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May 27, 2018 — Dr. Jack Hunter with Goggs Mackay



Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
#1
Dr Hunter proved to be an extremely knowledgeable guest, and Goggs and I had a great time talking about a number of fascinating subjects, including one reason why mediums might actually have psychic abilities.

Goggs and I also hung out on this weekend's After The Paracast for lots of further discussion on various topics.

After The Paracast is an exclusive feature of The Paracast+. For more information about our premium subscription service, which includes a version of The Paracast free of network ads, please check:

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wwkirk

Paranormal Adept
#3
Prof. Braude also says that the proof of survival is inconclusive because mediums may be deriving information about the dead through telepathy or clairvoyance. The good news is that even that assumption establishes the existence of the paranormal.
 

Mr. Fibuli

Paranormal Adept
#4
I’m posting in this thread rather than the After the Paracast thread so that it can be noticed more quickly

I have a request of Goggs: could you please recount your interaction with Roan Atkinson at the polo match, please? (Thanks to public television, we definitely have Black Adder and Mr. abeam here in the US.)
 

Goggs Mackay

Administrator
Staff member
#5
I’m posting in this thread rather than the After the Paracast thread so that it can be noticed more quickly

I have a request of Goggs: could you please recount your interaction with Roan Atkinson at the polo match, please? (Thanks to public television, we definitely have Black Adder and Mr. abeam here in the US.)
It wasn't much but myself and one other crypto guy were in white uniform taking the relatively small number of tickets from the spectators that had seats - which wasn't many. 100-150 maximum I'd say. Anyway, I was just looking down as people filed past me one by one handing over tickets and I looked up and there was Blackadder himself not 12" in front of me! He does not court publicity in his private life at all and I immediately got the sense that it would not be appreciated if I started asking for autographs or photos etc. Don't get me wrong, there was zero hostility or impatience but it was self-evident he just wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. He was dressed very dapper, sporting a pinstripe sporting jacket of some kind only posh people wear, and a white Trilby hat.

Once everyone was seated, we stood out from of the two small stands as 'crowd control' but it was like policing plants at a garden store. Thats how civilised and calm everyone was. He was most definitely genuinely interested in the polo match and it is up there among the niche sports of the rich, like camel racing or falconry! I'd never watched a polo game but actually it was pretty good. Extremely physical with a fair chance of injury etc. I'm amazed they can actually swing those huge mallets while riding horseback and hit the ball with accuracy but they do.

Rowan was alone, sat unbothered by anyone or anything, watched the whole thing and then left. I think he probably moves in the society circles that bring you into contact with royalty etc. I hate Mr Bean as I feel it is beneath him but Blackadder is sublime and no-one can pronounce words such as 'nincompoop' or 'haemoglobin' like Atkinson.

Steven Fry and Hugh Laurie and the guy that plays Capt. Darling are just brilliant too.
 

Ron Away

Paranormal Adept
#6
It wasn't much but myself and one other crypto guy were in white uniform taking the relatively small number of tickets from the spectators that had seats - which wasn't many. 100-150 maximum I'd say. Anyway, I was just looking down as people filed past me one by one handing over tickets and I looked up and there was Blackadder himself not 12" in front of me! He does not court publicity in his private life at all and I immediately got the sense that it would not be appreciated if I started asking for autographs or photos etc. Don't get me wrong, there was zero hostility or impatience but it was self-evident he just wanted to be treated the same as everyone else. He was dressed very dapper, sporting a pinstripe sporting jacket of some kind only posh people wear, and a white Trilby hat.

Once everyone was seated, we stood out from of the two small stands as 'crowd control' but it was like policing plants at a garden store. Thats how civilised and calm everyone was. He was most definitely genuinely interested in the polo match and it is up there among the niche sports of the rich, like camel racing or falconry! I'd never watched a polo game but actually it was pretty good. Extremely physical with a fair chance of injury etc. I'm amazed they can actually swing those huge mallets while riding horseback and hit the ball with accuracy but they do.

Rowan was alone, sat unbothered by anyone or anything, watched the whole thing and then left. I think he probably moves in the society circles that bring you into contact with royalty etc. I hate Mr Bean as I feel it is beneath him but Blackadder is sublime and no-one can pronounce words such as 'nincompoop' or 'haemoglobin' like Atkinson.

Steven Fry and Hugh Laurie and the guy that plays Capt. Darling are just brilliant too.

And of course no one can say "Bob" as well as Blackadder did!.
 

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
Staff member
#7
There are a lot of young paranormal enthusiasts. I've become friends that have their own paranormal podcasts and they are quite well versed in many aspects of it.
 
#8
I thought that Dr. Hunter had a lot of interesting things to say, and it’s nice to hear from somebody new who’s looking at things from a novel perspective.

But honesty this episode drove home a couple of the big problems that I see with the show.

The Paracast has become an echo chamber for the extremely fringe “co-creation hypothesis” crowd within the ufology community. Everyone on this episode shared the same perspective, and hearing a group of people agreeing with each other isn’t interesting. And hearing Gene lavish praise upon anyone and everyone who blindly adheres to the co-creation hypothesis/mythology is starting to give me indigestion. Likewise, hearing everyone on this show agree that ETH proponents are shallow, mouth-breathing religious fanatics, is becoming genuinely intolerable.

Trying to explain an unexplained phenomenon with an unexplainable theory is not forward progress. You guys are basically trying to explain ufo sightings as ghost sightings. I think that’s patently absurd, because that doesn’t explain anything. It’s evoking a mystery to try to explain another mystery, which is at best a lateral move (and at worst, it’s a backward move toward the superstitious thinking of the Dark Ages). Nobody has yet been able to explain, even tacitly, how this alleged “co-creation hypothesis” actually works: it’s a fairy tale.

On the other hand, a rapidly expanding sphere of scientific knowledge across multiple disciplines continues to build a solid empirical foundation for the validity of the ETH. We now know that at least 40 billion Earth-like planets reside in the habitable zones of their parent stars in this galaxy alone, and there are 1-2 trillion galaxies in the observable universe (which is only a miniscule fraction of the entire universe). We now know that the organic chemicals required for the formation of life are ubiquitous throughout the universe. We also now have a theoretical physics model for a method of superluminal spaceflight. And we have radar-visual cases that conform to the predicted physical performance characteristics of that form of propulsion principle. And we have a plethora of compelling cases like the Zimbabwe school sighting of 1994 where alien beings have emerged from structured metallic craft. The diversity and sheer magnitude of the scientific and anecdotal evidence for the ETH is frankly overwhelming at this point.

And yet on The Paracast, the people who recognize this clear and convincing body of diverse evidence are openly mocked and ridiculed…in favor of a co-creation hypothesis that can’t even be cogently explained. And what’s even worse – nobody can offer a logical argument against the ETH, so the co-creation adherents resort to vapid rhetorical attacks instead, using BS inflammatory phrases like “true believers” (to make ETH advocates sound like religious zealots when in fact the vast bulk of the credible data supports their position), or “space aliens” (to make the idea of extraterrestrial intelligent life sound silly, just like the “little green men” catchphrase that preceded it), and “nuts and bolts” (to make the idea of advanced alien technology sound like a crude explanation). All such rhetorical attacks are empty emotional appeals employed to disguise the fact that co-creation adherents have no logical basis to challenge the ETH, nor an intelligible alternative theory of their own. But it sounds neat-o so it’s the go-to explanation on The Paracast.

Until somebody can offer a phenomenological explanation of it that doesn’t directly conflict with all known laws of physics, the co-creation hypothesis remains a classic example of “the Emperor has no clothes.”

That said, I do agree with this point that was made on the show: there appears to be a spectrum of different phenomena happening in our skies from time to time. Some may be natural phenomena, others very clearly appear to be extraterrestrial technology operating in our airspace, quite a few are certainly advanced military projects, and still others may be forms of life and/or some kind of hologram that we don’t yet understand.

But to suggest that extraterrestrial technology isn’t a central phenomenon under the umbrella of ufology, is a logically and empirically unsupportable position. And I challenge anyone – Gene, Goggs, Dr. Hunter, etc., to engage in a rational debate with me on this subject. Because frankly I’m tired of the snarky dismissals and the disingenuous mockery of the only fully rational and cogent explanation that’s on the table.

And since somebody needs to say it, I will: the vast majority of people on this planet who take this subject seriously, favor the ETH for the reasons I've listed, among others. So The Paracast alienates >95% of the millions of potential audience members by routinely deriding this clearly superior, consummately logical explanation. That's a steep price to pay for a rigid ideological bias that flies in the face of fact and reason.
 
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Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
#9
We have always presented a variety of views about UFOs and other topics, and we are not going to favor any particular theory because it sells.
 
#10
We have always presented a variety of views about UFOs
Gene, the bias against the ETH on this show is so thick that you could cut it with a knife.

and we are not going to favor any particular theory because it sells.
I'm not saying that you should give the ETH a fair shake because it sells; I'm saying that you should do it because it's by far the superior explanation and supported by a vast wealth of scientific evidence and analytical reasoning.

And I'm saying that clearly disfavoring this consummately rational explanation does both a disservice to the field, and as a by-product, your own success.
 

technomage

Paranormal Adept
#11
I think the co-creation and other explanations that require new physics to be developed to explain them are at the bottom of the list of likely explanations. I think ETH, Breakaway Civilization and even crypoterrestrial hypotheses are more likely since we don't have to invent a brand new physics to explain them. I get the impression that since we didn't get absolute proof of ETH, investigators and theorists got tired and bored, so they had to come up with new theories, since aliens visiting the Earth is so "old-news" and not interesting anymore.

I would be pretty surprised if Jacques Vallee would be sorely disappointed if aliens came to this planet and said they were masquerading as fairies and pixies throughout history and were doing seemingly primitive experiments to test our responses. I think like all of us, he would say "Wow!"
 

Ron Away

Paranormal Adept
#14
Gene, the bias against the ETH on this show is so thick that you could cut it with a knife.


I'm not saying that you should give the ETH a fair shake because it sells; I'm saying that you should do it because it's by far the superior explanation and supported by a vast wealth of scientific evidence and analytical reasoning.

And I'm saying that clearly disfavoring this consummately rational explanation does both a disservice to the field, and as a by-product, your own success.
As always you have put the case for ETH so eloquently in a way I never could.Nail on the head.
I appreciate we don’t have the smoking gun but the circumstantial evidence massively in my opinion points firmly toward ETH.
 
#15
I think the co-creation and other explanations that require new physics to be developed to explain them are at the bottom of the list of likely explanations. I think ETH, Breakaway Civilization and even crypoterrestrial hypotheses are more likely since we don't have to invent a brand new physics to explain them. I get the impression that since we didn't get absolute proof of ETH, investigators and theorists got tired and bored, so they had to come up with new theories, since aliens visiting the Earth is so "old-news" and not interesting anymore.
That's a big part of it: there's nothing "shiny and new" about the ETH, other than the rapidly expanding body of empirical and theoretical evidence that has grown in favor of it in recent years.

But the other part is the following warped logic, which goes a bit like this: "we don't like what MUFON is doing, and we don't like jag-off opportunists like David Wilcock, and since they favor the ETH, we don't." But it's totally irrational to reject a hypothesis because you don't like some of its most contemptible opportunistic adherents. There are crazy and/or contemptible opportunists who believe in all kinds of valid theories like quantum field theory and general relativity...but you don't reject QFT and GR because you don't like those people. The validity of a theory is totally independent from the worst examples of people who advocate for it. The vast majority of people who generally favor the ETH do so because it makes so much sense and the scientific evidence in favor of it has grown so dramatically over the last 70 years.

I appreciate we don’t have the smoking gun but the circumstantial evidence massively in my opinion points firmly toward ETH.
I think it's important to note that proving the origin of something like this is impossible, so demanding evidence of origin is unreasonable. All we can reasonably be expected to do, is to prove what these sightings are not: our top pilots and defense intelligence people have concluded that they're not human technology, and I tend to agree - I see no reason to believe that any secret military program has managed to pioneer and actually implement a new field of physics that permits the kinds of inertia-defying, gravity-defying performance characteristics widely reported since the 1940s, if not earlier. And they're frequently detected by radar, so we know that something physical is involved, which bars ghostly and/or visionary explanations. That doesn't leave us with many explanations: they're either extraterrestrial, or they belong in the improbable cryptoterrestrial category (for which we see little if any supporting evidence). We can't even rationally consider something like the co-creation hypothesis because nobody has ever been able to describe an even tacitly rational model of how that might actually work in practice.

So by habitually maligning the ETH, The Paracast has rejected the one explanation that is both perfectly reasonable and well-supported by the vast bulk of the available scientific, theoretical, and anecdotal evidence. What's left is a tiny fringe audience that has to struggle to suspend their disbelief in order to entertain the crazy science-fiction-sounding notion that the human mind working in concert with some unspecified non-physical form of supernatural intelligence can somehow manifest what appear to be solid and illuminated metallic craft that somehow show up on radar and leave landing impressions and occasionally residue on the ground when they land. I try to keep an open mind, but I also prefer to keep my brains from spilling out of my ears as well.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
#16
I don’t have time go get into the weeds on this.

The show presents a variety of views.

I don’t say it’s not possible. But there are other possibilities that appear to answer more questions.
 
O

O'Rilly

Guest
#18
Interesting show.

Well, even from my theistic perspective I have trouble envisioning what “co-creation” entails, though perhaps Greg will answer Thomas’s question in detail to help us grasp the concept.

Since the Bible was mentioned during the interview I will make a comment.

If consciousness pervades material reality, à la Dean Radin and co., then perhaps the universe, including us, results from the will of a primordial Conscious Being.

Thus for example: “For in him we live and move and have our being.” (Acts 17:28).

This is Paul’s account of “where” the Deity resides, or more correctly where we “reside” in him. Whether you take this as gospel or not, it suggests that the basement Continuum of Reality could be infinite and eternal and willful. That further suggests, as I’ve mentioned before, that sentience/consciousness does not depend on the standard model particle zoo. If not, then the entire creation could be layered-up from the originating Deity with various kinds of sentient entities at various levels relative to the basement continuum. Humans would be one class of such beings. If we “live and move and exist” within the Deity, then perhaps other sentient entities of different classes likewise can penetrate and permeate humans, desired or undesired, rightfully or wrongly. This would comport with the spiritualism that Dr. Hunter is studying and participating in, where sentient beings are said to enter, influence and control humans. Whether or not such experiences should be sought is a different question. Nevertheless, even in my “Abrahamic” view of reality, it is too simplistic to resort to a mere angel-demon dichotomy, though I do think there is a “holy – unholy” divide. But lumping every sentient entity into angelic or demonic categories is not what seems to have been understood.

If there are such entities, and I’ve become convinced that there are, then a lot of weird phenomena could be attributed to their influence.
 
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