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Kimball & Ecker tonight!

Merchandise that’s just out of this world!

P

Paul Kimball

Guest


Just a note to let folks know that I'll will be appearing on the Zorgy-nominated Dark Matters Radio with Don Ecker tonight, Wednesday morning, 2 am to 4 am AST (1 am to 3 am EST).

Don and I will be having a no-holds barred discussion about UFOs, ghosts, vampires (Don has written a vampire novel, Past Sins), wackos in ufology (and we've both had to deal with more than a few over the years)... you name it, we'll talk about it. We'll also be taking calls!

When discussing wackos, I'll be referring to the UFO Looney Tune classification system that I developed in 2008. You can read the original post in its entirety here, but here is the classification system itself.

The system is as follows:
Porky Pig - a UFO looney tune who is more or less connected to reality; they are functional, can operate in the real world, and occasionally might even contribute something useful to the overall discourse on the UFO phenomenon. In terms of ideas or conclusions, Porky Pig status indicates something that just might have at least a veneer or plausibility, if not quite probability. However, they are naive and far too trusting.

Bugs Bunny - A UFO looney tune who is connected to reality, but says ridiculous things. However, they do so knowing that what they say is ridiculous, just to have some fun with people. This applies to the ideas they put forward as well. This form of looney tune is generally harmless, and even serves a useful purpose.

Yosemite Sam - A UFO looney tune who may or may not be connected to reality, but who says and does ridiculous things regardless in order to make money. Fully capable of making stuff up if it furthers their end goal of profit. If this class of looney tune is doing it solely to make money, then they are a Yosemite Sam looney tune (sub-class I); if they are doing it to make money but they also seem to genuinely believe what they are saying (but money remains the primary motive), then they are a Yosemite Sam looney tune (sub-class II).

Daffy Duck - A UFO looney tune that is completely off the deep end. They have little or no connection to reality, and will do or say anything to buttress their single-minded belief system. They are extremely unpredictable, argumentative, and occasionally capable of stalker-like behaviour, but are not dangerous.

Tasmanian Devil - A UFO looney tune that is completely off the deep end, and dangerous. They have the capacity to harm themselves, and possibly others.
You can listen at CyberstationUSA. Feel free to call in!

Paul Kimball
 

Hoffmeister

There is no spoon
oh yeah!!!!!
I cant wait for this one, my two favourite characters in the UFo field on one show.
Now i'm always getting ready for work in the morning whilst listening to the show (it airs 6am-8am in the UK) so I usually email in my questions but i'm gonna try and make time to call in tommorow. Can we have some more gags like the one about Keyhoe being full of hot air please lol
 
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Paul Kimball

Guest
I'll try to sound coherent. I've been up since 6 am working, and I'm recording a second episode of The Paracast with Gene from 8 'til 10 pm tonight, with filmmaker Mike MacDonald as the guest (he of Northern Lights, Intruders: Abductees Speak Out and The Shag Harbour UFO Incident fame)... after which I'll take a quick nap, and then load up on caffeine via Diet Coke. Expect a stream of consciousness joyride, not dissimilar to the legendary episode of Radio Misterioso where Greg Bishop and I spent two hours announcing the Celebrity UFO Death Match championships!
 

Hoffmeister

There is no spoon
Yeah I tried to find some of your shows from Radio Misterioso but they arent up there any more for some reason. I think MJ-12 might have taken them down..
 
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Paul Kimball

Guest
Yeah I tried to find some of your shows from Radio Misterioso but they arent up there any more for some reason. I think MJ-12 might have taken them down..
I've begged Greg to post the UFO Celebrity Death Match show, which I still think was improv comedic genius of the highest order, but I think he's worried that because we made fun of so many people, including Don, that we would get sued / roasted alive / tarred and feathered. ;)

Here are the results, however (original at: http://redstarfilms.blogspot.com/2008/05/ufo-celebrity-death-match-results.html):

Match #1
Wild Bill Cooper vs. Marshall Applewhite: Cooper won this match, and the vacant World UFO Title belt, after Applewhite committed suicide just as the bout was about to start. Unfortunately, Cooper then opened fire on security personnel, and after a prolonged gun battle was killed. The Title belt was declared vacant again, and a series of elimination bouts ensued.

Elimination Bout #1
Nick Redfern vs. Mac Tonnies - Redfern won after he dragged Tonnies to a mosh pit and kicked his ass, punk rock style.

Elimination Bout #2
Art Bell vs. George Noory - Bell took this bout by default, as Noory couldn’t make it through the throng of angry Bell fans who had surrounded the arena.

Elimiation Bout #3
Bill Birnes vs. Stuart Miller - Birnes took this match of UFO-related magazine publishers. Despite the fact that Stuart was persistent, and kept getting up after being knocked down, Birnes just played dirtier and dirtier, until he finally managed to use a set of brass knuckles masquerading as reverse-engineered alien technology to knock Miller out.

Elimination Bout #4
Kevin Randle vs. Don Ecker - Randle took this prolonged battle of military vets, using some new weapons hidden at ringside that he had acquired while serving in Iraq.

Elimination Bout #5
Kal K. Korff vs. Michael Horn - This was a classic between two people who have no grasp on reality: Horn, the most ardent defender of the Billy Meier hoax, and Korff, the most ardent opponent (i.e. the only person who still cares). Korff ultimately used his size advantage (physical and ego) and some outside interference from his Israeli super-spy buddies to get the duke over Horn… who then proceeded to claim that his defeat was proof that the Meier case was real.

Elimination Bout #6
Tim Binnall vs. Jeremy Vaeni - Binnall took this return bout between podcast hots (Binnall torched Vaeni in the 2007 Zorgy Award voting) after an amusing battle that saw Binnall enlist the aid of some transvestites. After the battle, Vaeni retired to the nearest hot tub.

Elimination Bout #7
Stanton T. Friedman vs. Seth Shostak - The cagey veteran Friedman pinned Shostak, who came to the ring dressed as a Sleestak from Land of the Lost, after he polled the pro-Friedman crowd and obtained a 70% approval rating versus 30% for Shostak.

Elimination Bout #8
Steven Greer vs. Reality - This was perhaps the most exciting match of the night. Reality had a big advantage going in, but Greer slowly but surely undermined Reality at every turn, until Reality started to lose confidence in itself. It was at that point that Greer pulled out an alien baby, which used some strange foreign substance to stun Reality, which Greer followed with his patented “Disclosure Bomb” for the pin.

After this match, Greer easily defeated the other elimination bout winners in a battle royal, with Nick Redfern being the final contender to be eliminated over the top rope, to be declared the winner…

But then, just as he was about to accept the Title belt, Cooper and Applewhite returned as Zombies in an unholy alliance to challenge Greer to a handicapped match. Greer, perhaps cocky after his defeat of Reality, accepted, and the Zombies entered the ring. Greer immediately took both Zombies in his hands and lifted them over his head, in preparation for the delivery of The Disclosure Bomb. At this point, the Zombies Cooper and Applewhite revealed their devious plan - they had allowed Greer to lift them over his head, which positioned them perfectly to chomp into his BRAINS! As Greer spun them around, they struck… only to find that Greer had no BRAINS!!!

The stunned Zombies were then disposed of by the patented Disclosure Bomb, and Greer was declared undisputed Celebrity UFO Death Match world champion.
 

Hoffmeister

There is no spoon
Er... so sorry for waffling a bit when I got on the phone this morning. Shortly after getting getting on air i realised that its perhaps best not to call in on radio stations whilst you are in your car trying to battle through the mornings traffic. I'll have to relisten to the show when its posted to see if I made any sense.

Seriously though, on the whole belgian triangle incident (and by incident I mean the F-16 chase), I really do have it as my number one best case for the following reasons:

The case has the following key points to it:
1. Visual identification by multiple police officers and thousands of civilian and military personnel
2. Caught on film and camera
3. Two F-16's chasing it for a couple of hours, with it performing moves waaaaay ahead of current technology
4. Chief of the Belgian air force saying that one of the only possibilities left is extra-terrestrial (not evidence per se but shows they have really looked at the data and found something highly anomalous)
5. Pilot of the F16 saying he believes it is extra-terrestrial (as above but was involved in a 1-2 hour long chase so was in a position to say it wasn't a frozen cloud giving off dodgy readings)
6. A Top radar analyst of the time saying that it couldn't of been radar error as there were four ground radars and two air radars all of different model and orientation (hence saying he believes it is extra-terrestrial)

Documentaries which should give you a quick overview of the case:

Doc 1: You'll need to download the veoh web player and fast forward to 10:20 for the 10 minute or so section on the Belgian UFO case.
UFOs Uncovered | Free Educational Videos - Watch Educational Videos Online | Veoh

Doc 2: Fast forward to 51 minutes
Unsolved Mysteries 1- UFOs Roswell_1stVDO

Now of course we don't know whether the anomalous activity was due to an ET craft, something non-paranormal, or something totally different but I will just outline some potential explanations to the key points listed earlier


1. They could have misidentified normal things for and mistaken them for this craft - However, with the police descriptions in the video's, the mind boggles at what would have fooled all of them in such a way. Remember those
documentaries were filmed only a few years afterwards.
2. The photo's could be faked and the video could be a prototype blimp - The main photo's have been analyzed i believe but i'll need to check the data further as to how much. That video is
not good enough quality as to be damning evidence either way but certainly seems to show what everyone has been describing
3. I know neither you or I are experts on radar, and I know radar can be fallible but the later points would seem to rule out radar mistakes
4. Not much to say here as they are his opinions
5. as above
6. I cannot come up with any rational explanation other than something 'paranormal' that would explain this.

Just my 2 cents :)
 
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Paul Kimball

Guest
Er... so sorry for waffling a bit when I got on the phone this morning. Shortly after getting getting on air i realised that its perhaps best not to call in on radio stations whilst you are in your car trying to battle through the mornings traffic. I'll have to relisten to the show when its posted to see if I made any sense.
Thanks for calling in - good to chat, and you made perfect sense to me... although I had been up for 24 hours straight by that point, so "making sense" was relative. ;)

Seriously though, on the whole belgian triangle incident (and by incident I mean the F-16 chase), I really do have it as my number one best case for the following reasons:

The case has the following key points to it:
1. Visual identification by multiple police officers and thousands of civilian and military personnel
2. Caught on film and camera
3. Two F-16's chasing it for a couple of hours, with it performing moves waaaaay ahead of current technology
4. Chief of the Belgian air force saying that one of the only possibilities left is extra-terrestrial (not evidence per se but shows they have really looked at the data and found something highly anomalous)
5. Pilot of the F16 saying he believes it is extra-terrestrial (as above but was involved in a 1-2 hour long chase so was in a position to say it wasn't a frozen cloud giving off dodgy readings)
6. A Top radar analyst of the time saying that it couldn't of been radar error as there were four ground radars and two air radars all of different model and orientation (hence saying he believes it is extra-terrestrial)
I like the case too, although not as much as you perhaps. Still, with reference to your points:

1. Useful, no question, but not definitive.

2. Again, not definitive, at least from what I've seen.

3. Way ahead of what we know about - that doesn't mean that there wasn't (at that time) technology that the Belgian pilots would not have been familiar with that would seem to them to be way ahead of what we had. For example, the U2 was more than once reported as a UFO by USAF fighter pilots who didn't even know it existed. I know, because I've talked to them. Just sayin' - as Karl Pflock once said to me, take what we know, and add ten years more onto it, and that's usually where military technology development actually is. I always thought that sounded about right.

4. Again, interesting, but not definitive. No offence to the Belgians, who are valued members of NATO to be sure, but I'm certain the US does not make them privy to all of their advanced technology.

5. Again, see reply to #4, and to an extent #3.

6. Again, see reply to #4 and #3.

That may make me sound like a debunker, but I need to stress that I do like the case, and would rank it highly... certainly in a list of the 20 best cases, if I were to create one myself, and it may even crack my personal top 10. I just don't think that we can state with certainty that it was paranormal in nature given the evidence - and I think the RB47 case is a stronger case overall, all things considered (particularly the timing).

See:


Incidentally, I've seen an extended interview that was conducted with Major General Wilfried De Brouwer but which has never been released publicly, and I take what he has to say very seriously. He seems like a serious, credible individual who remains genuinely baffled by the case.


DeBrouwer appears in the last three and a half minutes of the clip.

Paul
 

Hoffmeister

There is no spoon
I suppose it depends on what you are saying each individual case is 'best evidence' for. Now i'm not exactly saying that the Belgian UFO was definitely 'Alien', in fact I keep changing my mind about that. Incidentally, both me, and one of my housemates have seen very similar things to the Belgian triangle on separate occasions (hence my interest in this case) within as few years of each other and both instances in the South West of England and both for prolonged periods of time (15 minutes or so).
My housemate simply will not listen to the idea that what he saw was 'Alien' and will calmly tell you that its probably just some technology that we don't yet know about and the only thing out of the ordinary that it did was move very slowly across the sky. When I saw my one I was about 16 and had no exposure to Ufology which at the time led me to come to the same conclusions as him. The triangle I saw again did nothing particularly amazing except float around a bit and then move off slowly (although there didnt seem to be any acceleration).

So really its a mystery to me, if it hadnt been for the Jets chasing the one in Belgium and it doing all kinds of crazy manouvers, then I would 100% be saying that its probably just some sort of stealth troop delivery platform or something. But since the jets never made visual on it, maybe I am putting 2 and 2 together, and making MJ-12
 

drudiak

Skilled Investigator
I spoke briefly with Gen. De Brouwer at the MUFON conference a year and half ago. Although publicly the official Belgian AF position was that the extraterrestrial hypothesis should be given serious consideration and not ruled out, I asked him what the unofficial position was, or what he believed.

He put it this way. The popular conception is that these craft were seen only at night, but that wasn't the case, and gave me two examples. In one, a large triangle hovered silently and directly above several witnesses at low altitude, then tilted up on its nose and started doing a silent rotation on its vertical axis. Another example was related by a personal friend of his, another AF officer, who went outside in the morning to go to work and saw another triangle "as large as a jumbo jet" hovering silently over his car. He never filed a report on this, however, fearing for his career, but related the sighting in confidence to De Brouwer.

Then De Brouwer said words to the effect that no nation on Earth has any sort of aircraft that can do these things. And remember, this was 20 years ago. If it was some sort of secret test craft of the U.S., you would think we would have fleets of them by now instead of using old jet engine technology with all its limitations.

I also asked De Brouwer whether surrounding nations were affected, and he said no, the wave seemed to have confined to Belgium (another strike against the secret aircraft theory). Then I asked him if he had any idea why that might be, and he said there were two theories. One was that Belgium was the brightest country on the planet as seen from space. The other was that Belgium was the headquarters of NATO, and maybe a message was being sent.
 

dyingsun

Paranormal Adept
I spoke briefly with Gen. De Brouwer at the MUFON conference a year and half ago. Although publicly the official Belgian AF position was that the extraterrestrial hypothesis should be given serious consideration and not ruled out, I asked him what the unofficial position was, or what he believed.

He put it this way. The popular conception is that these craft were seen only at night, but that wasn't the case, and gave me two examples. In one, a large triangle hovered silently and directly above several witnesses at low altitude, then tilted up on its nose and started doing a silent rotation on its vertical axis. Another example was related by a personal friend of his, another AF officer, who went outside in the morning to go to work and saw another triangle "as large as a jumbo jet" hovering silently over his car. He never filed a report on this, however, fearing for his career, but related the sighting in confidence to De Brouwer.

Then De Brouwer said words to the effect that no nation on Earth has any sort of aircraft that can do these things. And remember, this was 20 years ago. If it was some sort of secret test craft of the U.S., you would think we would have fleets of them by now instead of using old jet engine technology with all its limitations.

I also asked De Brouwer whether surrounding nations were affected, and he said no, the wave seemed to have confined to Belgium (another strike against the secret aircraft theory). Then I asked him if he had any idea why that might be, and he said there were two theories. One was that Belgium was the brightest country on the planet as seen from space. The other was that Belgium was the headquarters of NATO, and maybe a message was being sent.
Now that is interesting, thank you for sharing.
 

Simonemendez

Skilled Investigator
Hey Paul, I was pondering your meanspirited list of derogatory names for people who get into this Ufo subject. I got one more. Jack**s-Of-All-Trades. This is an insecure guy who can't decide if he's a movie producer, or Hugh Heffner, or a Ufologist, or an entertainment Agent, a groupie-Groupie, or........WHAT? I picture 'SouthPark' making a cartoon of this character, jumping up and down on an Oprah couch, going, "I da man! I da man! I da man!" (boing boing boing)
 

Dana

Skilled Investigator
Hey Paul, i might be a little late to the party but let me say this was quite a good interview. You were running on something like 28 hours without sleep but you sounded great. The exchange with you and Greg Bishop was great as well as the MJ-12 issue. I hope your a regular to Dons show because there were so many topics you guys never even got to, so thanks again.
 
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Paul Kimball

Guest
Hey Paul, i might be a little late to the party but let me say this was quite a good interview. You were running on something like 28 hours without sleep but you sounded great. The exchange with you and Greg Bishop was great as well as the MJ-12 issue. I hope your a regular to Dons show because there were so many topics you guys never even got to, so thanks again.
Thanks Dana. Glad you enjoyed it. If you like hearing Greg and I banter, you should check out the Radio Misterioso episode we did a couple of years ago with our friend Mac Tonnies. Fun stuff. You can find it at: http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/18406
 

Hoffmeister

There is no spoon
Cool thanks for the link. Let us know if there are any more of your talks around as I can never find your ones on the Radio Misterioso site. I have to do a lot of driving to get to lients for my job and i'm currently really short of podcasts to listen to in the car.
Just listened to the Rich Saradet one today and I love the way that the RM show's thrown together. Walter Bosley arriving halfway through the show with a pizza was hilarious
 

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