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Ray Stanford — May 18, 2014 Episode

Merchandise that’s just out of this world!

Bulk

Skilled Investigator
After over a two-year absence, Ray Stanford returns to the Paracast to talk about his storied almost 60 year career in ufology. Many of you are aware that I personally feel that Ray is probably the most important figure in this field. We will talk about the 50 year anniversary of the Soccoro Case, many of the figures he has known since the early-to-mid 50s and get an update on his diagnostic work. Please ask your QUESTIONS here:
Nice to hear from Ray Stanford regarding both fields of research.

I had always been curious as to which design was the correct one on the Socorro craft, so it seems that the one with the three parallel lines was, in fact, the correct one.

The testimonies concerning unfriendly races reminds me of Lyn Buchanan's "Seventh Sense" book as well as snippets found on the net of his take on various visitors to our troubled world.

Lyn mentions that it's not just us and them, but rather 'us and them and them and them..'. There are both psychic and non-psychic ones. The non-psychic unfriendlies don't tend to come here except by accident, whereas the friendly non-psychic ones come here for trade.

The friendly psychic ones want to see us evolve our civilization and psychic powers and are the ones who tell us to take care of our planet and our people. It seems that although our psychic powers are weak, we have quite the range, being able to 'see' across the universe, as such we could eventually become quite a force in the universe, and these friendlies would like to see that.

According to Lyn, the unfriendly psychic ones want us dead. He thinks they fear our potentials. Although their psy powers are stronger that ours they must be close to us to use them, that is, they have only short-range psy powers.

Lyn experienced an abduction many years before entering the Army's Remote Viewing unit. During the abduction, which he recalled years later and was also confirmed by double-blind RV work, the pilot determined that Lyn's fingers were long enough for him to be offered to train to be a pilot -- offered by the alien in the ship -- however when Lyn agreed and said he would have to get his family, the alien said that families were not allowed because, the pilot said, 'we are at war'.

Unfortunately, there was no indication with which race(s) this particular small group was at war with.

An interesting side note was that this small contigent of ships was a on a medical mission, it seems that because humans are antibody factories, and these aliens often are infected with many diseases in their travels through space, they implant infected tissues in us, wait for our antibodies to react and then harvest the products to use on their people.

Some of this was covered on a recent c2c episode, most was from his book and various other snippets in other books, forums, and interviews

(Personal thoughts: This would pre-suppose a high degree of affinity of physical body-types, organic chemistry and possibly DNA. It could also mean that because of the phenomenal diversity of life -- and possibly the extreme age of life on our Goldielocks planet, that this makes it plausible that ours is a planet of great importance to others in our stellar neighborhood. All the more reason for friendlies to tell us to take care of our world, maybe some do draw attention to nuclear installations because of the dangers they pose to our world. See Robert Hastings' book. The longer I study this subject, the more dovetailing I note among the researchers I consider credible, including Ray Stanford and seemingly out of left field, Lyn Buchanan.)

To me, it has the ring of truth.

bulk
 

Trystero

Skilled Investigator
As out of print copies are a bit pricey, someone should talk to Ray about publishing a Kindle version of his Socorro book. That is, unless a digital version isn't already available to the elite UFO cabal.
 

Goggs Mackay

Administrator
Staff member
Instantly a top Paracast show. Ill say quickly thanks Gene for asking Ray to upload a photo. As expected, the answer was 'not at this time'. I share the frustration of all in this matter but I am nowhere near using his refusal as a reason to doubt him. I suppose it comes down to the fact that Chris and James Fox amongst others have seen parts of Ray's work. If absolutely no-one had been allowed to see anything then I too would be calling Ray out. But that is not the case.
I suppose I would want Gene to ask Ray in future if he had any plans for his material to be handled should he die suddenly. Morbid I know, but if Ray's work is even a tenth of what I hope it is, it's something that needs looking at.

During the episode I was mesmerised by talk of gigantic craft and many further details of the Socorro case.

Im totally unapologetic about my love for the Paracast and my blind faith in the presenters' honesty. Until proven otherwise, I'm happy to take Chris at his word that Ray is the real deal. Its obvious Ray has zero in common with Greer - he has a proven track record as an investigator and author and there are snippets from Ray online. Did anyone else watch Ray's presentation at NASA on paleontology? Can't say I absorbed it all but it was very interesting and proof positive that there are serious scientists who take Ray seriously in at least one field. That's one more than all the UFO jokers out there.

Fantastic episode that demonstrates why this is a brilliant paranormal show. Like anything, it has faults and slips but show me another show that gets Ray Stanford on spilling all these great nuggets?

Bravo.
 

Polterwurst

Paranormal Adept
I guess my asking about ball of light phenomena unintentionally worked as a kind of trick question (I was afraid it would be totally useless;)). Between his baffling ability to find dino tracks and fossils and the frankly quite incredible sighting of an enormous UFO, it was (IMO) quite insightful that he would neither jump to the conclusion that BOLs have to be paranormal or alien, neither take the debunker's stance that they are all just misinterpretations of aircraft or car headlights.

The "natural phenomenon" hypothesis is obviously the reasonable and the most likely one from a scientific standpoint. It used to be my main theory, too, and I still wouldn't be surprised or disappinted if it turned out to be that way. I wonder why there are not more official research projects, though (apart from the Norwegians and the Italians in Hessdalen, I guess it's only interested scientists who are not supported by universities, peers etc. and often are reluctant to admit to their interest). I don't know of any in the U.S. and surely there are none here in Germany.

I've read about the piezoelectrical hypothesis, and if I understood that right, the problem with the lights being created by seismic activity releasing static electricity or similar events, is that gases being ionized by underground processes would probably stay near the ground and their light would be short-lived, whereas these phenomena are seen moving close to the ground and high up in the sky up to several hours. The ball lightning theory has the same problem. Plasma balls created in laboraties only last for fragments of a second and even the ball lightning sighting reports are AFAIK only talking about seconds, maybe a minute or two, before the ball dissipates.

The show was really a headscratcher and Mr Stanford is always a very interesting, intriguing guest. A phenomenon all by himself. Thanks for asking my question.

I had never heard about the B52 dissappearance, btw. and I liked how he didn't just routinely rattle it off but talked about the individuals involved. I wonder what their families have been told.
 
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FletcherMunson

Skilled Investigator
If Mr. Stanford is not going to post his photos with newfound objects in the sky at Socorro, could he, at least, give me some guidance on repairing my Hilarion Accelerator so I can go back to that day and see them for myself?
 
E

ElmoFUD

Guest
I am not sure what a "Boo Bird" is. But is it is someone who appreciates a promising story and awaits only promised support for it in order to see it as more than an intriguing story, I guess i am one of those. Sorry if that is a bad thing in the mind of some who frequent this venue.

p.s. I often count my bills when I cash a check, too. Perhaps that makes me even worse.
 

Rizla

Paranormal Maven
Chris, I can't tell if I missed this so maybe you know: What is the UFO on the dust jacket cover of "Pentagon Pantry"? (I'm fortunate to have a hardcover w/jacket.)

Great show and always interesting to hear Mr. Stanford. I agree with you, "Pantry" just grows in stature over time; simply as a single case study, there's never been another book like it.
 

boomerang

Paranormal Adept
It was an entertaining interview. Stanford is a sharp and articulate person. I just wish he would provide more documentation (or references to documentation) for his very detailed assertions. For those of us not familiar with details of Stanford's early work and the evidence his is withholding, a little clarification would have been nice.

I find his uncanny talent for fossil finding as fascinating as his UFO claims.
 

callmesnake

Skilled Investigator
i like stanford, and i hope i'm as alert and on the ball as he is at his age. good show.

now for the obvious moan

i'm sick of people promising to post their supposed great evidence and we then see nothing.

this happens time and time again. bored of it.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Ray Stanford has sent out the following to people on his mailing list and has given us permission to post here:

Hello list members,

This is to let you know that The Paracast posted on Sunday, May 18, an interview with me.

You can hear the interview by going to:

https://www.theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_140518.mp3

On April 24, this year, we passed the 50th anniversary of the Socorro CE III, so naturally I was asked in the interview about some of my findings on that case, which was the subject of my 211-page 1976 book, Socorro Saucer in A Pentagon Pantry. IF that interests you at all, please listen to what I said in response, including my account of finding -- with James Fox's encouragement -- a 1964 letter in the National Archive, hand-written by J. Allen Hynek to the U.S. Air Force's Division of Foreign Technology at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, in which he draws for them the red 'insignia' (or whatever it represented) that Zamora saw on the side of the ellipsoidal vehicle he observed.

Hynek's letter vindicates what I decided to tell the world only after Lonnie Zamora's death (to save him any potential embarrassment), that the arc with a vertical arrow under it, and a line underneath, was fictional. How does Hynek's letter substantiate that? Well, because in his 1964 letter, Hynek drew the real item for the USAF Division of Foreign Technology, and it was simply an inverted V with three lines. -- no arc over an arrow, at all. I doubt Hynek, their employee at the time, would have been kidding the USAF's Division of Foreign Technology, and believe Hynek's letter should be taken at face value.

The drawing in Hynek's letter confirms what he had told my wife and me when he visited us in San Antonio, Texas, in 1970, about six years after the Socorro event, when he said, "It seems Zamora told me it was just an inverted 'V' with some lines across it." See page 208, paragraph 3, in Appendix A titled An Obfuscated Red "Insignia"?, in my 1976 book, Socorro Saucer in A Pentagon Pantry, Blueapple Books, 1976, US hardcover first edition.

Ironically, even though I was the officially designated (Richard Hall's letter confirming that is in my files.) NICAP investigator of the Socorro case, and dutifully and quickly supplied Dick Hall with the description of the inverted 'V' with three lines which Zamora had described for fellow police officers who arrived at the landing site quickly after Zamora's radio call, Hall chose to ignore what I reported and without question chose to provide NICAP members (via the NICAP publication) the fictional 'insignia' which Zamora began describing following his Friday night decision to obfuscate the real insignia, as agreed to in a long session with Captain Richard T. Holder, Up-Range commander of the integrated (meaning usage by both army and air force) Holloman-White Sands Range.

O.K., so Hynek's 1964 letter to the USAF Division of Foreign Technology confirms the inverted V with three lines, but some may ask whether I am absolutely sure it was specifically Captain Holder who persuaded Zamora to, thereafter, replace the actual red 'insignia' with the fictional one?

YES, I am 100% sure of that, and I have a statement from someone who knows for sure, documenting the Holder-Zamora obfuscation, that is strong enough to convince all reasonable persons. That statement will soon be published, but for now let's leave it at this: the "insignia" that NICAP, APRO, and most other 'UFO organizations' presented as what Zamora saw in red on the side of the ellipsoidal vehicle is pure intelligence-community obfuscation, a mutually agreed fiction, so that any copy-cat hoaxers could he stopped in their tracks and neither the air force, the army, nor the navy need investigate any farther a close encounter claim alleging that an arrow with an arc over it and a straight line beneath was seen on a vehicle.

It's an old police and intelligence ploy, often used to detect falsity being submitted as evidence, and Zamora was patriotic enough to agree to the ploy that was proposed by the person (Holder) who, on Friday evening, April 24, 1964, was in charge of the government's investigation at Socorro. I remember the several police officers who, during my very first investigation in Socorro, kept puzzling and complaining concerning the fact that after his meeting with Holder, Zamora was describing a very different red "insignia", than the one he described to them within minutes after the object had flown away, directly into a strong wind out of the west-southwest.

Dick Hall of NICAP was not the only UFO group official who fell for the obfuscation, hook, line, and sinker. Jim and Coral Lorenzen, who ran the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO), came to Socorro before I got there, and Captain Holder invited then out to his house and they were so awed by the White Sands up-Range Commander's personal interest in UFOs and his charismatic friendliness that they bought into the obfuscated 'insignia' that he showed them and never bothered to find out what the Socorro policemen knew to be the actual 'insignia'. The substitute 'insignia' had been implanted into the belief system of a major UFO organization.

Holder suggested the clever ploy, and as a good policeman, Zamora saw the reason and the value of Holder's suggestion, right away.

In closing on the Socorro topic for now: I will soon release a high-quality, full-color copy of Hynek's 1964 letter to the USAF's Division of Foreign Technology, with his drawing of the Socorro object's red 'insignia', along with a statement that in reasonable minds should settle the matter that Captain Holder was the person who got Zamora to agree to the obfuscation.

Now let's move on to another very important and significant UFO case I discussed in detail in myThe Paracast interview, and it's one I'd bet most of you readers have never heard about.

Why so important and significant?

BECAUSE IT INVOLVES THE SEEMING PERMANENT ABDUCTION BY A HUGE UFO, OF A B 52 BOMBER AND ITS EIGHT-MEMBER CREW!

I'm not going to write the detailed account herein, because I don't want to have to type it all out, when you can, listen to my detailed description of it on The Paracast for May 18, by clicking on:

https://www.theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_140518.mp3

I had wanted to get into the seeming B 52 abduction case early on in that interview, but it comes only about mid-way because the interviewers naturally wanted me to talk about the Socorro CE III case first, because it's 50th anniversary had just passed.

Please listen to the details I give in the audio interview before beginning any evaluation of the B 52 disappearance case.

AS SHOWN BELOW: I want you to have larger, more high-resolution, copies of the visuals I provided for that interview.:

First, here's a map showing the areas I mention, along with my drawing of the huge UFO which the whole Smelling & Snelling crew of my co-workers (I think there were seven or eight of us.) and I saw, and which I sincerely suspect probably abducted or was somehow associated with the reportedly instant disappearance of, the B 52 bomber and crew.:

A.jpg

Below is an Associated Press article out of Fort Worth, Texas, providing important details on the B 52's February 28, 1968 disappearance, to which I have added my drawing of the huge UFO that I believe was involved, and illustrating two of the trails of single-engine jet aircraft that made repeated reconaissance runs on the several-miles-across object which our whole Snelling & Snelling personnel placement firm's crew watched for multiple minutes, apparently hovering right where the B 52 suddenly vanished from both radar and communication several hours earlier, with no warning or distress signals ever received.

Please read the list in the article below, which provides the names, rank, and background of each of the eight crew members who totally vanished in this unprecedented aircraft-and-crew-loss event. Think about the terrible human loss, seemingly caused by a very large UFO.

THE CREW HAS NEVER BEEN HEARD FROM. THEIR AIRCRAFT HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND. The big, eight-engine bomber had over six hours of fuel still aboard when it vanished. Neither oil slick, nor associated aircraft debris has ever been found.

B.jpg

Then, much to the disgust of Corpus Christi Naval Air Station personnel involved in the search for the vanished bomber, on March 9 a ridiculous and erroneous A.P. report mysteriously came out, suggesting that part of the B 52 had been found 150 miles south of where it disappeared from radar. As you will learn, the report was ridiculous, because what had been found was just the seat pad (with identifying numbers embossed in a metal plate beneath it) from the crash of a small jet trainer from NAS Corpus Christi. BUT PLEASE LISTEN TO THE DETAILS I PROVIDE IN THE INTERVIEW.

C.jpg

A few realistic researchers have warned for years that what some call UFOs could constitute serious dangers to aircraft, even though they may never have heard of this aircraft's disappearance in the context of a sighting, simply because until my reporting of the case, so far as I know, no one has described the huge thing that our whole Snelling & Snelling crew watched, as single-engine jets made repeated reconaissance runs on the object the next morning while it was hovering over or very near the area where the last radar returns of, and communications from, the B 52 crew had occurred,a few hours earlier.

I have mentioned this case in several interviews over the years, but didn't have the data handy to provide the details I am providing now. For The Paracast interview, I thought ahead and came prepared with data from my files.

I'm willing to try to answer any questions credible, serious researchers might want to ask on this case. But I only know what our S & S crew saw that morning before 9:00 am, and what has been reported concerning the disappearance of both the bomber and its eight-man crew. The concept that the object we saw was responsible for the aircraft's disappearance is my personal conclusion based on the temporal and geographic proximity of the aircraft's disappearance and the sighting with jets repeatedly making runs on the huge object. I have no way of knowing how long the huge UFO might have been there before I saw it while driving downtown to work and called my co-workers out to watch it from high in our office building, beginning at around 8:45 am. I don't know when or how it disappeared, but only that when I went across the street to a pharmacy, it was no longer there. That might have been around 11:00 am. It was while in the pharmacy that I heard the news of the disappearance of the B 52, and where that had happened electrified me, because Matagorda Island lay on the azimuth of the hovering object, as confirmed when I went to lunch, by using an azimuth-finding compass and a map, and carefully allowing for magnetic deviation from true north.

I wondered how those pilots flying the reconaissance runs of the huge object might have felt, knowing that the B 52 had disappeared in the area where the huge thing was hovering. We could pretty realistically deduce the distance of the UFO (about 42 miles), because the air was clear, the sky blue, and the jets doing the reconaissance runs were so distant that we could see their rather short (because the air was dry)condensation wakes, but not the relatively small aircraft, themselves.

Hopefully, one of you reading this will get into this case with FOIA requests (but I'd anticipate much government attempted obfuscation along the way) and see what we can learn about the actual disappearance of the B 52, and what survivors of the men on the aircraft were told about their relatives who disappeared in the disaster, etc.

What I have described is totally true, to the best of my knowledge. I think this is the most humanly-significant UFO case I've ever encountered, and if the associations I make between the B 52's disappearance and our sighting are valid, I don't see how it could be otherwise. What we saw was not a balloon. I am familiar with the kinds that existed at that time, and the thing was so huge that it would have made a 'skyhook' balloon look like a tadpole. It was not an atmospheric phenomenon. Again, the air was dry and clear. It was not a conventional aircraft of any type. I have no idea what it was, but it was awesome to all of the office staff, who watched in amazement and puzzlement. The jets were unquestionably making REPEATED reconaissance runs on it, as our office's retired Marine Master Sergeant, Roger Lozano, commented several times.

I'd surely like to learn the names of the pilots making the reconaissance runs and talk to them, if they're still among the living. FOIA requests, anyone?

By the way, the highly credible (according to the late Dr. James McDonald) case wherein young Gregory Wells of Ohio was burned by a seeming beam from a UFO, occurred only about ten days after the Matagorda Island B 52 incident. Since it clearly suggests unprovoked hostility, as might the B 52 disappearance case, considering the closeness in time, one might wonder if there were some exceptionally dangerous intruders in our skies at that period.

Thanks for reading this, and now please listen to my account in the interview if you have time and enough interest.

Very seriously,

Ray Stanford
 

Christopher O'Brien

Back in the Saddle Aginn
Staff member
What is the UFO on the dust jacket cover of "Pentagon Pantry"? (I'm fortunate to have a hardcover w/jacket.) Great show and always interesting to hear Mr. Stanford. I agree with you, "Pantry" just grows in stature over time; simply as a single case study, there's never been another book like it.
From Ray:
See the back inside flap of the Socorro book's dust jacket. It tells that the photo was allegedly taken on May 20, 1971, about 12:30 p.m. by Eduardo P. Melo and Jairo C. Zarate near Bogata, Colombia. The Colombian government soon clamped a lid of secrecy over the case, according to an investigator. In another of their photos, the red dome glows pink, and the white disc radiates a diffuse, white light, seeming to suggest that air around the object has become highly electrified.
 

OBEY

Paranormal Novice
I agree the whole "not the right time" thing is way past played. However I didn't get the vibe from Mr. Stanford that I usually get when someone makes that claim. It seems like he knows he has something legit and doesn't particularly care if anyone doubts him which indicates that he either has something huge and knows when it's released people will agree, or at the very least really believes he does. Going on reputation alone I am inclined to believe him. He strikes me as very intelligent and detail oriented and has a great deal of experience to pull from. So if he believes it's something significant I am willing to trust him.
 

SillyRaabit

Skilled Investigator
I have to say that the last few shows have all been excellent, with knowledgeable and personal guests. The show keeps getting better and better since I started listening.

I'd like to echo the positives of the posters here. I really enjoyed the anecdotal stories, and Mr. Stanford demonstrated a sharp and critical understanding of the UFO field.

That said, the "I'm working on posting the photos" bit is old hat at this point. Easy money says we'll never see them. Whenever there's an excuse posited as to why a Polaroid disappeared, footage was lost, or photos aren't online yet... Well, it comes across as a hustle or dodge.

Also, he dodged Chris' question about others failing to see a massive UFO -- someone should have made a report or come forward with a story. His explanation about seeing what you want to see was interesting, but it's simply too broad a theory to explain away a complete lack of additional sightings across a densely populated area.

If the brain can ignore the sight of a massive UFO... couldn't it also generate one?
 

Constance

Paranormal Adept
. . . "I'm working on posting the photos" bit is old hat at this point. Easy money says we'll never see them. Whenever there's an excuse posited as to why a Polaroid disappeared, footage was lost, or photos aren't online yet... Well, it comes across as a hustle or dodge.
I'm close to positive it couldn't be a "hustle or dodge" based on Chris O'Brien's personal familiarity with Ray Stanford's research, and his impression of the character of the man, over many years. I have a feeling that Stanford's data might produce a shock wave in the public media and thus effect a reaction by a great number of people in this country and elsewhere to the continuing coverup. Given that, I think it's prudent of Stanford to defer releasing his evidence for as long as he sees fit, for his releasing it could produce harsh repercussions in his and his family's lives.


Also, he dodged Chris' question about others failing to see a massive UFO -- someone should have made a report or come forward with a story. His explanation about seeing what you want to see was interesting, but it's simply too broad a theory to explain away a complete lack of additional sightings across a densely populated area.

If the brain can ignore the sight of a massive UFO... couldn't it also generate one?
It is not as easy, I think, to generate a continuing impression/hallucination of a massive UFO as it is for people to ignore objects they either don't notice (at a distance) or don't know how to respond to. Wasn't RS in the company of seven other men who witnessed the same thing he did?
 

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
I agree the whole "not the right time" thing is way past played. However I didn't get the vibe from Mr. Stanford that I usually get when someone makes that claim. It seems like he knows he has something legit and doesn't particularly care if anyone doubts him which indicates that he either has something huge and knows when it's released people will agree, or at the very least really believes he does. Going on reputation alone I am inclined to believe him. He strikes me as very intelligent and detail oriented and has a great deal of experience to pull from. So if he believes it's something significant I am willing to trust him.
That's exactly where I'm at.

My cognitive dissonance regarding Mr. Stanford is simple. He's an amateur scientist, and well-known and published in the field of palaeontology. Science is supposed to wait to publish and be quiet about it until they do. He's not that quiet, but won't publish his propulsion evidence (which, if true, knocks my socks off!) But he will present his evidence in other fields.

I'm inclined to believe him, and I'm inclined to think that he just doesn't care that much about his detractors and will publish in his own time. If Chris and James Fox say they've seen it, good enough for me.

But it must come out at some point if it's going to help the debate any.
 

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