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January 26, 2020 — Leslie Kean Returns


Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
This time Leslie talks about the front page stories she co-authored for The New York Times, and her book about life after death.

Randall and I felt we had only just begun to explore the latter when the show ended, and so we had her back on this weekend's edition of After The Paracast.

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Jenny Chan

Paranormal Novice
I also read Jim Tucker's books on the children's past lives, and they were very convincing.

My Psych mentor also knew Ian Stevenson back in the day and vouched for his research and ethics.

Reincarnation's implications are arguably bigger than UFOs IMHO, if not equal in importance, and a great paranormal topic.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
I also read Jim Tucker's books on the children's past lives, and they were very convincing.

My Psych mentor also knew Ian Stevenson back in the day and vouched for his research and ethics.

Reincarnation's implications are arguably bigger than UFOs IMHO, if not equal in importance, and a great paranormal topic.
Applying logic to the best evidence reveals problems with the concept of afterlives in general, including dependent ideas such as reincarnation, that make them impossible, and therefore the notions we are accustomed to about them cannot be accurate. However I don't dismiss the reality of the experiences that have led people to believe in such things. It's just that because those interpretations aren't actually possible, something else must be the cause. So you may still be correct about the significance of the implications, just not in the way most people imagine.
 
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Sand

Paranormal Adept
Applying logic to the best evidence reveals problems with the concept of afterlives in general, including dependent ideas such as reincarnation, that make them impossible, and therefore the notions we are accustomed to about them cannot be accurate.
I have not looked much into the idea of reincarnation and have no strong opinion on it or the afterlife. Randall, could you elaborate on the logical impossibility of reincarnation and the afterlife. Thanks.
 

blowfish

Whittingham
Science is the best tool at the moment and eyewitness accounts . I rather keep an open mind unless the Scientist have the abilty to venture into death realms and come back to life its just theories . It awaits us all. On the UAP subject a betting man would put a few coins on more details after the U.S. election.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
I have not looked much into the idea of reincarnation and have no strong opinion on it or the afterlife. Randall, could you elaborate on the logical impossibility of reincarnation and the afterlife. Thanks.
I suggest checking out my recently updated post: Why Afterlives Are Impossible.
Science is the best tool at the moment and eyewitness accounts . I rather keep an open mind unless the Scientist have the abilty to venture into death realms and come back to life its just theories ...
The word "best" is somewhat subjective. If our aim is to discover the truth, then whatever tools get us there when all others fail are IMO the best. Science is a powerful tool, but in the case of afterlives, it cannot get us there. This only becomes evident later when we understand why. The alternative is critical thinking. It can get us there, and in doing so it can inform science that the quest for an afterlife is a pursuit based on a faulty premise. It is like the pursuit of a four sided triangle, or a three sided square. It's not possible. The premise needs to be changed.
 
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Sand

Paranormal Adept
Interesting thoughts. I see what you are saying. I’ve heard similar questions asked in speculations about quantum teleportation of humans. The person exiting out the other end has all of your memories and is convinced they just successfully transported through as the same person. But that person is made up of different particles. The you that went in, made up of the original particles, was destroyed.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Interesting thoughts. I see what you are saying. I’ve heard similar questions asked in speculations about quantum teleportation of humans. The person exiting out the other end has all of your memories and is convinced they just successfully transported through as the same person. But that person is made up of different particles. The you that went in, made up of the original particles, was destroyed.
Exactly. Much the same as the old Star Trek transporter problem. I think McCoy was onto something. From here it gets even more interesting ( IMO ), because we're still left with the question of accounting for the phenomena. If it's not really someone in an afterlife, what is it? What is creating the copy? Aren't we already essentially copies of ourselves after so many years?

What if time is quantized? If so, we exist as an infinite number of successive copies that are created and destroyed ( or archived ) like frames in a filmstrip. If that's the case, an afterlife copy might be considered as legitimate a version of as any other. But I have a bit of a hard time accepting that, because if I do, then there is no continuity of anything. And yet, I see no reasoning that could prevent it from being the case.
 
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blowfish

Whittingham
Mrs L . Kean interview was good and insightful . It also touched on the afterlife which keep an open mind and the strange elements of Ghosts sightings. Oddly, when the subject comes up in conversation with folks it tends to get the ridicule effect and then people will come up to those who discussed the subject tell of a strange event when they are away from the groups of folks .

This does tend to rely on trust of the eyewitness accounts on their sightings . I remember talking a friend who job was to go out to large natural disasters and ID folks of all ages who were killed in the events . He told of a few strange event which left him pretty shaken and the little methods to keep him safe from bring anything home. Faith was one element and they used to talked about the cases among themselves .

One saw the classic shadow figures and another items moving from scene and then re-appearing . Another who kept hearing the folks talking and appearing. Like the great work of U.S. Veteran Police Detective Mr. D. Plaudies on the strange cases of Missing 411.

Maybe , Mrs L. Kean could work with the large case files which seem to have similar stall procedure and do a book on the subject. These unknown events are off putting and many folks rather keep it to themselves and no doubt tip of the iceberg of 411 strange cases and the elements of orbs, shadows, weather changes , complete silence and then odd noises (mechanical/ electronic) , swirling wind /cloud and flashes. The unknown has the ability to manipulate its environment and has total situation awareness.
 
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USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Mrs L . Kean interview was good and insightful . It also touched on the afterlife which keep an open mind and the strange elements of Ghosts sightings. Oddly, when the subject comes up in conversation with folks it tends to get the ridicule effect and then people will come up to those who discussed the subject tell of a strange event when they are away from the groups of folks
I like Leslie. But unlike her, I have nothing invested in promoting the idea of afterlives ( one way or the other ). So I can change my views whenever sufficient reason comes along, without affecting my reputation or livelihood. If evidence that would change my mind about afterlives being impossible comes along tomorrow, I can change my views accordingly. That is the essence of having an open mind.

The problem is that for the concept of afterlives, no amount of additional evidence can make them possible. So while I agree with keeping our minds open to possibilities, let's not waste time and energy investigating the impossible. To get a grip on why afterlives are impossible I suggest checking out my recently updated post:
Why Afterlives Are Impossible.
One saw the classic shadow figures and another items moving from scene and then re-appearing . Another who kept hearing the folks talking and appearing. Like the great work of U.S. Veteran Police Detective Mr. D. Plaudies on the strange cases of Missing 411.

Maybe , Mrs L. Kean could work with the large case files which seem to have similar stall procedure and do a book on the subject. These unknown events are off putting and many folks rather keep it to themselves and no doubt tip of the iceberg of 411 strange cases and the elements of orbs, shadows, weather changes , complete silence and then odd noises (mechanical/ electronic) , swirling wind /cloud and flashes. The unknown has the ability to manipulate its environment and has total situation awareness.
I have no doubt that strange phenomena exist and that people have genuine experiences. But if we are to get any closer to understanding what's going on, then we need to be able to filter out anything that isn't true. In the case of creating hypotheses, there are those that are reasonable, unreasonable, possible, and impossible. Of these four choices, only the first three can be true.

Therefore if we can eliminate hypotheses that are impossible, we have already removed 25% of the problem, and energy that would be otherwise wasted, can be focused on exploring possibilities. Unfortunately, past life believers are often so deeply invested in their belief, that no amount of reasoning can keep them from drinking the metaphorical Cool Aid.
 
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blowfish

Whittingham
Indeed,
Mrs L. Kean great work on the UFO/UAP topic and next book she can move back to the middle of the road subject. Science does hold theories that could answer many of these unkown events that have labels to keep us in a set of ideas. The afterlife or dimension travel / existence still a belief system which many hold dear as comfort lose. Also those who fear death and science is a tool /religion depending on your political veiw. Agree strange encounters are real to those who experinced them and thier are those who ridicule .

Science might find the answers to elements of the so called term afterlife but not everything in is in a text book. Not many folks have come back to dispute the afterlife nor give it a 100 % tick. Remember see a person dyeing who kept reaching out and seeing a odd light in the corner . The person died a few hours later . Don't care what science tells us and make your own mind up (yes use science as a tool ) but in the end its your choice.
 
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USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Indeed,
Mrs L. Kean great work on the UFO/UAP topic and next book she can move back to the middle of the road subject. Science does hold theories that could answer many of these unknown events that have labels to keep us in a set of ideas. The afterlife or dimension travel / existence still a belief system which many hold dear as comfort lose.
You've got all that right. I understand on a psychological level why people cannot accept death, but I don't understand it on an emotional level. By that, I mean I've lost loved ones, and the pain is very real, but the idea that they continue on in some other realm, or return to this one as someone else, and that maybe I'll be united with them at some point in the future, never brought me any comfort, even when I believed in God and reincarnation.

There were too many open ends, and it all seemed so unfair. It was a complex mess. As I later came to accept what must be the truth, my shift in views unexpectedly brought me more comfort. Knowing that the stories of my dearly departed have come to an end gives me a sense of closure. I can cherish their memories as unique beings who once lived in this universe.

Maybe other people can find similar comfort. If not, it's certainly not my mission to rip away their emotional bandages. But at the same time, I believe that if we are to fully heal, sooner or later the bandages need to come off.
Also those who fear death and science is a tool /religion depending on your political view. Agree strange encounters are real to those who experienced them and there are those who ridicule . Science might find the answers to elements of the so called term afterlife but not everything in is in a text book. Not many folks have come back to dispute the afterlife nor give it a 100 % tick.
Even if seems like someone has returned from the dead. The best they can be is a copy of the original.
Remember see a person dyeing who kept reaching out and seeing a odd light in the corner . The person died a few hours later . Don't care what science tells us and make your own mind up (yes use science as a tool ) but in the end its your choice.
Perhaps it's the case that some people become so convinced by their beliefs that they have no choice. That's certainly true in my case. There is no way, given as far as I've come along this path, that I could honestly just choose to change my mind. I am fully committed to the idea that belief needs to be backed by more than faith and experience. Among other things, whenever possible, belief should also be accompanied by evidence and reason.

Why? Because all our modes have blind spots. Fortunately each mode can do a pretty good job of filling in the other's blind spots, if we let them. It takes a certain outlook to stick to this path, and it's not always easy or well received. But that doesn't mean we can't all be on the same team. This is dramatically portrayed in one of Star Trek's finest moments. From the movie Star Trek - The Final Frontier ...

 
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blowfish

Whittingham
The TV Series Star Trek is based on a utopia vision of the UN but in reality its a TV show with faults behind the scene. The current movement by 'Hollywood' is another example of stars who are Utopia drive ideologies that seeks to push its 'political ideologies of socialism constant drama on the World stage' and do find Netflix is better these days as its willing to except all film makers and supports low budget TV shows. Even willing to have UAP / paranormal shows /films on its programming, No doubt more to follow.

As Nick great interview gives a historical viewpoint from a person whose open minded to other possible powers playing behind our world and during the Cold War there were many sides not just US & Soviet Union which impacted the UAP movement. Today , the push for a legal binding framework to make all World states come under the umbrella of the UN through its EU and other academic networks is in place with S.DR. within the 'Climate Change policies'. So maybe the reality of the UN Star Trek is not just a vision of Utopia.
 
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USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
The TV Series Star Trek is based on a utopia vision of the UN but in reality its a TV show with faults behind the scene. The current movement by 'Hollywood' is another example of stars who are Utopia drive ideologies that seeks to push its 'political ideologies of socialism constant drama on the World stage' and do find Netflix is better these days as its willing to except all film makers and supports low budget TV shows. Even willing to have UAP / paranormal shows /films on its programming, No doubt more to follow. As Nick great interview gives a historical viewpoint from a person whose open minded to other possible powers playing behind our world and during the Cold War there were many sides not just US & Soviet Union which impacted the UAP movement. Today , the push for a legal binding framework to make all World states come under the umbrella of the UN through its EU and other academic networks is in place with S.DR. within the 'Climate Change policies'. So maybe the reality of the UN Star Trek is not just a vision of Utopia.
You make some very good points, but I'm still not clear if you would be for or against a United Federation of Planets. We just watched a rather different sort of paranormal movie on Netflix called ...
Horse Girl


Q. How do you feel about aliens? Are you a believer?
A. “I think it's real ... " - Alison Brie ( 2020 )


UFP-01a-180px.png
UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS
 
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blowfish

Whittingham
Can tell you the interview on Rick & Babba radio show with Calvin Parker . Spot on and the creatures ? HRD s. Not like the 1950s romantic rather no emotion unless provoked whatever they are ? The repeating signal is not two effects of exo-planets . As said U.S. President will tell after the election.
 


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