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Just the Horn Interviews


Theorist

Paranormal Novice
Pictures, video and sound recordings aside, I'd like to hear what you guys thought of the interviews themselves. Not sure if i'm allowed to do this but i want this thread to be just about the interviews themselves and Horn's words in the interviews with Gene and Dave. We've looked at the pics and the video, now let's analyze Horn's words.

Horn said some very questionable things in the interviews. His words raise suspicion all on their own; some didn't even make sense.

Example:
The fact that Meier refused to take the arm that the aliens offered but then got a free hand surgery later just doesn't make any sense to me in that they try so hard to prove their story. And the way he told it and the details within the story make little sense. If you really listen to the interviews and the small details, it seems a little odd in many many ways. The list goes on and on.

Just wondering what you guys found odd in horn's words in the two interviews. What struck you as being odd?
 
While I'd have to go back and listen to both interviews again, I have to say that the whole arm situation did make sense to me. I think the point that Horn was making was that if someone lost an arm and then the next day showed up with a completely new, human arm given to him by aliens, it might raise some questions as to where the arm came from since we don't yet have the technology to replace actual limbs.

On the other hand, if someone injured a bone in his hand or pulled a ligament and aliens repaired it, it wouldn't be that noticeable. To me, at least, this part of the story isn't much of a contradiction.
 
The interviews were one of if not the only ones I have ever heard, that asked the tough questions that are often put to Horn on message boards across the internet. I personally found it interesting to hear his stammering, and double talk come right from his mouth.

Youre talking about a man who's alledgedly one of the foremost experts on the "case", enough to be the "authorized media representative" for Meier in the US. Yet, it becomes painfully obvious he knows nothing of the case, past what he's told. It's a "Horn of Plenty" when it comes to regurgitating "facts", about Meier's info.

But, past that, he cannot explain even so much as how a photo is made.

He will on the other hand, as David has said, use projection as a weapon. He will also use any argument you have with him, to selectively edit and then use that to his advantage. Look at what is said about my wedding cake model on his site.

Do you think he would post the other set of *finished* photos I did and not the preliminary model of a future shoot? Not a chance.

The amusing thing you find out is how he even selectively edits the "expert" comments about the case. I caught him in that on another message board.

All of these issues were brought to light in the interviews.

One other thing I found truly interesting was the "triple exposure" "friend" who Michael wouldnt name, and of course probably doesnt exist. But again, it shows what length these people will go to, no matter how far reaching the excuse, to "support" their case.

The arm/hand issue, is completely understandable, since there are no aliens involved. If the claim is made that his hand was so badly injured that medical doctors wouldnt work on it, then where is the doctor's release forms and documentation to support this? Any hospital is going to have some sort of form on such an event, if nothing then to protect itself from legal issues. So where is it?

This is much like Horn's reporting the Swiss Air Monitoring station reporting UFOs over Meier's property. There is NO documentation, nor would a Swiss govt. or military, ever release such info to Horn, or anyone else. When I pressed for the documentation, letter, report file or anything else to support this particular claim, none ever surfaced, nor has it to this day. He suddenly dropped such an argument from our conversation, and never revisted it, even as I pressed for any documentation to support the claim. I recall the reply being "Take it for what it's worth"

Point of the story, it's just not true. But again, he says it on the Paracast, and I for one was amazed he used it again.

I agree with David, in that I dont believe that Horn actually believes any of it either. For him, it's a livelyhood.
 
As for the arm.... His excuse is because he doesn't want to prove he is having contact. Why he takes pictures and film I don't know. ::) The hand surgery isn't as noticable. The arm excuse is a cop out. More made up crap to try and fill in holes that are in his story.

I thought Dave and Gene held back a little too much and let him ramble on and on. The last show atleast. But, had they not, then that would have been used against them. The photo shop explaination went way over my head. I understood more the second listen though. I enjoyed all the shows. Even listened to them more than once. I never got to see the pic David analyzed though. I need a firefox browser or a Mac.

I don't have the impression Horn is in this for money. He seems sincere to me. Which is almost as bad.
 
Mindsky said:
As for the arm.... His excuse is because he doesn't want to prove he is having contact. Why he takes pictures and film I don't know. ::) The hand surgery isn't as noticable. The arm excuse is a cop out. More made up crap to try and fill in holes that are in his story.

I thought Dave and Gene held back a little too much and let him ramble on and on. The last show atleast. But, had they not, then that would have been used against them. The photo shop explaination went way over my head. I understood more the second listen though. I enjoyed all the shows. Even listened to them more than once. I never got to see the pic David analyzed though. I need a firefox browser or a Mac.

I don't have the impression Horn is in this for money. He seems sincere to me. Which is almost as bad.


i don't think dave and gene held back too much in that if they were to press harder it might seem like an attack rather than an interview. i thought they did a very professional job with just enough pressure to make horn squirm. however, i do understand what you are saying. had i done the interview, it probably would have been a full blown attack for sure.

i'm not sure if horn is in it for the money or not? if not the money...what? what could possibly motivate this guy to defend meier so ardently? i've said it in another thread but this cult existence concerns me-brainwashing perhaps and maybe horn does really believe it. doubt it though; horn seems to be too smart for that?

the small details horn gives in the interviews when he's building a story are limited. like when he was talking about how meier fell and hurt his hand; horn briefly mentioned something in the house was moved and meier fell. ok, and what was moved and how could he fall so hard as to break his hand so severely. was there no light at all? he just moves on to the meat of the story with very little to say about it. maybe i'm reading into this a little too much but those are things i look for. you can pick up a lot by looking at the little things and horn doesn't give much until he gets to the meat of the story.

and yes, where's the documentation from the doctor? meier had a hand that was damaged so severely that doctors just sent him home...come on! what doctor would just send you home without doing something? my buddy was in a motorcycle accident that turned the bottom of his right leg into ground beef and they fixed it. meier falls and hurts his hand and it's too severe to repair? sorry horn i don't buy it and it's silly for you to expect me to.

something else that really burns me about this guy is that he deems all other ufo cases frauds but at the same time expects us to take him at his word. calling the kettle black i'd say. that just really burns me. there's other cases out there (hill and walton) that have much more credibility but horn implies they are frauds. what arrogance!

i'm glad to see horn finally getting the interview he deserves. it's about time someone calls this guy out on some of this stuff. i enjoyed every second of it.
 
The best part of the interview was this...

Partial transcript- The Paracast Jul 11, 2006. From 00:24:00 to 00:25:30

GS: Excuse me, one second Michael. He's not saying it doesn't exist, he's saying...he's questioning the evidence of when this document was made, but that's still moving us away from the discussion. Which is that he's looking at hard evidence at your website, and we're going to look at photographs, ok?
Now, we're getting back to the same thing again...if he's going to be able to demonstrate, which he says he can, that some of those photographs, or at least the ones he's analyzed are questionable, that has to cast doubt on a lot of the story-and that's something I asked you about before. Which is, If you see that one or two or three key elements of this story which is hard evidence, are shown to be false, then that has to cast doubt on the rest of it and you can...we can talk about the rest of it-let's talk about the stuff right now that appears to be questionable and we...<cut off>go ahead...

MH: Let me ask you one question about the photographs. Conversely then, am I to understand that if we have photographs that are authenticated, that are shown to be real-and films that are shown to be real, and video that's shown to be real, and sound recordings that are shown to be real, and that an IBM scientist who analyzed metal samples was analyzing real metal samples and made a legitimate scientific conclusion of authenticity-how will we now evaluate the evidence in the case if we find that there's real evidence and, let's just say that you can find something "fake" how do you now...does it cast a doubt or does it say well because we have real evidence, we have to rule out fakery?

DB: What sort of logic is this?
 
Theorist said:
i don't think dave and gene held back too much in that if they were to press harder it might seem like an attack rather than an interview. i thought they did a very professional job with just enough pressure to make horn squirm. however, i do understand what you are saying. had i done the interview, it probably would have been a full blown attack for sure.

i'm not sure if horn is in it for the money or not? if not the money...what?


I mentioned that if they didn't hold back as much it could be used against them.


It's the same drive that leads to Jahova witnesses running around trying to convert people. The same drive that makes me post my thoughts. He thinks that Billy's experiences are genuine, and wants to tell the world perhaps. I've done interviews before, without anything to sell.
 
Interestingly enough, recently Horn published this on the "Plejarens are Real" yahoogroups message board in relation to David and Gene:

"As many of you may now know, the two guys from Paracast went absolutely
apoplectic over unusual photos taken by Meier of what he said were
energy (non-dense material) UFOs. They declared that Meier had
deliberately hoaxed (one particular) photo among about a half-dozen of
the strange objects, and accused him, his friends, family and me of
being liars, fabricators, unscrupulous, etc.

Of course, when these champions of truth and integrity were asked to
duplicate the photo that they had so confidently determined to be an
out-of-camera superimposed photo of a "light fixture", they ran like
heck and hided under more rhetoric...as all of the debunkers and
attackers of the case inevitably do when challenged to put their money
where their mouths are.

Now, while reviewing Wendelle Steven's 542-page book, "A Preliminary
Investigation Report", copyrights 1978-1982, I came across some
information that, coincidentally, vindicates Meier once again. On pages
518 and 519, Stevens recounts details about several sightings of this
object, which changed size, color and shape many times, and then, on
page 521, Stevens states the following, "The whole story seems
extremely bizarre and would be difficult for us to believe except that
my co-investigators, Lee Elders and his wife Brit, were staying on the
property at Hinterschmidruti in the course of an investigation
follow-up during 1979, and personally witnessed a similar light show by
the same kind of object. Brit was awakened about two o'clock in the
morning by an extremely bright light outside the trailer they were
sleeping in. She awakened Lee and together they watched a light display
and pattern of events very much like the one described by Billy."

I find this SO incredibly laughable, considering Lee and Brit Elders are the producers of the documentaries and some books on the Meier case. Their company Intercept, and later Genesis III stood to gain quite alot of money from the case being a reality through the sale of videos and other publications.

In my opinion, these are NOT credible "witnesses", but ones who stood to gain by the case being portrayed as "real". Of course they'll back it up by saying they saw something.

Horn will grab onto ANY possible person, even those who made the case a business venture. If this is the best he's got, he'd be wise to quit while he's behind.
 
Here's something David might be interested in seeing...a few minutes of google searching and voila!

Something that came up several times in the two MH interviews was the analysis of the audio (Moog) cassettes by the "Naval Undersea Sound Center in Groton, Connecticut". ref: http://theyfly.com/PDF/UFOSoundRecordings.pdf

This is of course an organization that does not exist. NUSC actually stands for something else...

The Naval Underwater Systems Center was formed in 1970 by the merger of two independent laboratories of the Naval Material Command: the Naval Underwater Weapons Research and Engineering Station (NUWS), Newport, Rhode Island, and the Naval Underwater Sound Laboratory (NUSL), New London, Connecticut. These two complexes are now the principal laboratories of NUSC.
ref: From: http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/bibs/submarine/subbookstop.htm

The NUSL was created on 1 July 1945, when the sonar development program of the Harvard Underwater Sound Laboratory (HUSL) was transferred to the United States Navy Underwater Sound Laboratory at New London, Connecticut (USNUSL).
ref: http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/ser...000610000S1000S72000004&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes

A google search for the "Naval Underwater Systems Center " now sends you to The Naval Undersea Warfare Center (NUWC) in Rhode Island. http://www.nuwc.navy.mil/

This all comes full circle and proves that MH was actually telling the truth! There was no record of the Meier sounds in the archives of the Naval Undersea Sound Center!!!
 
jritzmann said:
Interestingly enough, recently Horn published this on the "Plejarens are Real" yahoogroups message board in relation to David and Gene:

"As many of you may now know, the two guys from Paracast went absolutely
apoplectic over unusual photos taken by Meier of what he said were
energy (non-dense material) UFOs. They declared that Meier had
deliberately hoaxed (one particular) photo among about a half-dozen of
the strange objects, and accused him, his friends, family and me of
being liars, fabricators, unscrupulous, etc.

Of course, when these champions of truth and integrity were asked to
duplicate the photo that they had so confidently determined to be an
out-of-camera superimposed photo of a "light fixture", they ran like
heck and hided under more rhetoric...as all of the debunkers and
attackers of the case inevitably do when challenged to put their money
where their mouths are.

Now, while reviewing Wendelle Steven's 542-page book, "A Preliminary
Investigation Report", copyrights 1978-1982, I came across some
information that, coincidentally, vindicates Meier once again. On pages
518 and 519, Stevens recounts details about several sightings of this
object, which changed size, color and shape many times, and then, on
page 521, Stevens states the following, "The whole story seems
extremely bizarre and would be difficult for us to believe except that
my co-investigators, Lee Elders and his wife Brit, were staying on the
property at Hinterschmidruti in the course of an investigation
follow-up during 1979, and personally witnessed a similar light show by
the same kind of object. Brit was awakened about two o'clock in the
morning by an extremely bright light outside the trailer they were
sleeping in. She awakened Lee and together they watched a light display
and pattern of events very much like the one described by Billy."

I find this SO incredibly laughable, considering Lee and Brit Elders are the producers of the documentaries and some books on the Meier case. Their company Intercept, and later Genesis III stood to gain quite alot of money from the case being a reality through the sale of videos and other publications.

In my opinion, these are NOT credible "witnesses", but ones who stood to gain by the case being portrayed as "real". Of course they'll back it up by saying they saw something.

Horn will grab onto ANY possible person, even those who made the case a business venture. If this is the best he's got, he'd be wise to quit while he's behind.

There are a bunch of witnesses listed in the books Any Still They Fly by Guido Moosebrugger & a book called Through Space & Time. Even through they are pro Mr. Meier. All you need to do is an independant interview. But to think there are no witnesses is not true. But of course will you accept any of them since they go against your conclusions.
 
ufoman said:
There are a bunch of witnesses listed in the books Any Still They Fly by Guido Moosebrugger & a book called Through Space & Time. Even through they are pro Mr. Meier. All you need to do is an independant interview. But to think there are no witnesses is not true. But of course will you accept any of them since they go against your conclusions.
Well, I had discussions with "he who shall not be named" about other cases which the Meier case claimed were false and him being the authorised rep I took it up with him. You wouldn't believe how much twisting and turning the man did to keep Meier's claims intact. In an act that showed his true colors, eyewitnesses (in other cases) suddenly weren't good enough while he uses the same thing to partly present his own case. Photographs? Same thing and didn't mean anything. The guy will do anything and that includes using double standards, to put the Meier case on top of everything and everybody.
 
Has MH ever commented on Jeff Ritzman's photos he made? I haven't seen the photos, the link was broke at the ATS forums. I was wondering how well of a job he did and if MH has commented on them.


I thought this was funny.

No fallen carpet tack though. Not quite a duplicate.


Here's a documentary on Billy M.
 
Mindsky-
He will not comment on them other then to say that I wont subject mine to the same testing as Meier's went thru. My answer is when Meier submits his to independant 3rd party testing, I'll submit my own right along with them. Which was one of the main reasons I did them to start with. IIG WEst duplicated some long before I, and that was his answer to them as well. I figured I'd put it to him about the 3rd party testing, and after that he basically martyred himself on ATS and blantantly lashed out personally, which he'd been warned several times about and told he'd be banned at the next outburst. Guess what. Next post, outburst. I am convinced he did so, so as not to have to hang around and explain how I could do these shots with nothing bit a string, camera, and a model.

He has refused to do so since that day. Past that, he doesnt like to see them brought up, nor does he mention them.

Here they are:
deck1.jpg

deck2.jpg

deck3.jpg

deck4.jpg

deck5.jpg
 
Nice pics - I've had a ride in a ship just like that. I was in economy class ;D.

Anyway, I was 'undecided' about the Billy Meier case until I heard the paracast interviews with MH - I think it's pretty obvious that this guy is purely in this for the attention he gets.

I thought David's photo analysis was carried out in a thorough and unbiased manner - after all, he himself has witnessed unexplained aerial phenomena and so has no real motive to 'fix' the outcome of the analysis.

In the end, I'm pretty tired of this story. I think there are far more plausible cases than this one.

I mean, BM loses an arm and his pet alien friends offers him a 'new' one and he says 'no thanks' 'cos he doesn't want to draw attention to the possibility that he really is in contact with ETs while at the same time he's having real difficulty persuading people that his photos and videos are genuine - what a load of baloney.
 
Thanks for the pics. I figured MH would use the fact you have 2 arms against the photos.

What you mentioned is all I have been able to find as to his comments to your photos. Other than his comments about you at his site. I figure you've read it. If not, it's at his site. He talks about how it took you 4 months to do.

I'm going to make a sig that says, "DUPLICATE IT!!!" in tribute to MH.

Nice pics btw. In a few it was hard to see how you did it with a fishing pole and model.

I'm surprised he hasn't used the fact that you didn't duplicate the landed WC photo. The one by the house. That CLEARLY looks fake, yet he defends it.
 
I only used one arm....I'm not kidding.

I've read most all he's had to say about me...the funny thing is, and I mentioned this to David...despite that I am according to Horn, "ignorant" a "Liar", "incompetant", 'insignificant", etc etc...he cannot, nor can any of his minions...stop talking about me.

If I'm so insignificant, then I wouldnt be worth talking about.

These pictures didnt take 4 months to do. Thats the second set he requested, the WC ship. I flatly told him I did these first shots within a coupel days...the WC ship I told him many times I'd do when I got time, and I wasnt on his clock working to build the model.

Little did I know this was a timed test. Essentially I abandoned the WC ship because, truthfully, if these pictures didnt satisfy them as being easy to do...or quell the argument, what was another set going to do?

Answer: Nothing...just get me more snipes and more aggravation. So, I promptly told Horn after one barrage of his crap, to F^& off and I wasnt doing the WC ship on his timetable....even he doesnt know that if in fact this was a model (which we know it is) no one had any idea how long it would have taken Meier to make.

Yeah that landed WC is a hoot. I cant figure out why anyone in their right mind would buy that as a large object?....I guess I answered my own question.

Yet I had to assemble found parts in a couple days. Again, what kind of logic is this?

THAT is what Horn will comment on. He claims I "failed", when in fact, I quit due to his attitude and the realization that I was wasting my time trying to show anyone anything within the Meier "hub". I showed them several items over months...even in black and white and clearly visible issues with the "evidence", they refused to see it.

He will NOT comment or post anywhere, these posted here (above). Because he and his cronies are scared to dickens of these photos. Pathetic.

Hence why he wouldnt pony up Meier negatives against these to an independant 3rd party analyst.

These posted above are the first set he ever challenged me to do.

One day I'll get the gumption to do the WC ship model, could be fun to replicate the model just for my own collection. :) When I shoot it, we'll have fun watching yet another meltdown.
 
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