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Is the Space Program Dying?


Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
It is now reliably reported that President Obama is going to pretty much gut the space program by severely cutting back on budget increases to NASA.

Obviously there are more important things to spend money, such as $700 hammers and $1,000 toilet bowls. But any hopes and dreams that humans might return to the moon or visit Mars during the lifetimes of many of you is pretty much gone.

Unless private industry or another country moves ahead in this endeavor.

So what say you? Does a petition make sense?
 
Gene recently posted on twitter, "Instead of spending $700 on hammers, the U.S. is cutting back on the space program. This is a tragedy. Write your representatives."

Just before I read that, I was reading a post by Christopher Knowles at The Secret Sun entitled, What the Hell is Going on Up There? It's a pretty good analysis of some recent (and past) events that may explain the shift in direction. It would be interesting to hear what others think.
 
Yes it's dying, if not dead. We've lost our vision as a nation to achieve great things. From what I have seen in the schools, exploration is taught as thing of the past. We're going to have to look to private industry or China or India to keep moving forward.
 
The problem is perception. The average person doesn't see the benefit in determining if a rock on mars conclusively shows if water was present or not. There is no pizzazz in that. Politicians are promoters and performers. They talk in order to get applause. Tell the average American that we can spend 2 billion on bettering the road and bridge infrastructure in his state or build and launch a satellite that will study the temperature inconsistencies on 3 moons orbiting Jupiter. A politician can't get overwhelming applause for the satellite thing in New Orleans. For those of you that have never been to Louisiana, the road thing would get a raucous applause akin to the Saints winning the Super Bowl.
 
Honestly I'm torn on this issue. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing. I've always been a huge fan of NASA, especially NASA in its glory days - the right stuff. But it seems that the vision and the inspiration that was there before is gone. Sure, they still do some pretty incredible stuff, but I'm thinking that maybe at the moment it'd be better if they focused that ingenuity on solving some of the problems here on Earth. Why not focus on energy independence? Maybe space shouldn't be the primary focus for the moment. I'm sure that once new breakthroughs are made, going into space will be a snap.

Just a thought.
 
Honestly I'm torn on this issue. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing. I've always been a huge fan of NASA, especially NASA in its glory days - the right stuff. But it seems that the vision and the inspiration that was there before is gone. Sure, they still do some pretty incredible stuff, but I'm thinking that maybe at the moment it'd be better if they focused that ingenuity on solving some of the problems here on Earth. Why not focus on energy independence? Maybe space shouldn't be the primary focus for the moment. I'm sure that once new breakthroughs are made, going into space will be a snap.

Just a thought.

There can't be any breakthroughs without research and testing new technologies. If we don't put money into it, there is no breakthrough.
 
We're going to have to look to private industry or China or India to keep moving forward.

It looks like a US moon mission is dead for now.

FOXNews.com - Obama to End NASA Constellation Program

This was said just one year ago.

Griffin departs NASA predicting 2015 Chinese Moon mission

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------

Even though manned US space flight seems to be on the back burner for now robotic missions are still taking place. Here is a list of current missions. Earth orbiting satellites appear to be a very important priority.

http://www.nasa.gov/missions/current/

Here is the NASA launch schedule.

http://www.nasa.gov/missions/highlights/schedule.html
 
I don't know if the "space program" is dead so much rather than any future moon missions. Obama left the possibility open of Mars exploration. I don't think anyone has brought up the possibility of us being warned off the moon in the first place, and a possible reminder of that warning recently coming from somewhere. Why the sudden reversal of moon exploration plans, from sending missions to the moon supposedly to find traces of water for a possible moon base, to all the sudden discounting any future mission to the moon? What did NASA find that they didn't like? Is there a new and younger cadre running NASA who may not have been involved with the moon missions of the 60s and 70s and weren't aware of what the astronauts may have encountered, and what NASA then knew about? Is it coincidental that Obama pulled the plug on future moon missions only months after India found traces of water on the moon, and NASA's missile strike on the moon was later a dud? Is it possible that NASA knows why the missile strike failed (even though they claimed it didn't, but is pretty clear it did) and this is what reversed their direction regarding the moon?
 
I think the real question to ask is if the United States of America is now dead. I believe this current crop of clowns we "elected" may well have plunged the last dagger into it.
 
Where the fuck is the outcry on this? If this had been Bush there would be a non-stop vomiting of hate-filled attacks on blogs everywhere on how "backwards" and "anti-intellectual" he is blah blah blah ad-infinitum.

When Obama does this sort of shit that sets us in the wrong direction everyone on both sides of the aisle seems to be sort of collectively shrugging their shoulders.. The "financial crisis" excuse to cut funding doesn't hold water because NASA's funding is a gnat on the ass of the military and social programs budgets.

Instead of a supposedly "progressive" policy of enhanced space exploration I think people expected/hoped for, we get more focus on global warming monitoring. Hurray!!!!! My stepfather works at NASA in DC and told me everyone he knows is fuming pissed at Obama and more than a little stunned at the direction he is pushing them in. Space Exploration and general science funding in America should be 10 times what it is. Hundreds of billions could easily be cut from other overbloated/wasteful programs if anyone had the balls to do it.

"Change we can believe in" at its finest.
 
Is the USA Empire crumbling? Don't worry there is other space programs like in China, Europe, Japan and India which can take up the mantle peace. Mind you there is more urgent need to look at in the USA economy and around the World. Starvation and Wars rather space program if their is no threat from E.Ts.

Peace
 
I don't want to highjack this thread, but does anyone here buy the argument that we did not go to the moon due to the radiation levels once you get beyond the Van Allen Belts? I was originally highly skeptical, but I do remain puzzled by the fact that:

(i) the moon photos fail to show a blast crater of any type underneath the lunar landing modules,
(ii), there are shadows that run different directions on the surface of the moon despite the fact that the only source of light was supposedly the sun, which should only create parallel shadows,
(iii) that astronauts present on the 'dark side' of the lunar modules are well lit (by artificial light in some studio here on earth, thus allowing photos to be taken) despite the fact that they do not fall within direct sunlight (other videos do show the absence of light and thus the figures are extremely dark),
(iv) the few photos of the lunar modules' landing gear/pads show no dust accumulation on top of them whatsoever, despite the landing and astronauts running around to kick up dust,
(v) there are objects which are photographed on the moon which are superimposed on top of the 'cross hairs' that were built into the lens or cover of the cameras employed (the cross hairs logically would fall on top of anything that was photographed external to the camera),
(vi) you can hear the astronauts talk without any background noise during the descent/landing of the module on the moon, despite sitting right on top of a presumably loud engine firing away as they attempt to land the module down,
(vii) there are no stars in the sky in any of the photos, nor generally are there the camera cross hairs mentioned above; and,
(viii) there are issues surrounding the photos of earth that were presented to the public as being taken from lunar orbit.

Some even argue that we did in fact go to the moon, but given what we expected to see up there (and did see), the photographs were doctored beforehand to present to the public . . . and the Russians.

Granted, a photography expert may be able to address some of these points, but others remain unexplained (e.g., the absence of noise during the landing, the absence of a landing crater).

If radiation does in fact prevent safe human space travel (this is a fact which should be able to be readily verified but I have never seen it), is all this talk of a trip to Mars indeed nonsense? The answers to the questions above I have heard from NASA are fairly weak.
 
It is now reliably reported that President Obama is going to pretty much gut the space program by severely cutting back on budget increases to NASA.

Obviously there are more important things to spend money, such as $700 hammers and $1,000 toilet bowls. But any hopes and dreams that humans might return to the moon or visit Mars during the lifetimes of many of you is pretty much gone.

Unless private industry or another country moves ahead in this endeavor.

So what say you? Does a petition make sense?

Try anything you can do.

If some of the money that is thrown at the arms industry was channelled into space exploration there'd be plenty.

And on that subject...if the Chinese carry through with their stated intention to land men on the moon, which they may well follow up with a permanent presence if it's successful, can the US and its allies really afford to cede them the ultimate high ground? Seems daft to me.
 
If some of the money that is thrown at the arms industry was channelled into space exploration there'd be plenty.

True, true.

Or, some of the $42 billion (as of 2007, up from $17.5 billion in 2000) in foreign aid doled out (attached) could be diverted to NASA. Admirably though, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and Ireland (where we have forum members, that I know of) are all not on that list, feeding off of us. Thanks guys!

The military budget for 2010 is around $685 billion (at last take).

<table id="sortable_table_id_0" class="wikitable sortable"><tbody><tr><td>Components </td> <td>Funding </td> <td>Change, 2009 to 2010 </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Operations and maintenance</td> <td>$283.3 billion</td> <td>+4.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Military Personnel</td> <td>$154.2 billion</td> <td>+5.0%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Procurement</td> <td>$140.1 billion</td> <td>-1.8%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation</td> <td>$79.1 billion</td> <td>+1.3%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Military Construction</td> <td>$23.9 billion</td> <td>+19.0%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Family Housing</td> <td>$3.1 billion</td> <td>-20.2%</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Total Spending</td> <td>$685.1 billion</td> <td>+3.0%</td></tr></tbody></table>

NASA was asking for $18.7 billion in its budget request for 2010. (attached)

But from this article

CBC News - Technology Science - Obama to cut NASA's moon plan: officials

it appears that NASA is getting $5.9 billion MORE than asked for, but not for returning to the moon. Confusing. The $5.9 billion will be given to commercial enterprises to build a commercial space ship. Hmm.

So, to the moon by 2020 by the U.S. Government (NASA) is dead, but apparently tell Exxon/Mobil there is oil on that thar moon, and give them a few billion, and see what happens, right? Or am I reading this wrong?
And, the article says that exploration is not dead.

I guess we will have to wait to see how this shakes out.
 

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News like this is heart breaking
NASA Won't Get Money for Moon Mission -- Politics Daily
I guess instead of advancing the human race we should just worry about shooting our neighbours...we have wars to fund after all.

I think it would be a magnificent day when we could say we colonised the moon...its such a shame i wont see it in my life time!
the Australian government is hardly on its way to achieving such goals...but the good news is Kevin Rudd just wrote a childrens book....Money well spent!

A quote by Bill Hicks which i always liked!

"I'm gonna share with you a vision that I had, cause I love you. And you feel it. You know all that money we spend on nuclear weapons and defense each year, trillions of dollars, correct? Instead -- just play with this -- if we spent that money feeding and clothing the poor of the world -- and it would pay for it many times over, not one human being excluded -- we can explore space together, both inner and outer, forever in peace. Thank you very much. You've been great, I hope you enjoyed it."
 
Hi folks,

I wonder what Mr Gene Steinberg and Mr David Biedny think about the NASA funding of space exploration delima? Mind you it might be a good idea that the private sector takes over the Space explorations rather governmental. The private sector has more freedom in wage bills control than government don't you think?

Peace,
blowfish
 
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