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June 25, 2017 — John DeSouza


Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Former FBI Special Agent John DeSouza provided an interesting look at the UFO phenomenon in light of the possibility that it has an extra-dimensional source. But what about the end game? Or is it an "end times" game?

There's a very brief mention of the show in this weekend's After The Paracast podcast, which features special guests Greg Bishop and Alejandro Rojas. After The Paracast is only available to subscribers of The Paracast+. You can learn more about our subscription service here:

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I agree with Alejandro that documents should be distributed before they are vetted. Let the public vet them. Isn't that the way it worked with the Roswell slides? Once they were revealed, they were debunked.
 
But the sponsors of the Roswell Slides spent months touting its reliability before the truth came out. If they just kept their mouths shut, and had it properly checked first, it wouldn't be a matter of discussion. Why waste time on obvious false leads?
 
Gene, in this week's episode you brought up the question "how many samples do ETs need?"

I'm not a nuts and bolter, but this is not a strong argument against it.

Our scientists repeatedly take samples of all sorts of mundane things. If supposed ETs are doing science, then they'd need new samples all the time to test the repeatability of their findings.

More importantly, why are we assuming "aliens" or other intelligences aren't as mystified by us as we are of them? They are, allegedly, coming from a different planet, solar system, galaxy, dimension, bringing their own frame of reference. We may be as insane and uncategorical as they are to us.
 
Millions of samples across time?

I agree that we cannot hope to understand alien intelligence, but this is all speculative. We have no idea if these abductions are alien related, actually. They would only seem to be.
 
Look, the "sponsors" of the Roswell Slides hoax were in it to make money. Period. Everything they did, how they behaved, points to that inevitable conclusion. There was no way they were going to let people study their "evidence" before they had fleeced the public. That would be like Ray Santilli allowing people to be in the editing room when fabricating the alien autopsy film. We do not get to look behind the curtain, otherwise the scam would be revealed before the big payoff. These people are modern day P.T. Barnums and are cynically using people's interest in aliens and UFOs to line their pockets, plain and simple. This goes for Heather Wade and her "new" MJ12 documents and it even goes for Jan Harzan and MUFON, complete with their fantasy-filled keynote speakers "symposium" line-up. Any "scientific research" they do as an organization is secondary, not to mention proven to be irrelevant. What discoveries has it lead to? What questions has it answered? What insights have we gleaned? As long as stupid people line up like sheep and open up their wallets for guys like Stephen Greer, Jaime Maussan, Michael Salla, David Wilcock, Corey Goode and James Gilliland, to name but a few, the scams and hoaxes will never end. There's good money to be made by dishonest operators looking to exploit the curiosity of "true believers." While I'm on my little rant, Alejandro Rojas, Open Minds and UFO Congress making Tom DeLonge "Researcher of the Year" doesn't help either, though I don't put them in remotely the same category as those previously mentioned. I just think calling Tom DeLonge a "researcher," let alone giving him an award for being one, is a slap in the face to hard-working, long-standing real researchers like, say, Christopher O'Brien? It seems like pandering to attract a wider audience and, frankly, detracts from Open Minds/UFO Congress' credibility.

Regarding this week's show, I really didn't vibe with much of what the guest was selling. He was worthwhile to have on, I just didn't come away interested in his take on things. I did enjoy this week's After The Paracast. Always love Greg Bishop and Alejandro's measured, thoughtful and down-to-earth commentary and they don't shy away from calling "bullshit" when they see/hear it. Thanks Gene.
 
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I liked DeSouza as a person, but agree that his beliefs, with the "end times" implications, kinda lost me. I'm not averse to UFOs from the multiverse and all, but I would hope we can base it all on facts and sensible theories rather than faith alone.

Then again, at my age, my end times probably aren't too far off.
 
Gene, please take a look at the Andreasson Affair books from 1979 and 1982. Also Missing Time (1981) by Budd Hopkins, Intruders (1986) by Budd Hopkins, and The UFO Incident movie (1975) based on the Barney and Betty Hill abduction. In these sources you find lots and lots of gray aliens. Whitley Streiber's book wasn't published until 1987, and the gray alien archetype was present many years before that. To say that gray aliens started with Strieber is just incorrect.

Also, Strieber never claimed to have seen any of the typical grays, and the being on the cover of his book is beige, not gray.
 
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You're right, you can trace them earlier, but the image became embedded in our public consciousness as the result of that book cover, despite the color concerns. The beings the Hills reported had grayish skins, but seemed more human than the common concept.
 
It's the luck of the Jewish. My now departed car, a VW sedan, is well rated for safety. I wear seat belts religiously, and the air bags went off as designed when the collision occurred. The car was pushed into a pole, but didn't flip over. Thank the gods.

The medics on the scene didn't consider me to be injured sufficiently to rush to a hospital, but they informed me that if I felt any untoward symptoms, I should get to a doctor right away. So far it's mostly aches and pains, sometimes really annoying, so I will get to a doctor in the next day or two.
 
Well, I was waiting to make a U-turn at an intersection, and the truck swerved in my direction and clipped the vehicle in the front.
 
It's the luck of the Jewish. My now departed car, a VW sedan, is well rated for safety. I wear seat belts religiously, and the air bags went off as designed when the collision occurred. The car was pushed into a pole, but didn't flip over. Thank the gods.

The medics on the scene didn't consider me to be injured sufficiently to rush to a hospital, but they informed me that if I felt any untoward symptoms, I should get to a doctor right away. So far it's mostly aches and pains, sometimes really annoying, so I will get to a doctor in the next day or two.

I am glad you were not seriously injured, i know you are feeling down right now and you have a right to be. "It could have been worse" is likely a small consolation. But there are glass half full aspects to this that i hope will become the prevailing memory of the incident in time.
You lost a car, but your wife kept a husband and we kept a treasured friend.
Try and focus on the positives.
 
I like the way Richard Dolan was called out on not checking his sources not many moments after Gene used the "97% of scientists agree" global warming stat.

For anyone who has done any research into the climate debate, the "97%" stat is debunked like Aztec is for anyone who has done any kind of research into UFOlogoy.

The attached link from 2 mins 35 will get you upto speed on this debunking so you don't have to do another "Dolan" in future

 
Millions of samples across time?

I agree that we cannot hope to understand alien intelligence, but this is all speculative. We have no idea if these abductions are alien related, actually. They would only seem to be.
How many samples do we take with academic, ecological, and business testing a year across the globe?

Probably tens of millions.

This argument never held water for me, either. If we were in sustained contact with another biosphere for decades/millennia, we'd probably do the same.
 
I went back and listened to the episode again (don't ask me why) and have some additional comments to share with the class. Mr. DeSouza's previous career as an FBI agent (and silly "X-man" nickname) lent no insider information, or educated insight to his theory. And the fact that he stated that someone in the FBI was "leaking" real paranormal X-Files cases to Chris Carter and/or the show's writers, but that the FBI ultimately decided to "allow the show continue," was laughable! On what silly grounds would the FBI have to shut down a television show, leaks or not? Credibility factor deflation alert!

So Mr. DeSouza feels ALL sightings/contact falls under the extra-dimensional hypothesis, yet I don't recall him ever laying out during the episode the theoretical basis, or intrinsic reasoning, for his singular belief in this hypothesis at the exclusion of all others. How was he convinced that all of this is exclusively extra-dimensional? Not to mention his insistence that all UFOs are "plasma craft." What proof could he direct us towards to substantiate his beliefs? We don't know because he offered none. Perhaps he does in his book but he mentioned none of it during his interview.

Also, he spent most of the episode rehashing historical UFO events and "mansplaining" them to the hosts. During the last segment, the cherry on top of this shit sundae, was his insistence that there are numerous examples online of video and photos of the actual black triangle craft related to the Phoenix Lights event. Me thinks he's been spending too much time at ThirdPhaseOfMoon on YouTube. As Chris pointed out in response, thousands are estimated to have actually seen the craft but no documented visual evidence exists. It's been 20 years, if credible photos or videos of the reportedly massive craft were in the public domain we would have seen them and you can sure as hell be sure Marc D'Antonio and Dr. Bruce Maccabee would have analyzed them! His further insistence that the video of the flares being dropped by the military later that evening, often confused by those less-informed as "evidence" of the Phoenix Lights being UFOs, of having taken place a WEEK later is patently ridiculous. As Chris again pointed out, the flares episode happened much later in the evening. That's another indisputable fact. The guest really face-planted right before the finish line in my book. Up until the final segment it was basically a random guy, who has clearly read some UFO books, and done some targeted Googling, sharing his personal, seemingly unfounded belief that all UFO phenomena is all extra-dimensional.

To that I say balderdash!
 
During the last segment, the cherry on top of this shit sundae, was his insistence that there are numerous examples online of video and photos of the actual black triangle craft related to the Phoenix Lights event.

I think I may have wet myself over the shit sundae comment, bravo! Also, i had the unfortunate happenstance of buying Mr. Desouza's book before he was a guest and perhaps its best served as toilet paper to be used after digesting the Shit Sundae he attempted to serve on the show. Thanks again Gene and Chris as always for the fact checks on this guest; overall, despite the outlandish claims, it was an entertaining show.
 
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