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July 31, 2011 Show

Greg M

Skilled Investigator
I had been looking forward to it, but it was hard to listen to. Paul Budding was very hard to understand. I am usually very good at a brit accent, but with the metallic (???) quality of his phone made it very hard to listen to ( I tired every sound setting for my ipod, but nothing worked. Every one else sound great. I have to take breaks, in listening to the show. ( I am not sure if there was an echo in the room as well). The audio was almost like listening to some from Dr. WHO.
I hope I can fight thru it and get over the sound / tin quality.
 

drew hempel

Skilled Investigator
If Chris O'Brien and Paul Budding want to really take Robert Hastings seriously then they need to read James T. Carlson's expose on Hastings' supposed strongest evidence -- the Malstrom Nuke incident. I've read James T. Carlson's book in detail and it completely debunks Hastings' claim of a UFO sighting at Malstrom. The evidence speaks for itself -- Carlson also investigates the real reason for the nuke shutdown at Malstrom. Carlson has written a very well-researched expose book on the fake claim for a UFO at Malstrom. In other words Carlson's book is a must read for anyone claiming to consider Hastings to be a serious UFO investigator. Walt Figel, the supposed witness that Hastings relies on, clearly disowns Hastings so anyone relying on Hastings is being pawned.

Did It Really Happen?: Walter Figel: No UFOs at Echo and Doubtful of Shutdowns at Oscar


Walt finally responded at length to both James and I. He listed the major points that he believes are at issue here. Figel clearly states as of Sept 24th, 2010 – that not only does he believe UFO’s were not involved at Echo Flight, but Figel also reveals some shocking insight into some of Salas’ other claims regarding issues beyond the Echo Flight case. Here is what Figel had to say on the matter.
James,
First – your dad has not lied about anything nor do believe that he is even capable of lying about anything at all. He was, is, and always will be an honorable man. You should remember that always – I will.
Second – Bob Salas was never associated with any shutdown of any missiles at any time in any flight and you can take that to the bank. Just think about this for a split second. He is a person wrapped up in UFOs to the Nth degree. Yet he could not remember he was not at Echo. Then he thought he was at November – wrong again. Then he thought he was at Oscar – wrong again.
Third – There is no record about anything happening at November or Oscar except in people’s minds that are flawed beyond imagination. Salas has created events out of the thin air and can’t get the facts straight even then. My best friend to this day was the flight commander of the 10th SMS at the time. He and I have discussed this silly assertion in the past couple of years – he thinks it is all madeup nonsense for sure. I put both Salas and Hastings in touch with him and he has told them both that an incident at November or Oscar never happened. In addition he was subsequently stationed at Norton AFB where the engineers tested the possible problems. No little green men were responsible.
Fourth – I have always maintained that I do not nor have I ever believed that UFOs exist in any form at any place at any time. I have never seen one or reported that I have seen one. I have always maintained that they had nothing to do with the shutdown of Echo flight in Montana.
Fifth – The event at Malmstrom has a hand written log from me that was turned in just like all the other logs that I wrote over several years. I would think that if I wrote something like that in the log, there would be copies, it would have been classified at the beginning and then released along with the classified SAC messages and base reports. Nothing in that urgent SAC message even hints of UFOs at all and I think that it would if the official logs or telephone calls had referenced that fact.
Sixth – When it happened, neither your dad nor I were “visibly shaken” by the events. It was just another day with a unexpected event in our lives. It was rather underwhelming at the time. No one rushed out to see us, no one made us sign any papers, no one interrogated us for hours on end.
There is no Air Force “cover-up” it just did not happen the way Salas and has portrayed the course of events. I am sorry that you are all caught up in a pissing contest with these people, I really am. They are just not going to let go no matter what you say or do. He has made a 15 year career pandering about the country talking about things he has no knowledge about. I am not at all interested in taking them on – it’s not worth my effort – I have more important things to do with my life. I much rather just stay out of it.
Hopefully, we can move on. I did read about a briefing on the 27th here in DC. I am here in VA about 10 miles away. Interesting. Hopefully this helps you and confirms to you at least that your dad is a straight shooter and does not lie to anyone.
Sincerely,
Walt Figel
Here James T. Carlson responds to the numerous ad hominems about him online vis a vis Robert Hastings The Bunny's Retort by James Carlson

Here's James T. Carlson's original expose on Robert Hasting's claim for UFOs at Malstrom: Americans, Credulous by James Carlson

July 31, 2011

Case Closed? A Re-Evaluation of the Echo Flight Incident

http://realityuncovered.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36563#p36563

http://timhebert.blogspot.com/2011/07/case-closed-re-evaluation-of-echo.html
 

trainedobserver

Paranormally Disenchanted
I thought Gene made an excellent point about Ufology not progressing since the 50s. I think it indicates a human limitation. We may simply not be able to understand what UFOs actually are in any real sense because we are psychologically prevented from doing so. Here's a scary thought. What if that is by design?

“Something is seen, but one doesn’t know what.”
Carl Jung, Flying Saucers:A Modern Myth of Thing Seen in the Sky.
 

Lauren Jones

Skilled Investigator
If Chris O'Brien and Paul Budding want to really take Robert Hastings seriously then they need to read James T. Carlson's expose on Hastings' supposed strongest evidence -- the Malstrom Nuke incident. I've read James T. Carlson's book in detail and it completely debunks Hastings' claim of a UFO sighting at Malstrom. The evidence speaks for itself -- Carlson also investigates the real reason for the nuke shutdown at Malstrom. Carlson has written a very well-researched expose book on the fake claim for a UFO at Malstrom. In other words Carlson's book is a must read for anyone claiming to consider Hastings to be a serious UFO investigator. Walt Figel, the supposed witness that Hastings relies on, clearly disowns Hastings so anyone relying on Hastings is being pawned.

Did It Really Happen?: Walter Figel: No UFOs at Echo and Doubtful of Shutdowns at Oscar




Here James T. Carlson responds to the numerous ad hominems about him online vis a vis Robert Hastings The Bunny's Retort by James Carlson

Here's James T. Carlson's original expose on Robert Hasting's claim for UFOs at Malstrom: Americans, Credulous by James Carlson

July 31, 2011

Case Closed? A Re-Evaluation of the Echo Flight Incident

http://realityuncovered.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36563#p36563

http://timhebert.blogspot.com/2011/07/case-closed-re-evaluation-of-echo.html

I agree that Reality Uncovered has done great work on this case. Any serious discussion of the alleged incident should address the issues they raise.
 

boomerang

Paranormal Adept
Having been personally acquainted with a major player in another such incident (Minot in the 60's) I take Hastings and his witnesses seriously.

Carlson's charges are all the more reason to bring Hastings forward to offer his evidence and rebuttal. This could make for a very interesting show!

-----------------

Oops--The thread sort of wandered off topic and I wandered with it. I very much enjoyed the interview with Mr. Budding. The audio on my computer came through as a bit garbled. But overall, it was quite interesting.
 

drew hempel

Skilled Investigator
Having been personally acquainted with a major player in another such incident (Minot in the 60's) I take Hastings and his witnesses seriously.

Carlson's charges are all the more reason to bring Hastings forward to offer his evidence and rebuttal. This could make for a very interesting show!

-----------------

Oops--The thread sort of wandered off topic and I wandered with it. I very much enjoyed the interview with Mr. Budding. The audio on my computer came through as a bit garbled. But overall, it was quite interesting.
Did It Really Happen?: Did a UFO Attempt to Launch Minot AFB ICBMs?

Yeah the Minot 1960s sighting is hazy at best.
 

Roro

aka Arlen Royal Woods
Best statement of the show.

"you just earned your anal probe"
Chris O'Brien

Great stuff, thanks for the laugh Chris.
 

Schuyler

Misanthrope
Where did you find this guy and what does he have to offer? His new UFO institute is 2 weeks old. It’s a blog with four articles on it. He has written less than a dozen papers and self-published them on the web, wanting about $20 for each in one place. One of them is “In-Praise of the Self-Educated and Self-Empowered Individual.” His output is probably less than 50,000 words total. He says he is a self-taught Jungian scholar. That’s great for what it is, but you have to ask yourself: What is it? Basically he’s saying we have to find out what it is we want to study before we can study it. It kind of reminded me of Walter Mondale asking Gary Hart just what new ideas he had. “Where’s the beef?” he asked, from the TV commercial. I’m sorry, but after listening for two hours I came away from the program having learned nothing new at all. I’m sorry; maybe it’s just me. Where’s the beef?
 

Will Penguin

Skilled Investigator
I had been looking forward to it, but it was hard to listen to. Paul Budding was very hard to understand. I am usually very good at a brit accent, but with the metallic (???) quality of his phone made it very hard to listen to.
I just finished reading The Mothman Prophecies and when I first heard Mr Budding's voice I thought "There's the perpretator of the phone calls with the sped up, metallic voices! Get 'im!"
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Where did you find this guy and what does he have to offer? His new UFO institute is 2 weeks old. It’s a blog with four articles on it. He has written less than a dozen papers and self-published them on the web, wanting about $20 for each in one place. One of them is “In-Praise of the Self-Educated and Self-Empowered Individual.” His output is probably less than 50,000 words total. He says he is a self-taught Jungian scholar. That’s great for what it is, but you have to ask yourself: What is it? Basically he’s saying we have to find out what it is we want to study before we can study it. It kind of reminded me of Walter Mondale asking Gary Hart just what new ideas he had. “Where’s the beef?” he asked, from the TV commercial. I’m sorry, but after listening for two hours I came away from the program having learned nothing new at all. I’m sorry; maybe it’s just me. Where’s the beef?
That he has a new UFO organization doesn't mean his interest in UFOs is necessarily new. That shouldn't be inferred by what he said on the show. Beyond that, think what you will about it. I can always depend on you to give an honest assessment.
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
I didn't even listen and find myself cheering for Shuyler. :) But, at least "self educated" means those mean old skeptics can't debunk his education. ;)
 

Brad

Skilled Investigator
I thought it was a fairly interesting show. Not necessarily groundbreaking, but I did like that there is apparently someone interested in looking at things and not being too entrenched or jaded. He didn't really saw anything new, but there seems like there's potential for really interesting future interviews.
 

tyder001

Paranormal Adept
Would you rather no one debunk a liar?
Angel, you are smarter than that. Read the post slowly...see the sarcasm...I think I'm on the same page. I forget sometime that everybody dosen't always comprehend what I or anyone else is thinking when posting. Also, when you have to explain a joke...Oh well. :p
 

Christopher O'Brien

Back in the Saddle Aginn
Staff member
Best statement of the show. "you just earned your anal probe" Great stuff, thanks for the laugh Chris.
Thanks, I almost self-edited that comment, but decided to say it anyway. btw: I grew up in Medina--where in Bellevue are you?
 

Angel of Ioren

Friendly Skeptic
Angel, you are smarter than that. Read the post slowly...see the sarcasm...I think I'm on the same page. I forget sometime that everybody dosen't always comprehend what I or anyone else is thinking when posting. Also, when you have to explain a joke...Oh well. :p
Well, with all the shots you take at skeptics outing these lying assholes, I'm starting to think that it's more than a joke. Trust me, I'm not lacking in a sense of humour - I just went to four Just for Laughs (the international comedy festival) shows. I know jokes.
By the way - I watched Marc Maron's WTF and Chris Hardwick's Nerdist podcasts live this week and they were AMAZING. Highly recommend those shows to anyone.
 

red_pill_junkie

Paranormal Adept
Here's a question: Just how many members does this Serious New Ufology Institute currently have?

PS: Oh. I've just reached the 1:07:00 minute of the interview, and Paul says (I think) that it's just him and his Canadian buddy.

It kinda reminded me of this:



;)
 

Jeff Crowell

Paranormal Annoyance
Yeah, I have to admit, for whatever reason I thought this guy was going to come on and offer a lot of out-of-the box thinking regarding UFO's, but an hour into it I realized he was just spewing the same stuff. Couple that with the fact that the episode was difficult to listen to, I, unfortunately, lost interest and stopped listening altogether. Who knows, though. Maybe down the road he'll stumble over something new.

Where did you find this guy and what does he have to offer? His new UFO institute is 2 weeks old. It’s a blog with four articles on it. He has written less than a dozen papers and self-published them on the web, wanting about $20 for each in one place. One of them is “In-Praise of the Self-Educated and Self-Empowered Individual.” His output is probably less than 50,000 words total. He says he is a self-taught Jungian scholar. That’s great for what it is, but you have to ask yourself: What is it? Basically he’s saying we have to find out what it is we want to study before we can study it. It kind of reminded me of Walter Mondale asking Gary Hart just what new ideas he had. “Where’s the beef?” he asked, from the TV commercial. I’m sorry, but after listening for two hours I came away from the program having learned nothing new at all. I’m sorry; maybe it’s just me. Where’s the beef?
 


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