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Phillip Corso and Bill Birnes


jratcliff63367

Skilled Investigator
Bill Birnes is an interesting character. He is a sponsor on the Paracast and involved in the 'UFO Hunters' TV show. The TV show itself is a mixed bag. It is made as pure entertainment but, then again, generally presents some interesting case material. I'm particularly annoyed, when watching it, that every time a piece of special effects footage comes up, there is no overlay to distinguish it from the, supposedly, actual real footage that might accompany the show in other areas.

I'm most curious, however, with Bill Birnes involvement with the Corso affair. What bothers me is this. The entire Corso story is a clear and blatant load of horeshit. It simply doesn't pass the sniff test for two seconds. It never did, and never will. So, why did Bill Birnes allow himself to be involved in this affair?

Why did he never bother to 'call' Corso out on his many blatantly false claims? In fact, every claim that Corso made is clearly a load of absolute bull shit.

Does Bill Birnes possess no critical thinking skills? I am truly puzzled as to why this story was ever allowed to reach the light of day.

What possessed Corso to tell this story? Who put him up to it? Why did Birnes allow himself to become involved in it?

Have these questions been answered before and I just missed it? I mean, I know that Coro's story itself is a load of horse-shit, what I want to know is *who* is responsible for shoveling this pile of crap, and why?

Has anyone ever pursued the whole story behind this Corso affair or was it just dumped into the sub-culture and left to rot and fester like everything else?

Look at the amount of effort put into debunking the Meir case (and god knows why people even bother) and the incredible work done by Phillip Mantle in deconstructing the so called 'Alien Autopsy'. Why has no one ever done the same degree of due diligence over this Corso nonsense?

Does Bill Birnes get off the hook simply by saying he was 'telling the story'? Did Bill Birnes never ask Corso, even once, hey, Phillip, you know everything you are saying it patently and provably false!??

Did anyone ever ask that Corso provide even a single confirming witness to corroborate his tall tale? How about the people who received Nobel Laureates for the work he claims was derived from reverse engineered 'alien' technology?

What do you think?

(A) Did Corso tell this story because it was true?

(B) Did Corso tell this story because Bill Birnes talked him into it to make a buck as a blatant and self-serving scam?

(C) Did Corso tell this story, good intelligence officer that he is and just as he was asked to, so as to peddle yet another piece of UFO mythology as part of an ongoing dissinformation effort? An effort designed to make the UFO community look only slightly more fucking stupid than it already is to begin with?

What I can tell you is that the answer is either B or C, but it is absolutely, 100%, guaranteed, *not* (A) because a few simple things like facts, logic, history, and reason rule it out at face value.

John
 
I haven't seen much evidence that Bill Birnes' critical faculties are in much better shape than those of Paola Harris.
I remember reading The Day After Roswell and thinking "bollocks" very early on. The alarm bells went off with the...was it the foreword? by Strom Thurmond (who, me not being American, was totally unknown to me - so I had no idea at that time that this man Corso admired so much was an old segregationist). Anybody reading that could tell that the person who wrote it clearly believed they were writing it for a collection of war memoirs (which I believe was what Corso originally intended). Then we get to the information/stories recycled from other people's accounts, the Hey-I-Saw-Bodies-Too bit, the deeply implausible reverse engineering story, a heavy dollop of reds under the bed in the best McCarthyite tradition, and top it off with a nice dose of How I Saved The World (Except For All You Dirty Commie Traitors).
To put it another way, why are we even bothering to discuss Corso as if he had any credibility?

So on the whole I lean towards B).
 
Well are you going to provide some proof that the story is "absolute horse shit", or are we just supposed to take your word for it?

I dont have any attachment to the case and havent read the book. And TBH Ive seen Corso JNR speak on UFO conf. video and the dude comes across as a complete and utter nutball, positioning himself as the ultimate knowledge keeper and trying to give hints for angles the media can pursue.

But although that doesnt look good for Corso SNR it doesnt break the story. If it was completely provably false and was easy to do Im positivie Birnes wouldnt have published it and put his name to it.
 
I dont have any attachment to the case and havent read the book. And TBH Ive seen Corso JNR speak on UFO conf. video and the dude comes across as a complete and utter nutball...


Are you sure you don't have an attachment? 'Cause that really sounds attached.

:D
 
Well are you going to provide some proof that the story is "absolute horse shit", or are we just supposed to take your word for it?

The story is horshit because Corso claims that various technologies came about due to the exposure of Roswell alien technology to the scientific community. In each case these technologies have a well documented history of how they came about, the good old fashioned way of hard science, trial and error, and decades of slow and steady progress.

It is an insult to the hard work of the scientists and engineers who were responsible for the development of these technologies to claim they were not the authors of this work.

John
 
Yes people have asked Corso for names. Nothing ground breaking has occurred due to this to my knowledge and recollection. Most, if not all the names he gave were of people who are dead. If anyone knows otherwise please post.

As for Birnes, I'm not a psychic, so I don't know for sure what's going on with him. My crap guess is, he believes Corso to a large extent.
 
I say with some confidence that Birnes, more than any player out there, is a business man who is simply out to make a buck. He will peddle crap he doesn't believe in for money. He admitted on the show that he publishes shit in UFO magazine. And, it definitely is shit. I subscribed for 6 issues a while back and every magazine was filled with shit save one or two good articles per issue.
 
Bill birnes i dont find him interesting at all. So many topics and name dropping. That it got a little annoying at times!!! especially when asked a hard question on one subject. He headed off in a different direction so to avoid answering the hard question. I wonder if anyone noticed that besides me?

Time travel if possible will not happen in 100 years Bill birnes believes it is possible?
I think differently if somehow time travel was created somehow either by humans from the future or by entitys not of this earth, it would be more likely be a future not of a hundred years more likely thousands of years if not more? And if entitys of unknown origin are comeing in time machines what scenarios does that open up??

Corso i think had real information? But i think he got it all confused In his mind due to his ego and him wanting some type of role in the history books But the history books i mention are history books centred around ufology. His ego replaced the real story!!!

Corso more and likely heared or even had conversations with individuals on this subjects we discuss on the forums. But who gave him the knowledge on such subjects.It a good question??.
My guess probably ( top individuals who served within all areas of the armed forces. That is how i believe he got the information and it got a little weird because Corso moved it on to a stage where he actually believed he was involved in the inner workings of the goverment and he solely managed the ufo classified programs. That seems ludricious at best.



We have no evidence for Corso. It is his word, and nobody else's. Take it or leave it!!!you could say.Another question does the history back up his claims of Corso.
It simple take one of Corso theories or facts according to him, and analyse the history of the product if that is all possible???
The timeline of the product, the people involved any interviews, does any research remain somewhere. Corsos claim are big!! Was ufo technology used in the makeing of items such as the intregated circuit??? Look at the evidence, if that is possible???

lazaar and lear
Well lear seems to be a fraud and gives little value to this field!! Yes lazaar seems to have bizarre motives. But i wonder sometimes is bob.L not as crazy as we might think???
 
I say with some confidence that Birnes, more than any player out there, is a business man who is simply out to make a buck. He will peddle crap he doesn't believe in for money. He admitted on the show that he publishes shit in UFO magazine. And, it definitely is shit. I subscribed for 6 issues a while back and every magazine was filled with shit save one or two good articles per issue.
DITTO that .
 
i have the day after roswell in hardback, and i enjoyed it. and to be honest i have no intelectual hurdles as far as the claims go.
it seems plausible to me, is it true ? couldnt say.

i do like the time travellers theory very much, it satisfys so many of the loose ends for me.
and i dont think time is as flimsy as we might think.
were i to use such a machine and go back and have myself aborted, i dont think i would cease to exist in the future, i think time would loop and my "history" would simply be a little more complex.

also once you have time travel you live in a different "dimension" so to speak, you literally move to an environment "outside" time as we know it.
going back and fiddling with things in the past doesent affect that "place" its outside of time and not affected by it.

and the suggestion was made in one of the "autopsy" reports that one of the occupants was a human foetus that had been subjcted to forced maturation without normal gestation, and then artificially enhanced.
the eyeballs were not matured and appeared to have been sutured with artificial lenses of an unknown type.

sound far fetched ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/feb/10/medicalscience.research

then add this

http://www.earthsave.org/newsletters/sperm.htm


so how long will it be before we have to "make" our next generation

i really enjoyed some of the ideas in this episode.
 
You know what is funny, is that I wrote this post before I even knew Bill Birnes was on the current podcast. I have just listened to the podcast and, my God, is it exhausting. Bill Birnes seriously needs to take a giant chill pill, he talks so fast and runs off on so many tangents that it is like trying to chase Speedy Gonzalas.

It is interesting, however, that he seems to be so well informed, even if his critical thinking skills appear to have left the building.

John
 
Birnes is quite a mouthful, a lot of different theories and claims were brought up in this episode, some of which were interesting.

Bill's bullshit filter isn't as high as the Paracast, he seems very comfortable accepting information from people who come with a lot of bogus baggage. Let's take Al Webre for example, yes he worked under the Cater administration, but he also talks about the mothership and remote viewing peaceful ethically advanced beings as though it's a 100% fact, so he's someone I would avoid bringing up in any credible discussion, despite his Carter link.

The leap to Carter's presidenecy being sabatoged because of UFO interest seems pretty far fetched to me. But................ I do dig the time travel idea and think that is a real posibility.

What if the reason they can't disclose is because it would alter our future in a negative way? I think this could be the deal.

In the future, maybe nuclear war ravaged the world and we evovled into 'greys' and are working in our time to prevent a future war while also allowing humans to ethically evolve on our own without killing ourselves off first and any real disclosure would alter the future in a negative way.................. sounds like a movie :)


In terms of the logistics of how time travel works etc... I have no idea, although I intuitvely feel that time is like a wave, if you ditch your wave and jump on another you can't go back to your initial wave, it's gone, but I'm talking out of my ass admitedly.

Regarding Lear, who knows, that guy seems crazy and paranoid and the fact he went with Lazar to check out some flying craft and at one point was a pilot for the CIA doesn't really make him relevent to me in light of his wacky ass claims. The fact he could be a 'disinfo' agent is intriguing, but with no concrete evidence you could say a lot of people may be 'disinfo' agents.
 
Regarding Lear, who knows, that guy seems crazy and paranoid and the fact he went with Lazar to check out some flying craft and at one point was a pilot for the CIA doesn't really make him relevent to me in light of his wacky ass claims. The fact he could be a 'disinfo' agent is intriguing, but with no concrete evidence you could say a lot of people may be 'disinfo' agents.
RUmor has it Lazar made up the story to mess with Lear for a laugh. Lear then ran and told Knapp which Lazar wasn't planning on.

I've seen part of the video at groom mountains that was mentioned I think. The vid is highly unimpressive to me, though Stanton Friedman includes it in at least one of his vids. The vid in conjunction with the witness report is somewhat interesting. The object made sudden jumps, however this can't be determined by looking at the vid. My impression at least was that the camera man jerked the camera.
 
I feel our hosts' pain. Birnes talks as fast as he can nonstop as if he didn't have enough time to get it all out. He's enthusiastic and he tends to dominate and be authoritarian in his delivery. His biggest problem is that he is incapable of summarizing or being concise. He gets off on details that don't matter and has a hard time staying on task. He doesn't get that we don't want a precise account of every breath he has ever taken. He's kind of like one of those small hyperactive puppies that goes neurotic on you, running up and down the hallways yipping. Emotionally I wanted to whack Birnes with a nerf bat and send him to his room to calm down. If I could grade his presentation I'd give him a 'D' for rambling. His UFO Magazine looks the same way he speaks. It's dense with small-point text from margin to margin, mostly filled with BS. I got his special offer and dropped it. I just couldn't handle it. I couldn't wrap my brain around these long, rambling pedantic articles. They're just too boring.

Our hosts don't move that fast, nor should they. They tend to want to explore a specific aspect very completely. They want to stay on topic. They want to focus on an issue from every angle. They don't appreciate someone bouncing all over the UFO map. Yet here is Birnes going from Corso to Doty in the middle of a sentence. No wonder our hosts are exasperated.

The thing is, both of them want to be in charge (hosts and guest). Both of them want to be seen as knowledgable in the field. You get two alphas together like this, there are bound to be sparks. The thing is, Birnes is a lawyer. Not that he's any smarter than anyone else, but he's adept at verbal sparing and can't be intimidated just by someone expressing emotion and getting upset with him. Some would call that 'weasling' instead of 'sparing.' I don't disagree. So David can't get a word in edgewise because Birnes basically ignored him. Of course, David's word is usually negative. He plays 'bad cop.'

So David disconnected, and Birnes 'wins.' This is the second time he's gotten upset at a guest recently, the last being Beckley. But both times it was primarily because of reasons outside the Paracast. With Beckley it apparently was because of a personal experience or conversation with him years ago. This time Gene had to explain to us what the issue was, that Lear had called David an agent. Well, we didn't know that. To a listener without this extra information, this behavior is incongruous. Even with it it is. Is it Birnes' fault Lear called David an agent? Birnes just had the audacity to bring up Lear's name. (Hey, Lear is a dingbat at best; we know that.)

In any case, Birnes used the Paracast to leap from subject to subject all over the map. In this particular episode, I do not think he was effective. Next time put his neck in a noose, his wrists in handcufs, and say, "We are going to talk about THIS and about NOTHING ELSE!! or we kick the can you're standing on!"
 
rumor has it lazar made up the story to mess with lear for a laugh. Lear then ran and told knapp which lazar wasn't planning on.

I've seen part of the video at groom mountains that was mentioned i think. The vid is highly unimpressive to me, though stanton friedman includes it in at least one of his vids. The vid in conjunction with the witness report is somewhat interesting. The object made sudden jumps, however this can't be determined by looking at the vid. My impression at least was that the camera man jerked the camera.


you dont have a link to the vid by any chance arron love to have a look at it?
 
This time Gene had to explain to us what the issue was, that Lear had called David an agent. Well, we didn't know that. To a listener without this extra information, this behavior is incongruous. Even with it it is. Is it Birnes' fault Lear called David an agent? Birnes just had the audacity to bring up Lear's name. (Hey, Lear is a dingbat at best; we know that.)

Hey, I'm new here, but this seems as good a time as any to jump in.

If the reason cited above is the whole story here, then I'm stumped. If Lear is a nutball with zero credibility (which he is, although it's still a hoot to listen to the guy hold forth) then why exactly would David give a rat's ass whether Lear brands him "an agent?" That makes absolutely no sense to me.

Frankly, it's disappointing that Gene and David allowed this program to get so far out of hand. This isn't live radio; they could, at any point, stop the interview, either to read Birnes the riot act or simply to give everyone a time out. Maybe that's "cheating," if you get off on the heat of the moment and want something like a live radio experience, but in terms of maintaining some professionalism, it beats the hell out of stomping off in a huff.

Come to think of it, what on earth justifies Birnes making what feels like his 400th visit to The Paracast? If the word "Roswell" is like a sleeping pill for me at this point, the sound of Birnes' voice is the six-pack chaser. If he's the only option on The Paracast's guest list, maybe it's better just to take the week off, guys. Really.
 
Come to think of it, what on earth justifies Birnes making what feels like his 400th visit to The Paracast? If the word "Roswell" is like a sleeping pill for me at this point, the sound of Birnes' voice is the six-pack chaser. If he's the only option on The Paracast's guest list, maybe it's better just to take the week off, guys. Really.

I agree that Birnes seems to have on a few times too many, and each time the same material is discusses (Corso etc).

I was really hoping this time Gene and Dave would ask him different questions. For example, whats this story about seeing an NSA anit-grav platform above a mountain in Vegas, and did it really blink on and off for your benefit? Who told you it was NSA?

One thing I did learn from this discussion though was that Lear is with the CIA and has a Top Secret(I think?) clearance. That sheds a new light on pretty much everything he says. Although I still believe there is an atmosphere on the moon and you can breathe up there for a little while. Really, I do!

(or not)
 
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