that?

Well, I trot out my framework - I play with all the possibilities. First and foremost - those people were more than physical, they were soul and spirit, and they were not new to this world, they had lived before. Therefore, I play with past life connections and wonder: what drama was being re-played in that scenario? what 'promise' had been made before birth to meet and come together? what did they believe they were coming to by pre-arrangement? For me, I am looking at a karmic drama. Am I right to do this? Truthfully, not always - it can be as fanciful as anything else (like psychiatry ;) ) but I find it useful, a heuristic devise that gives insights thinking in more linear ways preclude.

For me the world is imbued with spirit - with consciousness. All has meaning. It just struck me that from a certain perspective I believe in animism. Ha! Hadn't considered that. Full circle. Anyway, that concludes my ramble for tonight. :)
 
Last edited:

flipper

Paranormal Adept
In all of this I am reminded of a quote from Deepak Chopra: "Religion is belief in someone else's experience. Spirituality is having your own experience."
This means that those in an organized religion can have a spiritual experience even though they may be deeply religious?


We always use a framework. Always. It is wisdom to listen to sage advice. It's a dialog. Intuition tells me that certain people speak with insight - what is that? Intuition - that hunch that tells one 'this is right, this is wrong.'
I would really be interested in what people think; who or what gives this, where does it come from, how does it work, what is the power source?

When I come across something that is true - it feels true - my whole body awakens, in a manner of speaking. There is a resonance. '
You have a clear third eye.

So how do I make sense of it? Others make sense of it by using a psychological framework - out of Freud or Adler or Jung. Or someone else, more au courant in the psycho-analytic scene, if one's bent, or comfort zone, is 'scientific' (since the common wisdom is that that is rational and sane).
I hope to do a post on how psychiatry has betrayed its patients, from the being especially women,from the very beginning, without attacking anyone's psychiatrist or anyone that has received help from a psychiatrist.

I see that framework as having it's uses and wisdom and being worthy of respect. But if one has a different framework - like I do - what do I make of it? That someone was drawn to that cult with all the hallmarks of an intuition - what to make of that?
Yes psychiatry and psychology is worthy of respect and we should be open to what is helpful to us, but we should also through out what is not helpful to us. The truth is that good professional helpers through out the framework and listen to what is really going on in their patient. The patient can then hear it themselves and take appropriate action. Good helpers make comments, talk values and give advice when appropriate.

Well, I trot out my framework - I play with all the possibilities. First and foremost - those people were more than physical, they were soul and spirit, and they were not new to this world, they had lived before. Therefore, I play with past life connections and wonder: what drama was being re-played in that scenario? what 'promise' had been made before birth to meet and come together? what did they believe they were coming to by pre-arrangement? For me, I am looking at a karmic drama. Am I right to do this? Truthfully, not always - it can be as fanciful as anything else (like psychiatry ;) ) but I find it useful, a heuristic devise that gives insights thinking in more linear ways preclude.

For me the world is imbued with spirit - with consciousness. All has meaning. It just struck me that from a certain perspective I believe in animism. Ha! Hadn't considered that. Full circle. Anyway, that concludes my ramble for tonight.
This is just what I was hoping for, that people would share how they saw the paranormal working. THANK YOU
I lost my work three times while writing this so it may have mistake that do not make sense!
 
Last edited:

flipper

Paranormal Adept
With great feeling and sincerity he said that he had been drawn to the group because everything they said 'just felt right - everything made sense - it was a coming home.' How to explain that? It was jarring to hear. How could someone not have seen that there was something askew? How could it be a 'coming home'? How could it 'feel right'?
When I make a decision, I try to get in contact with what feels right. If I am uncertain I ask those advice who I trusts, which I take or leave according what I can discern is the best course. When it does not work out, I say to myself, "Do not beat yourself up, you did your best to discern the right course." I believe that we see through a glass darkly. Therefore I can only do my best to see and do what seems good. The second part is that there is a genuine war going on between good and evil. This is something that no religion has genuinely acknowledged. Evil is too evil just to teach us a lesson. The angel of darkness often comes as an angel of light, so it can feel right and be very wrong.
 

starise

Paranormal Adept
Flipper, Tyger
I appreciate you guys!! After I re read my post I think I was being a bit unreasonable to those who are long typers. I guess I was trying to say that I personally can't return that kind of a response every time. I'm off work today and I have a little more time so I can afford to connect better.

In the past on this forum I have been barraged by multiple subjects and arguments as a major distraction by some who I won't mention. I'm not averse to the idea that this was probably a tactic used to win an argument or a point. Skewing the subjects or complicating an issue by adding too much into the discussion just makes the whole thing pretty much useless IMHO. I won't play that game...and this is the kind of thing I was referring to. I will say that in the short time I was away some of my views have changed drastically and I might even more closely align with some of those folks who were trying to have me lynched.

Flipper the book I read was called" I Am Not Afraid: Demon Possession And Spiritual Warfare" written by Robert H. Bennett. I read this book while I was doing a study on demons. I must have read over a half dozen books on that subject and I continue to read books here and there on the subject. That particular book was about a Lutheran minister or missionary who was there and he reported on what he found from his perspective. I host a podcast that interviews musicians and recording engineers. I have interviewed some big names in music. I prefer not to disclose a lot about that right now. If you dig deep enough I'm sure you'll find me eventually. I mainly mentioned it because of the point I was making that I'm usually pretty consumed with something :)

I have had to re write much of my " background" fame work lately on belief/religion and spirituality. I am very much a prove by proof person now. And everything deserves to be investigated. The first question I would ask is, What are the tangible results ? Tyger your reasoning and interest in the subject of spiritual material interconnect and spiritual manipulation of the material is interesting. It would stand to reason that if the material comes from the spiritual, the spiritual is on a higher more developed plain and is more powerful than the material making the material subordinate to the spiritual. Religion in the purest form is an effort to connect and communicate with our higher origins. Religion in its basest form is manipulation and control. Do you agree?

Tyger if you happen to be an empath, then you will feel certain things from people...you will know if they are genuine or when they're lying. Unfortunately for those people who were lured to a dangerous maniac in a cult, they apparently didn't have the benefit of this perception. If a person knows whats right and true, then they can know what isn't. If a person has no point of reference I guess they can believe anything. I hate to say it....could it have been laziness?
 

Tyger

Paranormal Adept
This means that those in an organized religion can have a spiritual experience even though they may be deeply religious?
I would say so. Why not? Why would being 'deeply religious' preclude a spiritual experience? In fact, I would posit that everyone - and I mean everyone - has a spiritual dimension, albeit they do not identify the spiritual as spiritual.
I would really be interested in what people think; who or what gives this, where does it come from,
how does it work, what is the power source?
In the above you were referencing my open question: "what is intuition - that hunch that tells one something is 'right'?"

Thinking about it, I think there is intuition, and then there is intuition - meaning, hunches originate at different levels. When I am at the Santa Anita Racetrack and I have a hunch about a horse (and the horse doesn't win), what is that when I have a hunch about a person? I've got a hunch I know the difference. :D
You have a clear third eye.
Is that what you call it? Interesting.
I hope to do a post on how psychiatry has betrayed its patients, from the being especially women,from the very beginning, without attacking anyone's psychiatrist or anyone that has received help from a psychiatrist.
I grew up with a significant set of relatives who were seriously 'not well' both objectively and from a psychiatric point of view. Now as an esotericist I understand that the individual closest to me was a full bore clairvoyant, potentially she was also clairaudient. She aided me immeasurably when I was a child (younger than 6) to negotiate throughout the phenomenon I saw (and no one else saw - I recall her stating to me emphatically that I was not to tell anyone what I saw).

As an occultist I am also aware that she would have been spared a dire destiny had she had even a high school education - she was brilliant but her mind was never trained, and she never encountered her 'teacher' (at least not in the flesh that I know of) with the result that she was thrown on her own devises. Not the best of situations, as psychiatry at that time could not entertain any of what she saw or heard as real. She never encountered a Jungian, unfortunately.
Yes psychiatry and psychology is worthy of respect and we should be open to what is helpful to us, but we should also think through what is not helpful to us. The truth is that good professional helpers throughout the framework listen to what is really going on in their patient. The patient can then hear it themselves and take appropriate action. Good helpers make comments, talk values and give advice when appropriate.
Agree - I also did some editing to your text to make it more readable (to me). ;) Hope that's okay.
This is just what I was hoping for, that people would share how they saw the paranormal working. THANK YOU I lost my work three times while writing this so it may have mistake that do not make sense!
Yeah, your text was unusually ungrammatical, flipper. :p
 

Tyger

Paranormal Adept
Flipper, Tyger
I appreciate you guys!! After I re read my post I think I was being a bit unreasonable to those who are long typers. I guess I was trying to say that I personally can't return that kind of a response every time. I'm off work today and I have a little more time so I can afford to connect better.
I am in the same boat. There are times I just can't respond. In my early days on this site I would be badgered for not answering at length and not quickly enough. :rolleyes: Not interesting.
In the past on this forum I have been barraged by multiple subjects and arguments as a major distraction by some who I won't mention. I'm not averse to the idea that this was probably a tactic used to win an argument or a point. Skewing the subjects or complicating an issue by adding too much into the discussion just makes the whole thing pretty much useless IMHO. I won't play that game...and this is the kind of thing I was referring to. I will say that in the short time I was away some of my views have changed drastically and I might even more closely align with some of those folks who were trying to have me lynched.
We may have experienced the same person. But doesn't matter who it was, the chat site has changed. I think many here are atheists and very much materialists still - and that's fine - but I think there is more a live-and-let-live attitude now. We can have this conversation now without being dive-bombed with hectoring ridicule - besides which that always mightily puzzled me as this is a chat site about the paranormal, after all.
I have had to re write much of my " background" fame work lately on belief/religion and spirituality. I am very much a prove by proof person now. And everything deserves to be investigated. The first question I would ask is, What are the tangible results ?
I would say I am, too. In fact, because I have seen the "paranormal" cause so much aberration, I am far more rigorous in how I view all the "noise". It's taken decades of steady investigation to sift through the phenomenon of living.
Tyger your reasoning and interest in the subject of spiritual material interconnect and spiritual manipulation of the material is interesting. It would stand to reason that if the material comes from the spiritual, the spiritual is on a higher more developed plain and is more powerful than the material making the material subordinate to the spiritual.
I would not make that value placement, rather, consider this: the material is the furthest manifestation of the universe. What we see as physical is the final dead-stop of a mighty spiritual event. That goes for everything. Consider the tree - the tree is really existing 'just outside' the very tippy-tips of its branches - that is where it is growing. In that 'place' where the 'spirit' emerges into the physical, the spiritual 'dies' and the physical twig is the artifact left behind.

Always keeping in mind that I speak from an occult framework that I use as an heuristic devise to 'make sense' of what I see and experience, I will answer the second part of your float: the spiritual (at least the spiritual that I am, as a human being) keenly and absolutely needs the physical realm to achieve its ends, its destiny. In this respect the spiritual and physical are lovers, in the most profoundly real and mystical sense. Were this physical world to be no more, there would be a massive tragedy experienced in the spiritual world.

The spiritual world is 'more powerful' only in the sense that it has the final say (we die - spirit is ever present by a breath). We humans do not yet have omnipotence in the physical - though that is humanity's destiny (in a very, very far-flung future).

I would not say that the spiritual is more highly developed as a matter of course. It's complicated. What we see here is a reflection. If one considers that - As above, so below (an occult dictum) - there is much to make one sober. Nothing comes from nothing. But lest we become too broody, the spirit in its purity is love, joy and ecstasy. For myself, I always need to keep that in mind.
Religion in the purest form is an effort to connect and communicate with our higher origins. Religion in its basest form is manipulation and control. Do you agree?
Yes. In the end, religion exists because we as humanity lost our innate connection to our higher origins. The Greeks 'thought' the gods were interested in their human doings because they 'saw' the gods mingling with humans. It wasn't a belief - it was a fact they saw as clear as day. The moment we then needed intermediaries - a shaman or priest(ess) - to make our connections, human error entered the drama: power, greed, lust - the usual.
Tyger if you happen to be an empath, then you will feel certain things from people...you will know if they are genuine or when they're lying. Unfortunately for those people who were lured to a dangerous maniac in a cult, they apparently didn't have the benefit of this perception. If a person knows whats right and true, then they can know what isn't. If a person has no point of reference I guess they can believe anything. I hate to say it....could it have been laziness?
Here we have the benefit of religion. Religion adhered to purely is the probationary path. Religion as I am meaning here teaches the virtues that will be needed on the further path when one steps as a free, independent soul into the bracing atmosphere of one's own discovery. Religion is needed when we are young. If we don't have that, we will seek it out when we are older, in the wrong time.

A lot can be said for love. This will be hard to hear for some but it is clear (to me) that the leader of the Heaven's Gate cult was 'charismatic' - filled with the charisma of a power (like love). He was not necessarily lying. This power was felt by those who came in contact with him. Where the fail happens is with the mind. No matter how much we love - we must still think for ourselves. The warning bell should have gone off for the people when they were being asked to not think for themselves, to accept 'on authority' what was being asked, the first time they were told not to question.

I am not inclined to go too deeply into the Heaven's Gate situation because I suspect a Being was connected to that phenomenon that I do not choose to 'touch'. Heaven's Gate, David Koresh, Jim Jones - these manifestations - like ISIL - all of these 'charged' events have spiritual authorship. Even in UFOlogy there is an element - a tinge.
 

Tyger

Paranormal Adept
When I make a decision, I try to get in contact with what feels right. If I am uncertain I ask those advice who I trusts, which I take or leave according what I can discern is the best course. When it does not work out, I say to myself, "Do not beat yourself up, you did your best to discern the right course." I believe that we see through a glass darkly. Therefore I can only do my best to see and do what seems good.
Sounds all good. I know I have been known to consult a psychic ;) - though even as I do it, I know I am potentially out in left field. However, interestingly, the last consult with a psychic I did, I was asking about a nagging family issue, wondering if I should 'walk away'. The psychic answered that her 'guides' were all saying that I would never see the outcome I wanted and to just let it go. She was honest - but then said: 'That's what my guides are all saying, but I want to say to you - try just one more time. Be aggressive and no nonsense. I think it will break the log jam.' She repeated her own advice a few times, stressing it was her intuition, not her guides - don't give up - ask one more time - and I did - and the whole situation simply gave, and the outcome I was looking for is happening.

What was happening there? I have a hunch I know. :p

The second part is that there is a genuine war going on between good and evil. This is something that no religion has genuinely acknowledged. Evil is too evil just to teach us a lesson. The angel of darkness often comes as an angel of light, so it can feel right and be very wrong.
Well, yes and no. Any religion touched by Manichaeism would have that strain in it. ["Manichaeism - a dualistic religious system with Christian, Gnostic, and pagan elements, founded in Persia in the 3rd century by Manes ( circa 216– circa 276). The system was based on a supposed primeval conflict between light and darkness. It spread widely in the Roman Empire and in Asia, and survived in eastern Turkestan (Xinjiang) until the 13th century." The Cathars - pummeled into extinction by the Inquisition in the Middle Ages - had Bogomil antecedents. The 'eradication' of this belief is interesting given that an ability to see that the spirit can be misleading becomes the key to freedom. An authoritarian church had to stamp this out were it to maintain control.]

The idea of a good vs evil battle is embedded in our earliest mythos from the Bible: the War in Heaven between Lucifer and the Archangel Michael. The knocking of 'a jewel from Lucifer's Crown' that tumbled into the abyss - or the chaos that was creation - is highly instructive, and points to the fact that into creation was mixed a dollop of 'evil'.

However, what is evil? An occult teacher once said: "Evil is that which has come before its time, or has remained after its time."

In occultism it is understood that an entire hierarchy has 'sacrificed' itself to be 'evil' in this Round of Creation. It is only in that condition that a choice can be made, that free will can be developed. As a human being we are developing our Egohood in freedom. It is the simplest story, yet within it is couched the profoundest truth: the human is free to choose.
 
Last edited:

flipper

Paranormal Adept
I host a podcast that interviews musicians and recording engineers. I have interviewed some big names in music. I prefer not to disclose a lot about that right now. If you dig deep enough I'm sure you'll find me eventually.
I am only interested in knowing what you want to share.
Religion in the purest form is an effort to connect and communicate with our higher origins.
I am surprised. There have been two positive things said about religion. This is radical.

. If a person knows whats right and true, then they can know what isn't. If a person has no point of reference I guess they can believe anything. I hate to say it....could it have been laziness?
There are so many broken people who cannot find there way even though they truly try. I do not think that I am making excuses for them. Why do some find their way and some do not? Is it intuition, luck, something in themselves they do not understand, the divine ,or better choices? No one, I have been told, would ever choose to go through what I have. Where does that extra courage come from to get better?
 

flipper

Paranormal Adept
The only thing that we can know from the other side is that there is one. It seems that there is both good and bad there:
the pecan story
hidden experience: the pecan story
I thought for a moment and asked, “Why did you turn around when you were heading back towards the house?”

She said, “I wanted to thank the tree for giving me the pecans.”

That one small detail, wanting to formally thank the tree, changed the entire tone of her story. There is something so beautiful about that simple act of being grateful, and acknowledging it, and it adds such depth to this woman’s experience. The lesson I learned is to ask these kinds of questions, to try to push beyond just the dry nut’s and bolts pragmatic inquiry.

One question I ask of UFO witnesses is what were you thinking or saying just before you saw the UFO. I ask the same thing to people who see owls, or who’ve had a profound synchronicity. What was being articulated, either in your mind or verbally, at the moment the event occurred, or leading up to that moment.

One thing that I’ll hear from witnesses is that they wanted to see a UFO, and it appears either as they say it or just a short time after. I don’t understand the mechanism of how it happens, but I sure see the connection. Other times the connection is less overt, and sometimes its downright mystical.

Another thing I’ll ask is what was going on in your life leading up to the sighting, and then I’ll follow that with what has changed since the sighting. I’ve heard a few witnesses say that before the sighting their life had been going poorly, they had been feeling stuck and confused. Now, it would be perfect if they said that after their UFO sighting that they had become unstuck and saw things clearly, but I haven’t heard that reply yet. What I have heard is that the sighting forced them to look much deeper at their own concepts of reality itself. They’ll go on to start mediating, and begin reading spiritual books. It is very common that they'll quit their job and begin an entirely new life with a new dedication to these more mystical ideals.
 

Soupie

Paranormal Adept
However, there are still 'gods' afoot of a kind, within whose beings we "live and move and have our being." That said we are unavoidably influenced by such gods. They more than 'color' our thoughts, they give us our thoughts.
I read the following article and was reminded of what you wrote above, Tyger.

Why God cares only about what matters – Benjamin Grant Purzycki – Aeon

"...From the moral imperatives of the Abrahamic religions to the patch-burning of the Martu, the knowledge and concerns of gods point to behaviours that can yield benefits for individuals. The minds of gods are but single points within complex systems of human co‑ordination and co‑operation. And, as the hip-hop artist Baba Brinkman recognises: religion evolves. It evolves in accordance with what Carl Sagan calls its ‘perfectly pragmatic purposes’ or what Émile Durkheim calls its ‘secular utility’. The gods appear to be the workings of an organism trying to influence other people also negotiating the costs and benefits of being alive at a specific place and time. They are important forces in human mobilisation and organisation. ...

Gods stick around in part because they engage deep-seated and intuitive psychological systems that subtly alter our thoughts and behaviours. And our fascination with gods’ minds also stems from their contributions to our survival. When social and ecological threats to survival change, the gods often do too. Anthropologists have long characterised religions as reflections of society; more recent observations suggest that societies might be reflections of religion. But both views are far too simplistic. Instead, a tangle of two-way arrows and feedback loops connect our religions, our societies and our minds. Science has yet to come to terms with what it is about us – mere points on this messy continuum – that keep the gods around. ..."
 

Tyger

Paranormal Adept
@Soupie I see God (and gods) as an ever moving target. As we evolve in consciousness the God-idea shifts, but some of it is timeless - like the God Immanent, and the God Transcendent. In those two concepts it's all summed up. After that it's all in the details how one thinks it all plays out. The stories are as many as there are human hearts, as someone once said regarding the pathways to God.

God - is Home, not so? In the end. We're all out here on a limb. We know it. When we came into birth we drank 'the Waters of Lethe [forgetfulness] by the Plains of Elysium'. We cannot recall why we came - why all this was set in motion 'for our pleasure, and our pain'. Some of the very old stories told by humanity give us a hint, and more than a hint. It's all there.

We exist in layers of God. Makes sense to me. :)
 

Peacekeeper

Skilled Investigator
I know it's lightbringer in Latin 'Lucifer lux', or light bearer = luce signiferum, which represents the morningstar/planet Venus.

But knowing the secrets of the universe, why and how everything exists. Is a light bearer.

Or master of light (ascended masters).
 


Top