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March 25, 2018 — Michael Allen with J. Randall Murphy

Discussion in 'Talk About the Show' started by Gene Steinberg, Mar 25, 2018.



  1. Gene Steinberg

    Gene Steinberg Forum Super Hero Staff Member

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    There was plenty to talk about a week after Rick Doty's appearance on The Paracast. We welcomed long-time listener and forum regular Michael Allen along with guest cohost J. Randall Murphy to join us.

    This discussion was so fascinating that I invited Michael to join me and Randall for further discussion on After The Paracast. We were joined by author Robert Schroeder.

    After The Paracast is available for subscribers to The Paracast+.

    For more information, please check Introducing The Paracast+ | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio
     
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  2. wwkirk

    wwkirk Paranormal Adept

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    What is Michael's forum name?
     
  3. Gene Steinberg

    Gene Steinberg Forum Super Hero Staff Member

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    Michael Allen.
     
  4. USI Calgary

    USI Calgary J. Randall Murphy Staff Member

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    I like the way Mike's enthusiasm comes across on this episode and hope he'll return for future panel discussions!
     
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  5. Michael Allen

    Michael Allen Administrator Staff Member

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    Absolutely -- definitely was a lot of fun :)
     
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  6. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer Paranormal Adept

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    Good job Michael. Difficult to cross that line from spectator to active participant. As for Doty, The Government and the rest, perhaps this will help:

    upload_2018-3-26_14-7-21.png
     
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  7. USI Calgary

    USI Calgary J. Randall Murphy Staff Member

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    LOL. Love it. Doty had 3 main levers he could pull:
    1. "I saw it in a briefing.
    2. "I read it in open source."
    3. "Somebody who knew told it to me."
    All three of these give him a degree of separation and a sort of plausible deniability. The exceptions are his direct experience with cases like Bennewitz.
     
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  8. Jim_A

    Jim_A Skilled Investigator

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    Remember to watch the documentary 'Mirage Men.' The film generally implies that much of uflogoy is disinformation, but focuses on Richard Doty, and his relationship with Paul Bennewitz.
    If you're interested in Richard 'Rick' Doty, I cannot stress enough that you watch 'Mirage Men.'

    "Let's take things one step at a time. You're looking at Richard Doty. The professional dis-informant. Trained to lie." ~ Robert J. Durant.

     
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  9. Gene Steinberg

    Gene Steinberg Forum Super Hero Staff Member

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    We didn't dwell on this, but Doty more or less disavows "Mirage Men."
     
  10. Jim_A

    Jim_A Skilled Investigator

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    Doesn't Surprise me. By the way, Gene, I hope you and your wife are in a better place. Take care.
     
  11. Gene Steinberg

    Gene Steinberg Forum Super Hero Staff Member

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    Just another motel, trying to put together enough money to stay until we find a new apartment. Thanks for asking.
     
  12. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer Paranormal Adept

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    I hope things work out for you Gene. This morning I was told that hearing loss may present a problem for me in an important situation. Surprising and well, crap. Glad you are being positive and you are pursuing what is important to you. I had inserted some choice invective but thought I'd save the moderator the trouble of editing it out.

    **EDIT** or maybe it would be better to say thanks for the efforts under adverse circumstances**
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
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  13. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer Paranormal Adept

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    OK so now's the s*** hammer.

    After talking about talking with Richard Doty here we are talking about talking about talking with Richard Doty. Strangely, I like it. I can’t imagine what new perspective dissecting another decades old case will bring but I can’t help but have a certain train wreck fascination and again would like to say thanks for bringing him on.


    Having read Project Beta and X-Descending – admittedly some time ago – wasn’t the reason that Bennewitz picked up the phone and opened the Hurt Locker was because he SAW something on the base? All the kerfluffle about intercepting transmissions came later. That seems to have been missed.


    So imagine you are Richard Doty. You are posted there for whatever reason and are sitting around picking your nose, visiting the snack machine once too often and in general doing whatever the hell it is that an AFOSI agent of that era in that location would do unrelated to UFOs. Deceiving the Soviet Union, protecting Truth, Justice and the American Way and so forth. Apparently he wasn’t high enough in the pecking order to avoid this sort of assignment. We have two books to refer to about one side and on the other side of the equation we have Richard Doty’s first person testimony.


    Bear in mind that if he were NEVER connected with AFOSI or any of this and he were someone who saw a UFO – let’s just pick the Phoenix Lights as a random example – there are many who would say that he has served in the Air Force as a counterintelligence expert, a DIA consultant, holds a graduate degree and was a Division Patrol Sergeant in the New Mexico State Police and that all these things ADD to his credibility to support seeing something anomalous.


    So here’s Poor Richard opening yet another Twix and he gets the call to go out and talk to a certain Paul Bennewitz. OK. The man is a contractor with a certain amount of clearance already and claims he has SEEN something SO peculiar he had to make the call. I don’t recall Doty or anyone else talking about any of that.


    I think we are getting off track here theorizing about what the military may have been up to on that base at that time. I didn’t hear anything that sounded new; blinding satellites, secret communications, and even nuclear weapons storage. Do you think Doty had to be privy to every last detail? If he were, would he have been the guy who was called out to deal with Bennewitz?


    Chris, no offense but your experience years later tells me that you were allowed unexciting access to an unexciting place. The fact that you got as far as you did and took pictures of some helicopters proves nothing except that it took place before 9/11. I have made a number of routine maintenance calls to military facilities before and after that date and you are totally right, sometimes the security is lax. And for Gawd’s sake, I was just a Telecom/IT contractor. A tool kit, logoed shirt and the stink of ‘authorized personnel’ can get you into surprising places but when it comes to Important Stuff I can say that either before or after 9/11 when you get to a sensitive spot you are stopped. What secrets did you uncover? None. Being on a ride with one of Bennewitz’s children’s high school classmates isn’t exactly an ironclad credential. What does that exactly prove?


    This is not a defense of Doty as much as it is a suggestion that we focus less on ‘80s vintage security issues and our latent interpretation of them, and more on what this man said, how he said it and what his real motivations might me in 2018. I just can’t see the ‘UFO community’ as so efficacious as a force to be reckoned with. I do see him as someone with enough real first person credential to establish himself as ‘consultant’ or what have you for his retirement projects and maybe reveal some details that we are too distrustful of to be accepted at face value.
     
  14. Michael Allen

    Michael Allen Administrator Staff Member

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    that is a really big IF....
     
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  15. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer Paranormal Adept

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    Agreed. Point is if you divorce the name and take his credentials at face value they could be considered respectable and add gravitas to a different discussion. I'm just saying that sometimes we can pick & choose; in a different light we might consider this guy respectable and take exception to those who might question it. Not a defense of Doty just a suggestion that we test our objectivity. Not a bad idea overall, right?
     
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  16. Michael Allen

    Michael Allen Administrator Staff Member

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    But the big if is a huge mind blockade for me. Sure...i agree based on the very unlikely premises. Unfortunately I have a habit of testing those paths :) To be fair I agree with your main point...that we should always be skeptical about our skepticism :)

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
     
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  17. USI Calgary

    USI Calgary J. Randall Murphy Staff Member

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    Show Notes:

    The Bennewitz - SDI Connection

    • In late 1979 Bennewitz told APRO that he believed he had detected low frequency signals from UFOs and had begun to make calculations about the sort of electronic and propulsion technology employed.
    • On 24 October 1980, Bennewitz contacted Kirtland AFB to make a report of what he felt was a real threat against Manzano Weapons Storage Area by UFOs. He first communicated with Major Ernest E. Edwards, who referred him to S.A. Richard C. Doty from the AFOSI.
    • On November 10, 1980, Bennewitz was invited to Kirtland AFB to present his findings to a small conference of Air Force officers and scientists.
    • In 1980 The Mid-Infrared Advanced Chemical Laser ( MIRACL ) went operational at White Sands. To date, it is the only megawatt-class, continuous wave, chemical laser produced in the US that operates at the deuterium fluoride wavelength.
    • March 23, 1983 - The Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI), also known as Star Wars, was initiated by President Ronald Reagan. A number of SDI concepts were tested through to the late 1980s.
    • Also In 1983, Bill Moore learned about Bennewitz from Doty and became involved for four years until 1987.
    • September 6, 1985: The High Energy Laser Systems Test Facility ( HELSTF ) became operational at White Sands when the Air Force conducted the first test in the Lethality and Target Hardening (LTH-l) program, which was part of the Strategic Defense Initiative Organization ( SDIO ).
    Coincidental Deaths?
    • March 1982: Professor Keith Bowden, 45, computer scientist, Essex University. Bowden's car plunged off a bridge, into am abandoned rail yard. His death was listed as an accident.
    • April 1983: Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Godley, 49, defense expert, head of work-study unit at the Royal Military College of Science. Godley disappeared in April 1983. His father bequeathes him more than $60,000, with the proviso that he claim it be 1987. He never showed up and is presumed dead.
    • November 1985: Jonathan Walsh, 29, digital-communications expert assigned to British Telecom's secret Martlesham Health research facility (and to GEC, Marconi's parent firm). Walsh allegedly fell from his hotel room while working on a British Telecom project in Abidjan, Ivory Coast (Africa). He had expressed a fear for his life. Verdict: Still in question.
    • August 1986: Vimal Dajibhai, 24, computer-software engineer (worked on guidance system for Tigerfish torpedo), Marconi Underwater Systems. In Dajibhai's crumpled remains were found 240 feet below the Clifton suspension bridge in Bristol. The death has not been listed as a suicide.
    • October 1986: Ashaad Sharif, 26, computer analyst, Marconi Defense Systems. In , in Bristol, Sharif allegedly tied one end of a rope around a tree and the other end around his neck, then drove off in his car at high speed. Verdict: Suicide.
    • January 1987: Richard Pugh, computer consultant for the Ministry of Defense. In Pugh was found dead, wrapped head-to-toe in rope that was tied four times around his neck. The coroner listed his death as an accident due to a sexual experiment gone awry.
    • January 1987: John Brittan, Ministry of Defense tank batteries expert, Royal Military College of Science. Britain was found dead in a parked car in his garage. The engine was still running. Verdict: Accidental death.
    • February 1987: Edwin Skeels, 43, engineer, Marconi. Skeels was found dead in his car, a victim of carbon-monoxide poisoning. A hose led from the exhaust pipe. His death is listed as a suicide.
    • February 1987: Victor Moore, 46, design engineer, Marconi Space Systems. In Moore was found dead of a drug overdose. His death is listed as a suicide.
    • February 1987: Peter Peapell, 46, scientist, Royal Military College of Science. In Peapell was found dead beneath his car, his face near the tail pipe, in the garage of his Oxfordshire home. Death was due to carbon-monoxide poisoning, although test showed that the engine had been running only a short time. Foul play has not been ruled out.
    • March 1987: David Sands, satellite projects manager, Eassams (a Marconi sister company). Although up for a promotion, in Sands drove a car filled with gasoline cans into the brick wall of an abandoned cafe. He was killed instantly. Foul play has not been ruled out.
    • April 1987: Stuart Gooding, 23, postgraduate research student, Royal Military College of Science. Gooding died in a mysterious car wreck in Cyprus while the College was holding military exercises on the island. Verdict: Accidental death.
    • April 1987: George Kountis, experienced systems analyst at British Polytechnic. In Kountis drowned after his BMW plunged into the Mersey River in Liverpool. His death is listed as a misadventure.
    • April 1987: Mark Wisner, 24, software engineer at Ministry of Defense experimental station for combat aircraft. In Wisner was found dead in his home with a plastic bag over his head. At the inqust, his death was rules an accident due to a sexual experiment gone awry.
    • June 1987: Frank Jennings, 60, electronic-weapons engineer for Plessey. Jennings allegedly dropped dead of a heart attack. No inquest was held.
    • January 1988: Russel Smith, 23, lab technician at the Atomic Energy Research Establishment. Smith's mangled body was found halfway down a cliff in Cornwall. Verdict: Suicide.
    • March 1988: Trevor Knight, 52, computer engineer, Marconi Space and Defense Systems. Knight was found dead in his car, asphyxiated by fume from a hose attached to the tail pipe. The death was ruled a suicide.
    • May 1987: Michael Baker, 22, digital-communications expert, Plessey Defense Systems. In Baker's BMW crashed through a road barrier, killing the driver. Verdict: Misadventure.
    • August 1988: John Ferry, 60, assistant marketing director for Marconi. Ferry was found dead in a company-owned apartment, the stripped leads of an electrical cord in his mouth. Foul play has not been ruled out.
    • August 1988: Fifty-year-old Alistair Beckham was found electrocuted in his garden toolshed. He was sitting on a box with bare wires around his chest attached to an electrical outlet, and handkerchief in his mouth. No suicide note was found,and police have not ruled out foul play.
    • September 1988: Andrew Hall, 33, engineering manager, British Aero- space. Hall was found dead in his car, asphyxiated by fumes from a hose that was attached to the tail pipe. Friends said he was well liked, had everything to live for. Verdict: Suicide.
    • During this time The British government contends that the deaths are all a matter of coincidence. The British press blames them on stress.
    • In 1988-89 writer Brad Smith spoke to Paul Bennewitz twice in extended conversations and noted that he was "spacey but understandable". It was around this time that the constant stress and lack of sleep caused Bennewitz to be taken to a mental hospital.
    • In 1987, the American Physical Society concluded that the technologies being considered were decades away from being ready for use, SDI budgets were repeatedly cut, and the effort was re-focused on other technology. SDI officially ended in 1993. It should be noted however, that since then, other programs have continued to research and develop DEWs.
    ----------------------------------------
    • So the timing of the Bennewitz affair coincides completely with the precursor to SDI and the entire SDI program some of which was being researched in the vicinity.
    • Related Deaths? During this period numerous scientists and engineers in the MoD, including some working on SDI related projects in the UK, start dying off, and stress is presumed to be a factor.
    • Is it really just coincidence that Bennewitz ( also an engineer ) is also stressed out and that his stress is associated directly with his study of what he thinks has something to with UFOs over a nearby military base, but could very well be tests of SDI equipment?
    • Kirtland is also home to the Starfire Optical Range which is part of the The Air Force Research Laboratory’s Directed Energy Directorate which is also involved with advanced optics and imaging technologies for directed energy weapons ( DEW ) targeting. Kirtland AFB and the Manzano range are separated from White Sands by only about 75km, and the range of MIRACL is much farther than that.
    • The photos Bennewitz had taken of what he thought were craft look a lot more like what one might expect from a target such as a balloon on which a DEW is being tested, or even just the atmosphere itself depending on where the beam is being focused ( see below ).
    [​IMG]

    Also @Christopher O'Brien suggested that the signals Bennewitz was picking up may have been burst transmissions, a type of high data rate telecommunication. I did some brief looking into that, and it's certainly a possibility. However the main objective of such transmissions are to deliver a lot of basic info very fast and then disappear. So extended transmissions wouldn't be expected. But the idea certainly cannot be ruled out either. The frequency of the MIRACL is in the 3.8 µm. range. Perhaps there is some correlation between the frequencies used for pulsed communications transmissions and/or the power requirements and the EM fields generated by MIRACL and the frequencies Bennewitz was picking up. I don't know. At this point I haven't done that much digging into this aspect of the case. But there's some food for thought if anyone is interested in pursuing it further.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
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  18. Michael Allen

    Michael Allen Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks!!

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
     
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  19. USI Calgary

    USI Calgary J. Randall Murphy Staff Member

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    NP. I find some of the coincidences there, well, perhaps a bit too coincidental. Yes it's conspiratorial. But can we write it all off so easily, especially when it seems believable that agents from more than one agency were actively involved in the Bennewitz affair? I also think the strange stress related deaths in the UK make the intrigue larger than just Bennewitz and Doty. Plus those photos really do look a lot more like some sort of ionizing effect from a DEW than a solid craft of any kind. If I had to place a bet, my money would go on this crazy DEW Star Wars theory before I'd put it on aliens. I mean when one thinks about it, that's basically what Doty was telling us. Blinding soviet satellites with lasers is pretty much a Star Wars type of thing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
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  20. Christopher O'Brien

    Christopher O'Brien Back in the Saddle Aginn Staff Member

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    Digital burst, not pulse transmissions, there is a big difference.

    A burst transmission or data burst is the broadcast of a relatively high-bandwidth transmission over a short period. Burst transmissions broadcast a compressed message at a very high data signaling rate within a very short transmission time. This technique is popular with the military and spies, who both wish to minimize the chance of their radio transmissions being detected, a low probability of intercept and low probability of recognition. I seem to recall that this type of signal was developed in the late '70s and became widely used in the early '80s by the military. Anyone know more about the development curve?
     
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