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October 3, 2010 Show - Final Events

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It is amazing and scary that any group funded by taxpayer money would put so much weight in the superstitious beliefs of Parsons, Crowley, and the nightmares and dreams of other people as Nick relates in his book. Perhaps the problem of figuring out the UFO phenomena is so great that the government will grasp at any straw in an attempt to understand it. However, I find it absolutely incredible that any military group or command hierarchy would give it any serious consideration. "If" there were proof of some sort of inter-dimensional intrusion I would bet good money that the U.S. Military would not be looking to ecclesiastical (just to be kind) methods in dealing with it. Not by a long shot. If any them were actually to do that I think we'd be in bigger trouble (from incompetence) than we could possibly imagine. To me that remains the real story in Final Events and not the soul-eating-demon meme.

---------- Post added at 12:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------
Angel of Ioren said:
Too bad they didn't catch those flying humanoids on camera - if anything will change my mind about the paranormal, something like that would.
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I've seen some footage of "flying humanoids" on youtube. The balloons and remote controlled devices aside there are several different technologies that we have that would explain it. There have been a couple of one man flying platforms and flying "packs" that have been developed over the years that resemble the things in some of those videos. I think these flying humanoid sightings could be military or private personal flying devices in development.
 
trainedobserver said:
It is amazing and scary that any group funded by taxpayer money would put so much weight in the superstitious beliefs of Parsons, Crowley, and the nightmares and dreams of other people as Nick relates in his book. Perhaps the problem of figuring out the UFO phenomena is so great that the government will grasp at any straw in an attempt to understand it. However, I find it absolutely incredible that any military group or command hierarchy would give it any serious consideration. "If" there were proof of some sort of inter-dimensional intrusion I would bet good money that the U.S. Military would not be looking to ecclesiastical (just to be kind) methods in dealing with it. Not by a long shot. If any them were actually to do that I think we'd be in bigger trouble (from incompetence) than we could possibly imagine. To me that remains the real story in Final Events and not the soul-eating-demon meme.

---------- Post added at 12:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------



I've seen some footage of "flying humanoids" on youtube. The balloons and remote controlled devices aside there are several different technologies that we have that would explain it. There have been a couple of one man flying platforms and flying "packs" that have been developed over the years that resemble the things in some of those videos. I think these flying humanoid sightings could be military or private personal flying devices in development.
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That's the first thing I thought of when I heard it.
 
trainedobserver said:
It is amazing and scary that any group funded by taxpayer money would put so much weight in the superstitious beliefs of Parsons, Crowley, and the nightmares and dreams of other people as Nick relates in his book. Perhaps the problem of figuring out the UFO phenomena is so great that the government will grasp at any straw in an attempt to understand it.
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Was the Collins elite an atheist group that eventually became hard core fundamentalist christian.... or were they of christian faith to start with ?

If the Collins elite was pre-tainted with 'tribulation/rapture/end of times' ideology, I'd have a real hard time imagining how they could come to any other conclusion than the one they came up with LOL.

For these types, anything outside the religious realm is automatically tagged as demons :rolleyes:

tribulation_map.jpg

Hilarious stuff LOL !!!.... a bit like George W. Bush's faith-based initiatives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Office_of_Faith-Based_and_Neighborhood_Partnerships
http://www.theocracywatch.org/faith_base.htm

That's what happens when you mix church and state... your tax dollars fund crap like this LOL
 
I'm still awaiting my copy of the book, but from what Nick said on this episode, it seems to have start out as a group that started in the 50s investigating the occult aspect of the UFO phenomena, more or less out of personal interest that eventually moved in the direction of fundamentalist Christianity, through personnel changes, and also catalysed by the more fundamentalist friendly climate of the Regan/Bush era, so their conclusions were definitely coloured by their pre-exisiting beliefs.
 
Ezechiel said:
If the Collins elite was pre-tainted with 'tribulation/rapture/end of times' ideology, I'd have a real hard time imagining how they could come to any other conclusion than the one they came up with LOL. For these types, anything outside the religious realm is automatically tagged as demons
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I agree. That is how that stuff works.
 
You know after a little reflection on the subject in light of the revelations (no pun intended) contained in Final Events I think I know why the U.S. government is so reluctant to discuss what it knows/thinks about U.F.O.s and why Disclosure (spit, choke, cough) will never happen as some might imagine. It would be too damn embarrassing for them to admit. Maybe that's what the "disclosure" to Nick was all about. Maybe they put this out there as another "UFO book" so that if its ever revealed to the public at large they'll discount it as tin-foil hatted nonsense.
 
It realllllly PISSES me off that Christianity had been hijacked by thee most UN Christian people in the world. NeoCons, Libertarian TeabagPartiest athiests, Skull-And-Bones types, sacrificing the child efigy to the Owl God Molek < Probably misspelled, sorry...) (I'm not in a mood to carefully spellcheck just now) These types who are trying to walk back into the US WhiteHouse........they want to ELIMINATE Social Security, Medicare, privatize VA healthcare, other social safety nets. Would Jesus be for that??? NO WAY. DON'T BELIEVE ---LIES---. And 'the rapture'? Is crapture. It was invented by Tim LaHey types. Fiction goofs.
 
trainedobserver said:
You know after a little reflection on the subject in light of the revelations (no pun intended) contained in Final Events I think I know why the U.S. government is so reluctant to discuss what it knows/thinks about U.F.O.s and why Disclosure (spit, choke, cough) will never happen as some might imagine. It would be too damn embarrassing for them to admit. Maybe that's what the "disclosure" to Nick was all about. Maybe they put this out there as another "UFO book" so that if its ever revealed to the public at large they'll discount it as tin-foil hatted nonsense.
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LOL they are already embarrassed. If the Collins elite was government funded it clearly demonstrates religious meddling in public affairs. ...And it would mean that the government currently addresses the UFO phenomena with the conclusions of an outdated report (Condon) tainted by the religious framework of the times (whose points of reference could not be questioned).
 
Ezechiel said:
LOL they are already embarrassed
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The release of the story by the AFOSI defies explanation. It paints the lot of them in a bad light to say the least. Of course they could deny the entire affair and say the Nick Redfern never spoke to them. The FOIA documents and copies of documents given to him by C.E. members are hard to explain away however. It would be a different matter if this got some serious news coverage but then again would it? It's so "out-there" who can believe that a government "think tank" could come to such conclusions and plans of action? It's just all so *$&@ing incredible.
 
trainedobserver said:
The release of the story by the AFOSI defies explanation. It paints the lot of them in a bad light to say the least. Of course they could deny the entire affair and say the Nick Redfern never spoke to them. The FOIA documents and copies of documents given to him by C.E. members are hard to explain away however. It would be a different matter if this got some serious news coverage but then again would it? It's so "out-there" who can believe that a government "think tank" could come to such conclusions and plans of action? It's just all so *$&@ing incredible.
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The inclusion of OSI guys makes it all the more interesting imo. If I was making up a BS disinfo story, I wouldn't hesitate to add a 'suggestion' of incompetence or incredulity to highlight my shortcomings and add credence to the tale. By making myself look foolish, it deflects attention from the inadequacies of the story. That's good disinfo 101.

At the same time, I can't see who the 'target' would be in such a wild tale. It isn't ufology as far as we can tell. It isn't any particular researcher either...unless Nick is the focus. Even then, he's placed a wide margin between his reporting of the accounts and his faith in their truthfulness. If it was found to be utter bollocks, Nick Redfern isn't implicated at all.

Without an obvious target, it's hard to discount these claims. I guess it's possibly an 'Act 1' of a larger narrative that could unfold in the next few years? Much like Myrna Hansen in 1979 evolved into the saturation BS of the late 80s with Krill, Dulce, SERPO etc? I'm just guessing and giving the grey cells a work out. :)

So far, given what we know...it's conceivably true history that a small group of like-minded fundamentalist bed-wetters came together under a shared concept. Until we know more, I agree that it's probably true. Half of Europe spent decades under the rule of people with similar beliefs (as in demons and devils etc) so is it really that unbelievable?
 
Kandinsky said:
...so is it really that unbelievable?
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What I find so unbelievable is the "release" of the story by the AFOSI. I understand that there are many people whose world view is dictated by their religion and therefore have no problem accepting that UFOs are the ancient enemies of their god.

You've asked an excellent question in, "Who is the target?" The audience for a book like this is pretty small.
 
I've just checked the book on Amazon and thought it would be great if Nick sells this book in digital format as well, let's say as a PDF file on service like http://www.scribd.com I can't decide either to wait till it will be available for Kindle or buy a paperback version now ::)
 
I'm sure there was plenty of things that Nick accumulated on this story that didn't make it into the book. It would be cool to hear what some of those things were.
 
trainedobserver said:
What I find so unbelievable is the "release" of the story by the AFOSI. I understand that there are many people whose world view is dictated by their religion and therefore have no problem accepting that UFOs are the ancient enemies of their god.

You've asked an excellent question in, "Who is the target?" The audience for book like this is pretty small.
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Hmm, could it be down to one agency (or faction within the defence/intelligence apparatus) trying to discredit or embarass another for some reason? Plant it in the UFO literature and hope it (or arrange to have it) get picked up by more mainstream outlets further down the line? Mark Pilkington cites an interesting example of how disinfo works in Mirage Men, where the Soviets planted a bogus story in an obscure Indian newspaper which in turn was quoted by increasingly mainstream sources until it had made it's way into the Daily Express in the UK.
Having said that, I think the way Nick undercovered the story seems plausible (unless he's in on the act!). If you look it in context of the sheer number of people employed by the intelligence servies in the US and it's massive budgets, sooner or later someone was going to get money for some pretty fringe activities...
 
Here's a thought. Given this new information about his group, what evidence for its existence or activities can be gleaned from past cases? For example: Dorothy Izzat said she was contacted by a group of scientists in Calif. who told her the patterns shown in her "flash" frames were a written language. Was that C.E.? The Izzat case would certainly be a case they would be very interested.
 
trainedobserver said:
Here's a thought. Given this new information about his group, what evidence for its existence or activities can be gleaned from past cases. For example: Dorothy Izzat said she was contacted by a group of scientists in Calif. who told her the patterns shown in her "flash" frames were a written language. Was that C.E.? The Izzat case would certainly be a case they would be very interested.
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That'd be interesting to look at, I'd imagine there could well be stuff out there but may have been overlooked as run of the mill conspiracy/cover up/MIB tales. Can't think of anything off hand, but it was interesting what Chris mentioned about cops being pumped for info on cattle mutilations.
 
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