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January 14, 2018 — Walter Bosley with Alejandro Rojas


Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
A truly fascinating episode with guest cohost Alejandro Rojas.

During this show, Walter suggested that the former head of the Pentagon UFO study might still be working as an agent or contractor involved in perception management. Is that possible?

Alejandro and I continued the discussion as part of this weekend's episode of After The Paracast, the exclusive podcast that's part of a Paracast+ subscription.

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Okay let's have a look at a some of the possibilities surrounding the ideas floated.
  1. The TTSA venture is really an active secret operation to garner public support for a massive defense agency spending program to find out what UFOS are and develop the technology.
RESULT: The public would now know they've been seriously investigating UFOs behind the scenes and are putting big money into finding out more, and would be expecting answers.

The other theories are:

  1. It's a controlled disclosure.
  2. It's a for-real whistleblower situation that is exposing a real program intended to identify alien craft.
RESULT: Either admits knowledge of alien visitation.

The last options are:

  1. It's a disinformation project to make foreign nations think the DoD has info on alien visitation in order to test their Intelligence systems.
  2. Or the whole TTSA side of things is purely a fabrication intended to shake the truth loose and/or generate revenue they can cash-in on.
Out of all those options which seems to make the most sense? I'm thinking that the disinformation option is the most reasonable, in which case the data probably isn't genuine and is more likely some sort of training video combined with exaggerated stories from some real naval exercises.It would explain why the disclosure is so gradual. At each step they can monitor all their Intelligence gathering systems to assess how well they work, while at the same time assessing the ability of interested parties to determine whether or not the story is fake. All without revealing anything genuine or certain about themselves.

They could be doing the same thing with genuine gradual disclosure as well. But is just giving away sensitive info of a sensational nature something they tend to do? Not really. Why give away anything if they don't have to? It rarely happens. But when it does, they tend to make official PR statements rather than creating some independent corporate venture to make it look like they're hiding the truth and leaking it to the public. I mean really, if that doesn't sound like a conjured up conspiracy theory nothing does. So what should we believe?

What we can safely assume is that the Intelligence gathering networks of the world are going to be buzzing over this as much as we are, and that's going to cause allies to be making behind the scenes inquiries, in which case if it's for real, there very well could be a worldwide disclosure confirming an alien presence. If it's not for real the whole thing will probably just fade away without anything spectacular being disclosed, and the stuff we've seen so far will remain unconfirmed or explained away in some mundane fashion that nobody can be sure of one way or the other. I know what I'd like to see happen. I also know where I'd place my bet if I had to put money on it.


BTW I enjoyed the show. Bosley, Rojas, and Gene made for an excellent panel, even if Bosley's assumption that we have antigravity drives, never left the Moon, and have boots on Mars are just sci-fi fantasy ( IMO ).
 
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I disagree with the ‘sci-fi ideas’ about the Moon and Mars. I have stated previously that the US is strangely silent whenever comments arise about other countries that have begun lunar programs. I seriously doubt the US will stand idly by while others claim the Moon as their own.

I also have to think we have plans or already have missions to Mars. The US government/military is not going to allow enemies like Russia and China to beat them to these places. Besides, all that defense budget money has to be going somewhere. What better idea than outposts on the Moon and Mars.

Also, if we don’t have anti-gravity drives, you can damn sure believe some scientists are working hard on creating such devices.
 
The question of whether there is a secret space program is most vexing. Someone should take a poll on this question if it's possible in this forum.
 
I enjoyed the show and in particular Alejandro – he keeps things moving nicely. To a carpenter every problem’s a nail; to Walter Bosley with his background I can’t blame the man for having suspicion.

That said, speculation about the ulterior motives behind this recent event is just that – idle speculation without any proof. The video by itself shows absolutely no evidence of alien spacecraft – that’s what we want to see. It does show something highly unusual which even the pilot thought was a drone. Still could be. Wasn’t the purpose of the program to make observations of the flight characteristics of things exactly like this? Isn’t that just what Ray Stanford has been doing? He’s apparently still waiting for the ‘better book deal’ he mentioned to come along.

So we have this video and admission of a classified program. The fact that the private sector was contracted as part of it is not unusual. OK they have my attention and I look forward to see what, if anything, happens next. It’s not that the bear is dancing badly it’s that it’s dancing at all. If nothing comes of it then just add it to the already huge pile of disappointments.

Talk of conspiracy and ‘boots on Mars’ and the like don’t help. What – it’s OK to point to the ‘abductee’ or ‘time soldier’ at a convention and say ‘that’s nuts and hurts our credibility’ and then turn around and make sciency-sounding speculation about things for which there is about the same level of proof. This is why people snicker when you mention interest in the subject.
 
A quick comment about one of the overarching themes of this weeks narrative and one specific project; if slow disclosure is based on the public's ever-increasing ability to use COTS technology to view what they have tried so long to obscure/hide then it would seem that there would be an effort to delay or "bump" projects like the CubeSat project discussed this week? I find it disjointed that the discussion early in the program explores operatives and motivations for such efforts but yet we did not connect that dot for the one project which could actually yield results? If there is another delay in the CS project then the stakeholders i.e. public funders should ask why...there might be a there there.....
 
I was asked what I thought of a secret space program, a departure from the discussion about the NYT article contents etc. Just FYI. And there is a BIG difference between what I said and what the time-traveling space commandos and 'abductees' say. On that issue, look at what I said and compare. Equating what I said specifically to what those guys claim based primarily on the fact that one doesn't think it's true, or possible, doesn't connect. In other words. I have no problem with not being agreed with on what I said. That's perfectly reasonable. But what I said is quite clearly not what those other guys say. Also, disagree with my conclusions and speculations, but I don't come to them through claims of jumping through a portal or being taken to a space station in a bubble at night. Anyway, just wanted to clarify that and I stand by my judgment of time-traveling commandos and a lot of 'contactees'. :)


I enjoyed the show and in particular Alejandro – he keeps things moving nicely. To a carpenter every problem’s a nail; to Walter Bosley with his background I can’t blame the man for having suspicion.

That said, speculation about the ulterior motives behind this recent event is just that – idle speculation without any proof. The video by itself shows absolutely no evidence of alien spacecraft – that’s what we want to see. It does show something highly unusual which even the pilot thought was a drone. Still could be. Wasn’t the purpose of the program to make observations of the flight characteristics of things exactly like this? Isn’t that just what Ray Stanford has been doing? He’s apparently still waiting for the ‘better book deal’ he mentioned to come along.

So we have this video and admission of a classified program. The fact that the private sector was contracted as part of it is not unusual. OK they have my attention and I look forward to see what, if anything, happens next. It’s not that the bear is dancing badly it’s that it’s dancing at all. If nothing comes of it then just add it to the already huge pile of disappointments.

Talk of conspiracy and ‘boots on Mars’ and the like don’t help. What – it’s OK to point to the ‘abductee’ or ‘time soldier’ at a convention and say ‘that’s nuts and hurts our credibility’ and then turn around and make sciency-sounding speculation about things for which there is about the same level of proof. This is why people snicker when you mention interest in the subject.
 
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I was asked what I thought of a secret space program, a departure from the discussion about the NYT article contents etc. Just FYI. And there is a BIG difference between what I said and what the time-traveling space commandos and 'abductees' say. On that issue, look at what I said and compare. Equating what I said specifically to what those guys claim based primarily on the fact that one doesn't think it's true, or possible, doesn't connect. In other words. I have no problem with not being agreed with on what I said. That's perfectly reasonable. But what I said is quite clearly not what those other guys say. Also, disagree with my conclusions and speculations, but I don't come to them through claims of jumping through a portal or being taken to a space station in a bubble at night. Anyway, just wanted to clarify that and I stand by my judgment of time-traveling commandos and a lot of 'contactees'. :)

On a different note I read your January 3 2018 blog and can relate to a life changing epiphany. Burn the ships, strike out in a new direction and deal with the consequences. No matter how it turns out there is something to be said for having the courage of your convictions. I suppose that’s why I’ve had more time than usual to participate in online forums.

My comments were about the episode as a whole and frankly, I was listening while I was at the gym not while hunkered down taking specific notes. I do realize that what you were saying and what the space commandos et al. are talking about are two different things. But, I did hear about American off-Earth involvement and how it’s unlikely that we would cede the high ground of space, specifically the Moon and Mars and I do disagree with that. If I missed a disclaimer or something, sorry. I prefer to work with the specific facts at hand or those that might be extrapolated from history and in this case them find them interesting but don’t have enough to weave much of a tapestry.

I realize this is entertainment and podcasters work hard to keep their listeners interested and if my opinions were regularly expressed there would be no show, or at a minimum it would be drier than an old turkey fart. I am just a schmuck subscriber. Maybe it’s somehow related to my recent epiphany or maybe just age but after a lifetime of interest in UFOs, cryptids and the like somehow my by true belief has turned brittle and I prefer a less imaginative interpretation of recent events. Speculation makes for good entertainment but taken too far it’s counterproductive.

I also listen to SpyCast and Reuter’s War College and for anyone interested they present information about real world espionage and military activity. I never hear about multi-generational conspiracies or disclosure theories or anti-grav drive there.
 
Honestly I was pleasantly surprised by this episode. You come across as a sensible, intelligent grownup when you're on the show Walter. So I’m perplexed that you frequently comport yourself like a juvenile delinquent here in the forums. I’d like to see more posts from the guy who appeared on this show. And it was wonderful to hear Alejandro Rojas talk about his work on this story - he seems to see this very clearly, and it's cool that he's actually talked to Luis Elizondo about a speaking engagement (hint hint, Gene).

It’s certainly within the realm of possibility that Luis Elizondo is either a witting or unwitting accomplice in some kind of Pentagon operation, which was the central theme of this episode.

But it strikes me as a completely hypothetical proposition, like “reality could be the hallucinatory dream of a hyperdimensional gadfly” or something. I can’t prove that it’s not. But I can see no indication that it is, either. So it strikes me as idle speculation, and somewhat wicked idle speculation at that. I mean, my neighbor could be a Kremlin spy, but I don’t go around talking to people: “you know, Claude could be a Kremlin spy – have you ever considered that? I mean, what he could be up to in there, talking on the phone at all hours of the day, and walking around in his apartment late at night. What if he’s planning something terrible in there? By the time we figure it out, it could be too late!” Y’know what I mean? Sowing suspicion is a kinda rotten thing to do, without a wisp of evidence to support an argument. Sure, he worked in intelligence (and maybe he still does…shhh…). But crikee, lots of people work in intelligence, but what percentage of them are actively engaged in conducting PsyOps against the American people? Less than 5%, maybe? Less than 1%? Probably closer to the latter than the former.

And what exactly would they hope to accomplish with this? They don’t need any help raising the defense budget – Congress has already voluntarily doubled the annual budget increase that the DoD asked for. And they just voted in favor of the Orwellian surveillance state again. Threat of alien invasion not required here.

So what’s left? Some elaborate plot to make the media take this subject seriously for the first time in half a century, just to then blow it up in our faces to make us all look like fools? What would that accomplish? The media was already mocking us before this story broke – it would be hard to induce an even lower journalistic standard with regard to this subject, than we've already been subjected to for decades.

With those options out of the way, all I can see are agendas that I actually support, like some kind of gradual confirmation/disclosure, and/or slowly leaking out some kind of revolutionary technology from secret programs. I seriously doubt that the DoD would get behind either of those objectives, but they have my full support if that’s their diabolical plan.

But frankly everything seems to point to a far simpler, even mundane explanation: this is exactly what it appears to be. Luis Elizondo thought that he could make more headway presenting his findings to Gen. Mattis and other key people in government, by going public, with the consent of his former employers. And he wants to help advance public awareness and scientific research into the exotic technologies that he’s seen ample evidence for over his 10 years in the program. That’s his story anyway.

And I believe him. I mean, I’ve seen and heard every interview that he’s done, and every interview that Leslie Kean has done about this, and it all jibes. If they’re lying, then they’ve fooled me completely. And I’m not easy to fool – my BS detector is very sensitive, and it hasn’t even budged during their interviews. If they’re acting, then they deserve Emmys. Golden Globes, even.

In fact it baffles me that anyone can hear these people talk and answer questions, and come away suspicious. All of these people: Luis Elizondo, Leslie Kean, Steve Justice, Hal Puthoff, heck – even Tom DeLonge (as wild and frequently misled that he is), all seem completely sincere about what they’re doing. They believe that this phenomenon is real and alien to our civilization, and they want to get the story out in a powerful and compelling manner (which they’ve already accomplished - and more is coming, I’m sure of that), and this new TTSA organization also has high hopes (if extremely optimistic hopes) of figuring out how these things fly, and one day experimenting with it.

It’s like the saying goes “when you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras.” People looking for conspiracies all the time are out of their effing minds. Give it a rest already. Or at least offer an actual argument with some kind of supporting evidence.

I’m speaking generally here, not attacking Walter – he was very clear that he was just presenting a hypothetical scenario based on his professional experience. But of course, when you’re a carpenter everything looks like a nail, as they say.

I just can’t find a whisper of evidence that this is, in fact, some kind of covert operation. Or even an intelligible hypothesis for the motivation behind such a thing in this case. And I’m kind of fed up with the online conspiracy theorists rushing to be the first in line to make something sinister from everything that happens.

I know – we’ve been hurt before. The Billy Meier hoax, the sociopathic “Dr. Jonathan Reed” and his bogus alien in the refrigerator story, Andrew Basiago and his exotic Martian vacations with Obama, the stupid alien mummy slides, MUFON…we’ve loved and lost time and time again, and now we just want to curl up on the couch with Fluffy and dream of the good ole days when it seemed like the truth about UFOs would surely come out in some majestic Presidential press conference. It’s hard to put yourself out there and embrace the latest shiny new hope that promises a happily ever after.

But it’s time to learn to love again. Because this could be the beginning of something good. Finally.
 
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Thomas,

I'm not really interested in your opinion of me personally. :D You don't really matter.

:D


Honestly I was pleasantly surprised by this episode. You come across as a sensible, intelligent grownup when you're on the show Walter. So I’m perplexed that you frequently comport yourself like a juvenile delinquent here in the forums. I’d like to see more posts from the guy who appeared on this show. And it was wonderful to hear Alejandro Rojas talk about his work on this story - he seems to see this very clearly, and it's cool that he's actually talked to Luis Elizondo about a speaking engagement (hint hint, Gene).

It’s certainly within the realm of possibility that Luis Elizondo is either a witting or unwitting accomplice in some kind of Pentagon operation, which was the central theme of this episode.

But it strikes me as a completely hypothetical proposition, like “reality could be the hallucinatory dream of a hyperdimensional gadfly” or something. I can’t prove that it’s not. But I can see no indication that it is, either. So it strikes me as idle speculation, and somewhat wicked idle speculation at that. I mean, my neighbor could be a Kremlin spy, but I don’t go around talking to people: “you know, Claude could be a Kremlin spy – have you ever considered that? I mean, what he could be up to in there, talking on the phone at all hours of the day, and walking around in his apartment late at night. What if he’s planning something terrible in there? By the time we figure it out, it could be too late!” Y’know what I mean? Sowing suspicion is a kinda rotten thing to do, without a wisp of evidence to support an argument. Sure, he worked in intelligence (and maybe he still does…shhh…). But crikee, lots of people work in intelligence, but what percentage of them are actively engaged in conducting PsyOps against the American people? Less than 5%, maybe? Less than 1%? Probably closer to the latter than the former.

And what exactly would they hope to accomplish with this? They don’t need any help raising the defense budget – Congress has already voluntarily doubled the annual budget increase that the DoD asked for. And they just voted in favor of the Orwellian surveillance state again. Threat of alien invasion not required here.

So what’s left? Some elaborate plot to make the media take this subject seriously for the first time in half a century, just to then blow it up in our faces to make us all look like fools? What would that accomplish? The media was already mocking us before this story broke – it would be hard to induce an even lower journalistic standard with regard to this subject, than we've already been subjected to for decades.

With those options out of the way, all I can see are agendas that I actually support, like some kind of gradual confirmation/disclosure, and/or slowly leaking out some kind of revolutionary technology from secret programs. I seriously doubt that the DoD would get behind either of those objectives, but they have my full support if that’s their diabolical plan.

But frankly everything seems to point to a far simpler, even mundane explanation: this is exactly what it appears to be. Luis Elizondo thought that he could make more headway presenting his findings to Gen. Mattis and other key people in government, by going public, with the consent of his former employers. And he wants to help advance public awareness and scientific research into the exotic technologies that he’s seen ample evidence for over his 10 years in the program. That’s his story anyway.

And I believe him. I mean, I’ve seen and heard every interview that he’s done, and every interview that Leslie Kean has done about this, and it all jibes. If they’re lying, then they’ve fooled me completely. And I’m not easy to fool – my BS detector is very sensitive, and it hasn’t even budged during their interviews. If they’re acting, then they deserve Emmys. Golden Globes, even.

In fact it baffles me that anyone can hear these people talk and answer questions, and come away suspicious. All of these people: Luis Elizondo, Leslie Kean, Steve Justice, Hal Puthoff, heck – even Tom DeLonge (as wild and frequently misled that he is), all seem completely sincere about what they’re doing. They believe that this phenomenon is real and alien to our civilization, and they want to get the story out in a powerful and compelling manner (which they’ve already accomplished - and more is coming, I’m sure of that), and this new TTSA organization also has high hopes (if extremely optimistic hopes) of figuring out how these things fly, and one day experimenting with it.

It’s like the saying goes “when you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras.” People looking for conspiracies all the time are out of their effing minds. Give it a rest already. Or at least offer an actual argument with some kind of supporting evidence.

I’m speaking generally here, not attacking Walter – he was very clear that he was just presenting a hypothetical scenario based on his professional experience. But of course, when you’re a carpenter everything looks like a nail, as they say.

I just can’t find a whisper of evidence that this is, in fact, some kind of covert operation. Or even an intelligible hypothesis for the motivation behind such a thing in this case. And I’m kind of fed up with the online conspiracy theorists rushing to be the first in line make something sinister from everything that happens.

I know – we’ve been hurt before. The Billy Meier hoax, the sociopathic “Dr. Jonathan Reed” and his bogus alien in the refrigerator story, Andrew Basiago and his exotic Martian vacations with Obama, the stupid alien mummy slides, MUFON…we’ve loved and lost time and time again, and now we just want to curl up on the couch with Fluffy and dream of the good ole days when it seemed like the truth about UFOs would surely come out in some majestic Presidential press conference. It’s hard to put yourself out there and embrace the latest shiny new hope that promises a happily ever after.

But it’s time to learn to love again. Because this could be the beginning of something good. Finally.
 
Really interesting show.

Especially regarding how 'Perception management' might be at play in some form in the TTSA scenario.

I think people need to remember no matter how clever you are 'individually' you can be mislead if two or more people (not necessarily cleverer than you) cooperate/conspire.

When we are talking about dedicated professional intelligence agencies and agents, the sky is not the limit.

Whilst I am not very familiar with Walter's research, I don't see the idea of a 'breakaway' civilisation as illogical or even unlikely:
I mean how many ordinary citizens lead double or even triple lives? with multiple spouses/families etc. I think it is the same principle on a grander scale.

I understand that some very 'questionable' people were involved at the very highest levels of both NASA and the Russian equivalent etc so the money and materiel could have been 'stolen/diverted'.

I am not sure about Human bases on Mars or even the Moon, but I cannot for one minute believe that space has not been 'weaponised'.

The trouble is that there is just so much 'information' out there, that it is hard to tell the truth from lies.

All I can do is speculate.

I believe that if Mr Elezondo was to come on the show then some very good questions would be asked, and by the sounds of what RPJ said a lot of them would be answered.

Thank you
 
"I am not sure about Human bases on Mars or even the Moon, but I cannot for one minute believe that space has not been 'weaponized'."

Agreed. 'Rods From God' is an interesting concept. Kinetic energy weapons have been in use on main battle tanks for years and the US Navy has been testing rail guns. This would be a logical extension of extant technology that you might reasonably suspect being part of a classified space program.

As for conspiracy - also agreed it's possible but I am not really sure what the purpose might be. In the past actual conspiracies seem to come out in the wash eventually. Seems like mocking and ignoring the phenomenon has been working pretty good so far.
 
But it strikes me as a completely hypothetical proposition, like “reality could be the hallucinatory dream of a hyperdimensional gadfly” or something. I can’t prove that it’s not. But I can see no indication that it is, either. So it strikes me as idle speculation, and somewhat wicked idle speculation at that. I mean, my neighbor could be a Kremlin spy, but I don’t go around talking to people: “you know, Claude could be a Kremlin spy – have you ever considered that? I mean, what he could be up to in there, talking on the phone at all hours of the day, and walking around in his apartment late at night. What if he’s planning something terrible in there? By the time we figure it out, it could be too late!” Y’know what I mean? Sowing suspicion is a kinda rotten thing to do, without a wisp of evidence to support an argument. Sure, he worked in intelligence (and maybe he still does…shhh…). But crikee, lots of people work in intelligence, but what percentage of them are actively engaged in conducting PsyOps against the American people? Less than 5%, maybe? Less than 1%? Probably closer to the latter than the former.

Reminds me of a Nurse i once worked with, lovely lady with a strong russian accent.
So i was blown away when she admitted that she used to be KGB, and would rat on her neighbours for the smallest of things.
I was shocked and said so, i said i cant believe you were KGB. She laughed and said she came from "Everybody KGB".
 
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