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no need to prove spirits


G

Gwops

Guest
Even If I am a minority of one, truth is still the truth.

Even If I am a minority of one, truth is still the truth.
 

Ankhes

Skilled Investigator
Hi, Gwops! I am a skeptic, and hope that I am not rude or stupid. I try not to be, at any rate! Anyway, are you willing to post the pic? I can't speak for anyone else, but I won't belittle you or be rude about it.
 

The Hawk

Skilled Investigator
I don't know about you or anyone else but I will belittle anyone claiming to have a picture of a ghost or whatever else paranormal who doesn't post it..

#1 rule of all message board posting:
Don't talk about extraordinary gaming cheat codes, secret areas, photographs or videos (you claim to have in your possession) without backing it up when asked or you deserve flaming.

For those who didn't know that's the number one rule; now you know.
Thanx
 
H

hopeful skeptic

Guest
no need to prove the existence of spirits

Gwops said:
I never asked for real proof of the existence of spirits, but I was always given more than one could dream of.
Now I have taken pictures of a beautiful ghost lady, a man and orbs at the same time. I can only thank them !

I have no need to prove their existence to skeptics, stupid or rude people.
People will reject the truth and those who claim to seek the truth and simply ignore it because their real intention is to make money.

I only like to thank these spirits and I know that they assist me. I might not be able to prove their existence to all people but to some who know I am trustworthy. I am happy to share this experience.

PS: You only receive as much as you are willing to accept.
I applaud this post. Granted, much of it is unintelligible, but I applaud it for having the honesty to state what most paranormalists lack the courage to admit: I have no evidence, I don't care about evidence, I won't produce any evidence and anyone who demonstrates my faulty reasoning and vacuous argumentation, or has the temerity to test my claims, has an agenda and a "closed mind."

Some paranormal believers should adopt this as their Bill of Rights, their Magna Carta, their Declaration of Independence.

Atta boy, Gwops! Let 'em know exactly where - and how - you stand.
 

idontunderstand

Skilled Investigator
no need to prove the existence of spirits

Gwops said:
Please note that I used commas in my listing and this puts the meaning into a different light.

I apologize if I gave anyone the impression that I call all skeptics stupid.

I withdraw from this message board for good and would like to thank Gene and David for the opportunity to experience the discussions of the paranormal experience. For me it is too difficult to openly discuss the sensitive issues in the presence of unrestrained flamers and attackers.
However, I would like to thank those people who responded to my quotes with dignity.

For those who wish to contact me on Skype, please check my profile or visit my website for contact details and more.

Regards
Gwops
Hi Gwops,

Dont leave the forum. I enjoy your posts. Sure not everyone is going to accept what you say is valid. And yes some people on this forum live up their own backsides and will lambaste anything you say (criticism of your english etc). You speak excellent english. I cant speak a word of german!

But if you genuinely believe you are on to something that is hard to explain then you have every right to post your views. Dont be bullied by anybody.

After all this forum is about alternative view points.

Cheers!
 
I

interestedINitall

Guest
no need to prove the existence of spirits

idontunderstand said:
Hi Gwops, And yes some people on this forum live up their own backsides and will lambaste anything you say (criticism of your english etc). You speak excellent english. I cant speak a word of german!
Cheers!
Oh my, this must be referring to hopeful_skeptic and possibly me for past admonishments.

I have news for you, idontunderstand. You don't "speak" English either.

:)

PS: Thanks, hopeful_skeptic. As usual, you've deftly articulated what I and most likely many others were thinking.
Oh, and Gwops isn't going to leave. He's just going to pout until someone validates his claims.
 

idontunderstand

Skilled Investigator
no need to prove the existence of spirits

interestedINitall said:
Oh my, this must be referring to hopeful_skeptic and possibly me for past admonishments.

I have news for you, idontunderstand. You don't "speak" English either.

:)

PS: Thanks, hopeful_skeptic. As usual, you've deftly articulated what I and most likely many others were thinking.
Oh, and Gwops isn't going to leave. He's just going to pout until someone validates his claims.
I dont believe I have spoken to you on this forum, and I seriously doubt I have been admonished by you.

It was a general statement regarding the bitching that happens on these forums and was not referring to anybody specifically. I dont speak english? What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Many people on this forum should be old enough to know better than to act like small children who have yet to mature. Yes many people laugh at gwops, but let the man formulate his own opinions in his own time. I see no profit in him being run of the forum.
 
I

interestedINitall

Guest
no need to prove the existence of spirits

idontunderstand said:
I dont believe I have spoken to you on this forum, and I seriously doubt I have been admonished by you.

It was a general statement regarding the bitching that happens on these forums and was not referring to anybody specifically. I dont speak english? What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Many people on this forum should be old enough to know better than to act like small children who have yet to mature. Yes many people laugh at gwops, but let the man formulate his own opinions in his own time. I see no profit in him being run of the forum.
You might want to read my post again. Very little of your response makes sense.

I did manage to extract something about "maturity" from your keystrokes. Where, may I ask, is the "maturity" in writing "I have proof of ghosts!", not offering any evidence and then having a little tantrum and threatening to leave when questioned? That sounds like the hijinks of a bored 12 year-old.
 
H

hopeful skeptic

Guest
no need to prove the existence of spirits

Oh my, this must be referring to hopeful_skeptic and possibly me for past admonishments.
Yep. I lauded his post, though. I thought it was great, and was the most courageous post from a paranormalist I've ever heard. I was being quite sincere.

PS: Thanks, hopeful_skeptic. As usual, you've deftly articulated what I and most likely many others were thinking. Oh, and Gwops isn't going to leave. He's just going to pout until someone validates his claims.
If he follows the course you suggest, and awaits evidence, then you, Gwops and I will all be in the same boat: sitting around, playing with our poles, awaiting hard evidence for paranormal claims. ;)
 
H

hopeful skeptic

Guest
no need to prove the existence of spirits

idontunderstand said:
Yes many people laugh at gwops, but let the man formulate his own opinions in his own time. I see no profit in him being run of the forum.
I don't, either, incidentally, but starting off a post by incorrectly generalizing the views of all skeptics, and mocking their simple insistence on hard evidence to corroborate claims of the paranormal isn't the best way to kick off a discussion of anything.

I strongly suggest that Gwops' post is transparent, honest and courageous. Gwops is admitting that evidence is not important to him, and exerts no influence on his belief in any number of paranormal phenomena. He doesn't feel a need to provide evidence or even possess evidence, and doesn't care a whit about clear evidence that contradicts what he believes. In short, like so many other paranormalists, he has faith in these phenomena. He has replaced (or supplemented) organized, traditional religion with a faith in paranormal phenomena that doesn't at all depend on reason and logic.

I find his post very illuminating.
 

idontunderstand

Skilled Investigator
no need to prove the existence of spirits

hopeful skeptic said:
I don't, either, incidentally, but starting off a post by incorrectly generalizing the views of all skeptics, and mocking their simple insistence on hard evidence to corroborate claims of the paranormal isn't the best way to kick off a discussion of anything.

I strongly suggest that Gwops' post is transparent, honest and courageous. Gwops is admitting that evidence is not important to him, and exerts no influence on his belief in any number of paranormal phenomena. He doesn't feel a need to provide evidence or even possess evidence, and doesn't care a whit about clear evidence that contradicts what he believes. In short, like so many other paranormalists, he has faith in these phenomena. He has replaced (or supplemented) organized, traditional religion with a faith in paranormal phenomena that doesn't at all depend on reason and logic.

I find his post very illuminating.
Hi HS,

I think I have a slight advantage over most people here, in that I speak to gwops on messenger quite a bit, and I have taken the time to get know him well.

Ive seen the pictures he has taken and they are quite impressive. I think he is under the impression that even if he produces the pictures he will be the at the butt end of mockery and scorn, because its been decided that hes a certain kind of person.

Ive asked him to post the pictures hes taken, but hes completely lost faith in this forum as an arena of open discussion. He feels its become personal about him, and therefore is leaving.

I dont think you can determine anything about his religious feelings HS, by his paranormal stance.

HS you are a true skeptic objective and honest. I feel some others on this board are mere attack dogs, blindly going after people while ignoring the core of what they are talking about.


Cheers!
 

idontunderstand

Skilled Investigator
no need to prove the existence of spirits

interestedINitall said:
You might want to read my post again. Very little of your response makes sense.

I did manage to extract something about "maturity" from your keystrokes. Where, may I ask, is the "maturity" in writing "I have proof of ghosts!", not offering any evidence and then having a little tantrum and threatening to leave when questioned? That sounds like the hijinks of a bored 12 year-old.
W.A.N.K.E.R
 
I

interestedINitall

Guest
no need to prove the existence of spirits

idontunderstand said:
W.A.N.K.E.R
Are you plugging your organization? You are aware that, as written, that's an acronym?
 
H

hopeful skeptic

Guest
no need to prove the existence of spirits

I think I have a slight advantage over most people here, in that I speak to gwops on messenger quite a bit, and I have taken the time to get know him well.
I'm sure that helps. The internet doesn't allow for much face-to-face time, and the written word sometimes lacks nuance.

Ive seen the pictures he has taken and they are quite impressive. I think he is under the impression that even if he produces the pictures he will be the at the butt end of mockery and scorn, because its been decided that hes a certain kind of person. Ive asked him to post the pictures hes taken, but hes completely lost faith in this forum as an arena of open discussion. He feels its become personal about him, and therefore is leaving.
Well, if he has evidence of ghosts, and it's not fabricated evidence, he should let it stand on its own merits, since objective fact is incontrovertible. Any skeptic would lose his legs in an argument against fact. If, on the other hand, he has photographs that are manipulated, or the result of known, explainable, natural phenomena, he has to be intellectually willing to accept criticism and alter his beliefs.

I think what he wants to believe is far more important to him than what he can reasonably know. I don't think any amount of contrary evidence, or lack of supporting evidence, will shake his belief in the paranormal. He simply wants - needs - to believe. And that's fine, as long as he understands what that belief rests on, and what it doesn't.

I dont think you can determine anything about his religious feelings HS, by his paranormal stance.
I only mean that his feelings about the paranormal rely on faith, just as a religious person's beliefs do, since they in no way involve evidence. No evidence? Faith. Evidence? Reason.

I sincerely hope he stays. He's funny as hell.
 

DBTrek

The Deacon of Beacon Hill
GWOPS may have layed a very intricate trap here. He may have posted something he knew would attract skeptics with the intention of announcing his immediate departure as soon as the skeptics took the bait. Perhaps he's waiting to see whether or not there will be a crackdown on skeptics now before he decides to return.

Maybe it's just my conspiratorial mind, but I see no other benefit to declaring "I have pictures proving the existence of ghosts, but none of you can see them!"

If his intention was to share his photographs he simply would have done so.

If his intention was to share his photographs without the fear of them being scrutinized then trying to get the skeptics silenced beforehand makes sense.

I tend to think the original post was bait.

-DBTrek
 
I

interestedINitall

Guest
DBTrek said:
GWOPS may have layed a very intricate trap here. He may have posted something he knew would attract skeptics with the intention of announcing his immediate departure as soon as the skeptics took the bait. Perhaps he's waiting to see whether or not there will be a crackdown on skeptics now before he decides to return.

Maybe it's just my conspiratorial mind, but I see no other benefit to declaring "I have pictures proving the existence of ghosts, but none of you can see them!"

If his intention was to share his photographs he simply would have done so.

If his intention was to share his photographs without the fear of them being scrutinized then trying to get the skeptics silenced beforehand makes sense.

I tend to think the original post was bait.

-DBTrek
This is interesting and plausible but I think it gives Gwops too much credit. ;)

It'll be fun to see what happens.
 

Ankhes

Skilled Investigator
Really, Gwops, I hope you won't leave the forum. People disagree about things and that's okay. That's one of the cool things about forums - you get different points of view. Please try to not take it personally.
Anyway, if you do stick around, I meant it when I asked if you would post the pic and that I would not be rude about it, regardless of whether or not I come to your conclusion about it.
If you stick around maybe we'll all learn a few things!
 
H

hopeful skeptic

Guest
DBTrek said:
I tend to think the original post was bait.
That's a take I hadn't considered at all. As the show moves forward, it will be interesting to see whether the points raised by skeptics (of various ilk and degrees) will continue to be tolerated on this forum. Try raising a skeptical viewpoint on the "Nighthawk" Forum. What fan-boys.

It's always easier when a group talks among themselves, preaches to themselves, and refuses to listen to - or answer - the critique of competing groups. I don't see much in the way of reasoned answers coming back toward the skeptical views, which may say a lot. Sometimes there are a few nuggets.

I do know that avoiding reasoned critique - or simply choosing to ignore the points raised by that critique - isn't intellectually challenging or honest, and doesn't make for much of a "search for truth."
 
H

hopeful skeptic

Guest
Ankhes said:
People disagree about things and that's okay. That's one of the cool things about forums - you get different points of view. Please try to not take it personally. Anyway, if you do stick around, I meant it when I asked if you would post the pic and that I would not be rude about it, regardless of whether or not I come to your conclusion about it.
That's the problem with the paranormal field. Any reasonable criticism of a claim is taken personally, because the proponents of these claims accept on faith the reality of the claim before fully investigating it; they are personally invested in the claim's validity. Paranormalism is nothing more than religion, with the characters and motivations changed to suit the individual's taste.

Someone predisposed to believe in ghosts, UFOs, spooks, specters or flying humanoids has a faith that is in no way different from any given member of an organized, traditional religion. It's all belief, sans evidence. Ask for that evidence, and you're accused of spreading "negativity" and being "close-minded." How droll.

How does anyone learn anything about the validity of their beliefs if they're not willing to hear and respond to contrary opinions?
 

CapnG

Devil's Advocate
DBTrek said:
Maybe it's just my conspiratorial mind, but I see no other benefit to declaring "I have pictures proving the existence of ghosts, but none of you can see them!"
Maybe he's just a jerk...
 

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