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Mark Pilkington Episode



J.T.

Maybe Logic
Quick note of thanks for the excellent Mark Pilkington episode. It clarified a lot of online discussions about the man and his work, and as a result I will be getting a copy of the book. I liked what he said, I disagreed with some of the opinions, but I can't imagine there'd ever to be a quest whose opinions I'd completely agree with. He is navigating his way through the UFO fog and appears to have a deeper understanding of some of the clockwork mechanisms behind the scenes, which is more than 90% of the books out there can say for themselves.

Nick's insights for the contactee issue were much appreciated, and Gene's sharp questioning remains intelligent, entertaining and engaging. I always enjoy the back and forth between the guests and the hosts -- you can't beat a good discussion. The general flow of the discussion is also noticeably improving with our hosts getting more used to the standard breaks. I'm learning the breaks myself and can scuttle past them in about 10 seconds. Very little disruption.
 

Capnkumquat

Skilled Investigator
It does my little pea pickin' heart good to hear a guest approach this subject from a reasonably skeptical angle and then say..."You know, there really might be something to this UFO thing."

Excellent show, good questions, level headed guest, nice discussion, and practically no insanity to speak of. Thanks guys, nice work!
 

CapnG

Devil's Advocate
Good episode. I found the idea of the radar-jamming-device-that-makes-fake-ufos a little hard to swallow though. I'm not saying such a device couldn't exist but given the havoc it would wreak with air travel alone, to say nothing of the interference it would cause during military operations I have trouble accepting it would actually be employed, it simply wouldn't be worth the extra headaches.
 

Kandinsky

Curious Cat
I fired up the interview this morning and enjoyed it. I'll need to hear it again to make any strong comments.

One part that caught my attention was Mark's references to FBI and contactees like Adamski.

In a Flying Saucer Review from 1960, there's a reference to CIA interest in Adamski. Apparently, Thomas Eickhoff consulted a lawyer with the intention of taking Adamski to Federal Court for lying about having two scientists witness him boarding a saucer ( from Inside the Space Ships). Allegedly, the case was opposed by none other than Allen W. Dulles (Director of CIA 1953-61). Eickhoff was told via his lawyer that Dulles would effect an injunction to prevent him if he tried.

According to Eickhoff, Dulles expressed concerns that the UFO subject was 'maximum security.'

This, to me, implies that Adamski's stories were actively endorsed by the CIA. Disinformation? Mirages?

I think it was Nick Redfern who pulled a FOIA on Adamski's files and discovered a lot of interest in him by intelligence agencies. There were concerns that he could be a figurehead or instrument of Soviet espionage or destabilisation of American society. A Communist cat's paw? Rather than expose or discredit him for his wild claims, perhaps they protected him to see how many spies/agents they could draw out?
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
I found the idea of the radar-jamming-device-that-makes-fake-ufos a little hard to swallow though. I'm not saying such a device couldn't exist but given the havoc it would wreak with air travel alone, to say nothing of the interference it would cause during military operations I have trouble accepting it would actually be employed, it simply wouldn't be worth the extra headaches.

I imagine that the control over the effect would be such that those would not be concerns unless the operators wanted them to be. Edgar Fouche mentioned a similar device and effect in a 1998 lecture. I can't vouch for Fouche but I think I can get my head around the concept. Theoretically, with the right equipment onboard you could return a radar image of your choosing while simultaneously changing your optical image. It would be an impressive psyop weapon to be sure.
 

CapnG

Devil's Advocate
I imagine that the control over the effect would be such that those would not be concerns unless the operators wanted them to be. Edgar Fouche mentioned a similar device and effect in a 1998 lecture. I can't vouch for Fouche but I think I can get my head around the concept. Theoretically, with the right equipment onboard you could return a radar image of your choosing while simultaneously changing your optical image. It would be an impressive psyop weapon to be sure.

That doesn't really address the underlying point I was making though. If such a device existed in 1952 as Pilkington implied, it would be making regular appearances in the theatre of war by now, probably have been captured or copied by enemies of the USA and would most likely be common knowledge.

It has a very too-good-to-be-true (or perhaps too-convenient-to-believe) ring to it, a technological equivelant to swamp gas in terms of debunking dismissal.
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
That doesn't really address the underlying point I was making though. If such a device existed in 1952 as Pilkington implied, it would be making regular appearances in the theatre of war by now, probably have been captured or copied by enemies of the USA and would most likely be common knowledge.
It has a very too-good-to-be-true (or perhaps too-convenient-to-believe) ring to it, a technological equivelant to swamp gas in terms of debunking dismissal.

True enough. But if such a thing did exist how would you know it was being used? I can't help but think that such devices do exist and probably have for a while. It seems entirely feasible to my misinformed and fantasy prone mind. Electronic counter measure technology is probably a pretty guarded subject I would imagine and such things don't really get discussed by anyone that would know for certain. Or so I imagine.
 

Shaunduhpostman

Paranormal Novice
I never quite caught what part of the ufo phenomena Pilkington thought was legitimate. Seemed like he was holding out on us as far that side of it went. Almost seemed like he was simply paying lip service to being convinced that some portion of the phenomena was real just to be diplomatic, a kind of a soft spoken, more respectful debunker of sorts. Quite dismissive of Roswell without so much as an explanation, "I believe it was a Project Mogul balloon, and other people can believe it was aliens if they like." I would have been interested to hear more about why he thought it was Project Mogul, he certainly seems to know a thing or two. Perhaps I missed something he said...?
 

xLordSummerislex

Skilled Investigator
In the book, he describes a daylight encounter he had with a large, glowing sphere, which he remains baffled by- he does consider it in terms of secret technology etc but can't draw any firm conclusions. He's definitely skeptical but I don't think you could neccesarily class him as a debunker.
 

softbeard

Skilled Investigator
I thought Mark Pilkington was one of the best guests the show has had on. In my opinion, he gave one of the most levell-headed discussions of the topics covered (ufo's, crop circles, etc.) I've heard on the show. I found myself questioning his rationale for a couple of his ideas, but then I guess I should read his book first. But aside from this, excellent show and discussion overall.
 
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