Liars and Frauds

[Gwops]

Even If I am a minority of one, truth is still the truth.

Even If I am a minority of one, truth is still the truth.

 

[CapnG]

NOW, dear skeptics, debunkers, little brains and nay-sayers,
since EVERYTHING is just a lie and a fake, give us an explanation how it is possible that all these people are liars and frauds.

They're insane. Game, set, match.

 

[Rick Deckard]

I wonder if ET is sat at home wondering if Ts (Terrestrials) actually exist...


...that was lame, but lame is all I got at the moment...

 

[DBTrek]

NOW, dear skeptics, debunkers, little brains and nay-sayers, since EVERYTHING is just a lie and a fake, give us an explanation how it is possible that all these people are liars and frauds.

The same way it's possible that billions and billions of people swear their personal flavor or religion is the one singular truth.

Just like the UFO crowd, they have no proof but that does not deter them from relaying unbelievable story after unbelievable story.

Duh.

How is it you see people behaving in the way you describe (liars, frauds, and misguided believers) every day of your life and are yet unable to understand how it could be possible?

-DBTrek

 

[idontunderstand]

Hi Gwops my friend!

I think as with most things in life its hard for people to relate to another human beings experience, without having the same experience themselves.

Its like if I have a new fizzy drink and I say to you "This is really a fantastic drink man, the flavours seem to blend into one taste, yet stay separate, all these fruity flavours etc"

Whatever the description I give you its only going to be a shadow of what the actual "experience" is.

I could use the most descriptive metaphors, analogy's, allegory etc. But still it will not give you the "knowledge" of the actual experience.

So in that sense your truth (experience) can not be "known" in any really meaningful sense of the word to other people unless they have witnessed the same or correlated events for themselves.

I think this is the problem faced by much of the para-normal world. In a science world view of objectivity, how can an experience which was so life changing, personal and huge in someones life be accounted for by a system of weights and measures so to speak, given the nature of the phenomenon.

In my view ghosts do exist. I have no reason to doubt that different people, in the same locations seeing the same entity are liars. The most impressive example of this was the documentary on the london underground. The link to the video ill place at the end of this post.

Cheers Gwoppy! speak to you soon on Yahoo! )

http://www.londonist.com/archives/2007/01/ghosts_of_the_u.php

 

[Ankhes]

The same way it's possible that billions and billions of people swear their personal flavor or religion is the one singular truth.

Just like the UFO crowd, they have no proof but that does not deter them from relaying unbelievable story after unbelievable story.

Duh.

How is it you see people behaving in the way you describe (liars, frauds, and misguided believers) every day of your life and are yet unable to understand how it could be possible?

-DBTrek

Took the words right out of my mouth. Religion comes to my mind at once. So, yes, many many many people can be deluded and/or mistaken and not necessarily be liars. It's not difficult for me to understand that at all!

 

[DBTrek]

Perception is like taste. Different from individual to individual.

Ok . . . we agree, but many aspects of reality are testable independent of personal perception. If we can't agree on the color of an object we can test the wavelength of the light it reflects and settle the matter.

Religion is something you cannot discuss. You need to be daredevil or insane to discuss religion. Religious people (maybe not all) - but definitely too many in my point of view take things at face value. So the real truth is never discussed or meant to be revealed. Religion is faith. Blind faith. Not knowing but believing. This is definitely not my cup of tea !!

Not necessarily so. Take Christians for example, some of them think they have considerable "evidence" supporting their beliefs; the Shroud of Turin, Noahs Ark's wreckage on Mount Arat, geological evidence of a great flood, several holy artifacts from the crusades, Jesus's Tomb . . . etc. Sure, science has done much to disprove this so-called evidence, but it has done quite a bit to disprove UFO "evidence" as well. Both camps (the religious and the UFOologists) have members that refuse to believe the science and continue to follow their beliefs regardless.

In my opinion, there is a problem that skeptics feel like EVERYTHING must be served on a silver plate. This typical black and white thinking makes me sick. Something may sound far fetched (in your words unbelievable), but how often does science change its mind ? How often do you read in newspapers (not science but an example nonetheless) that eating this or that is healthy due to nutritionists.

1. Some skeptics wish "not" to believe as much as some UFO fanatics want to believe, it's true. Some won't believe until they're sitting in the seat of a fully functioning alien craft. I tend to think the vast majority of skeptics are just waiting for something that can stand up to reasonable scientific scrutiny. Unfortunately UFOologists don't have anything that meets this criteria.

2. Science "changes it's mind" when the evidence dictates that current theories are incorrect. That's the beautiful thing about science, it doesn't have all the answers but it's able to change to accommodate greater understanding.

If one is told a story in the paper by a famous or well known researcher, does the ordinary person who reads the article go ballistic and demands double or triple proof ? Normally, not ! Being told a story from an authority gives you assurance - I'd say it's often false assurance.

Scientists making scientific claims are often in peer-reviewed journals. Their claims are scrutinized by hundreds if not thousands of experts in their field that are just waiting to tear their thories apart. If you think UFO skeptics on a message forum are rough you should try writing a scientific article in a peer-reviewed journal.

I believe the problem lies with the body of authority. NASA would have told us.

I disagree. I think most skeptics are waiting to see the evidence, not hear some decree from NASA.

An individual person may have no power but if he or she sights a UFO, it might be hard to believe or sound unbelievable, but what lies really in the realm of possibilities ????

"Everything" lies in the realm of possibility. That's why we must try to focus on the realm of probability.

-DBTrek

 

[CapnG]

Wow.... para-spam... who knew?

 

[Ankhes]

Not necessarily so. Take Christians for example, some of them think they have considerable "evidence" supporting their beliefs; the Shroud of Turin, Noahs Ark's wreckage on Mount Arat, geological evidence of a great flood, several holy artifacts from the crusades, Jesus's Tomb . . . etc.
-DBTrek

I think you're right about this. What is weird to me is that, say, even if the famous shroud is "real" and other artifacts are "real," that only proves that they are genuine. They do not prove that Jesus was a god or that those other artifacts represent something metaphysical or divine.