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I'm not sure why I'm posting this



Astron

Paranormal Novice
Please bear with me, it's a long story!

I met one of my closest friends, “Rhonda,” in 1981. We instantly became friends and have been like a brother and sister ever since. I’m 51 now and she’s 46. Early in our friendship she told me about several odd events she experienced, especially about a road trip to visit her grandmother in upstate <st1:state w:st="on"><st1>New York</st1></st1:state> with her sister and mother that involved a UFO and missing time. It’s kind of a classic encounter so I won’t bore you with details.

Anyway, there are lots of incidents – including one in which a creature in her bedroom one night told her she was pregnant with a boy – that tell me she’s probably been an abductee. There are dozens of other incidents I could talk about as well.
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Both of her children, now 18 and 21, have also experienced strange events. I remember her18-year-old son, “Doug,” when he was young, talked about the little “doctors” in his room. He also has been terrified of a red glowing “spider” that sometimes visited at night and even to this day harbors a case of arachnophobia. In another odd story, “Erin,” the daughter, insisted that she sometimes saw “flying logs” in her room at night.
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This part is important: Neither Rhonda (until recently) nor her kids have ever read any of the books by Whitley Streiber or Bud Hopkins or any other UFO researcher. I talked with Rhonda over the years and suggested she read some of them but she regularly refused. It’s only been recently (maybe the last three years or so) that she relented.
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Here’s where it gets odd from my perspective.
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What really has gotten under my skin lately is my apparent involvement, but I don’t know if I am involved either. It could be coincidental or maybe I am just imagining things. In any case, I first have to backtrack and explain some things that happened to me, independent of Rhonda’s experiences.

My consciously remembered earlier life experiences do include waking up to find strange marks on my body, finding twigs and leaves in my bed, as well as an incident involving momentary paralysis. Another memory is of the most terrifying childhood "dream" I've ever had. I've had other odd experiences but this post is already too long! :)
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Well, here’s where it gets a little weird, although to anyone else but you all of these experiences would have been weird anyway!
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Up until I was about 16 or 17, I had a recurring dream that was quite vivid but doesn’t at all seem to relate to my other experiences, so maybe this is a waste of time to mention it. I apparently was a Native American and was being chased, along with another person, by members of my own tribe. It was dusk and my friend in the dream and I escaped via a canoe on a very distinctive lake. We frantically paddled out into the lake but arrows started flying all around us. I was struck in the chest and fell overboard and (presumably) drowned.
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The dreams stopped around the time I reached High School, and although I can’t quite remember if they are related, I think I had an unusually bad nighttime nosebleed around the same time. Also at about the same time, my parents and I moved across town to a new house. After this, I had a persistent feeling that I was “lost” somehow. I’ve never consciously remembered any other strange events since that time in my life, except for the one paralysis moment. Although about 6 or 7 years ago I did see one of those black triangles slowly moving directly above me while walking my dog one evening. I tend to think those may be US military experimental aircraft though.
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Getting back to Rhonda, it was a few years after we met, maybe around 1985 or so, when I casually mentioned my recurring childhood dream about the lake. It turned out she had exactly the same dream as I did as far as we could determine. We went over and over details and concluded that it really appeared to have been the same dream. I now feel that it was her in the canoe with me and she thinks it was me in the canoe with her as well. I don’t know what that means, but it certainly is a strange thing.
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Over the years as they grew up I became quite close to Rhonda’s kids and they sometimes jokingly refer to me as “Uncle.” Rhonda recently divorced her husband “Tony” and she is now living just with her daughter, the son having moved away to college.
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Here’s where I am going out on a limb and I have never even mentioned this to Rhonda or anyone else. Lest you think I’m harboring some intimate feelings for Rhonda let me tell you I’m a happily well-adjusted gay man. I was in an 18-year relationship with a great guy and can probably describe myself as a perfect “6” on the Kinsey scale! What’s nagging at me is that I sometimes feel that Rhonda’s ex-husband is not actually the father of her children and that I am somehow, and that it’s somehow connected to our earlier strange experiences. Trust me, Rhonda and I have never, ever had sex and I think it’s creepy to even harbor that thought since as I said I feel like she’s more of a sister than anything else. Besides, I have absolutely no sexual attraction to women anyway. And Rhonda is pretty shy about discussing sex and sometimes I can get her going when I joke about it even though she’s a pretty funny person in general.
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What creeped me out is that she has let it slip, maybe only kiddingly though, that she and Tony “didn’t have sex” when she conceived both kids. She jokes that it was an immaculate conception. But there was something a bit nervous about her when she talked about that.
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I can’t help with the suspicion that something’s not quite right in all of this. Tony, her ex, is of a completely different personality than her children, and few people we all know think there is even a resemblance of the kids to him. When we go someplace all together most people assume I am the father since there is a strong resemblance of them to me. And it’s something that I never until recently even began to suspect. I suppose a DNA test would put these ideas to rest but I’m not about to cross that line since I don’t want to even let on that I am thinking these things. And I know that it is not unusual for children to not resemble one of the parents.
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I’ve tried to analyze my own feelings and I can’t understand why I would think this. Being gay does not necessarily mean you don’t want to have kids, but I truly never wanted to have children and I’m not a paternal sort of guy. So I’m pretty damn sure I’m not fantasizing about wanting them to be my “family.” Neither one of the two kids have a strong attachment to their father and on separate occasions each once mentioned to me that they wished I was their dad instead. Even that made me a little uncomfortable, even though they are great people and if I did have kids I’d be happy if they were like them.
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What makes me more than a little nervous is writing about this, especially in a public forum. I wouldn’t want her to know that I even harbored such ideas about her family. And it doesn’t even make sense! I mean, I do feel a bit silly about all of this. Why would aliens (and I’m not sure I really have ever been abducted at all) even want to have my DNA crossed with hers? What’s the point of doing that between humans if there is some sort of hybrid program going on as some people have suggested?
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This probably sounds really crazy but I just wanted to get this off my chest so take it for what it’s worth. I hate to be evasive but I've changed names and I hope this forum is just obscure enough that most people would never know who I am.
 

skunkape

Paranormal Maven
Astron's got girl-cooties! Astron's got girl-cooties! Best I can tell you is "weird stuff happens...an explanation will likely be ever-elusive.' I'm sure that doesn't help much. Get a DNA test. That would pretty much settle it. You could be sneaky and do it without anyone else knowing. Get a hair from one of the kids and have it compared it to yours. There are worse things than finding out you had sex with a chick. I wish 99% of guys were gay...the market value of my hetero-tendencies would soar.
 

mikec

Skilled Investigator
Wow - Your story has SO many details that make me think that this paranormal stuff is even stranger than we dare assume.

Your story has a lot of interesting details. The dreams, the nagging hunches - etc.


Don't worry about what you write, I recognize you are searching and questioning. I appreciate your story.

Thanks for the excellent insights.

Some questions:
=============

1) Both of you have events that infer some sort of "contact" (abduction?) experience. As do her children. THis is VERY significant.

2) The distinctive lake in the dream. This would be interesting to pursue. Could you draw this lake? And, more importantly, could Ronda draw it too, but independently?

3) Is the dream litteraly true? Like a memory from a previous life? If so, we could assume you were the dying indian, and she was your friend. Was the friend in the dream a woman?

4) Is it better to treat the Indian canoe dream as a metaphor, rather than the literal truth. If so, what is the implication?

5) All your anxiety and confusion surrounding the issue of the two kids is understandable. Maybe it is all just random coincidence, but your strong emotional anxiety seems to indicate that maybe there is something to this after all.

6) More importantly. You speak of other experiences (that you think will be too long) that you haven't shared. Please, I encourage you to write a follow up posting. The little details are the ones that seem to me to be the MOST fascinating. Please - I'm very curious.
 

Gareth

Nothin' to see here
Fascinating story - especially the shared dream experience.

As far as determining if youre the father, as strange an idea as it may be, why not just go for it and get a dna test? It would at least put the idea to bed one way or the other. And if it turns out you are related then boy have you got a story on your hands!

Like skunkape said you could absolutely do it without anyone else knowing. Grab a hair.
 
D

Dolphtesla

Guest
Woah! I read that whole thing and I gotta say, that is all very strange and interesting! Imagine if you got the DNA test secretly and were the father! I know it's not what you want, but WOW! What a revelation!

Also, I think the floating logs in the bedroom phenomenon bares resemblance to Jeff Ritzmman's floating box accounts. You ought to check out the podcasts with Jeff and see if any other details match up.

I am glad you got all that off your chest! This is definitely the place for it! Thanks for the story.
 

mikec

Skilled Investigator
About the DNA test.

That would be extremely difficult to do without their permission. It would simply "feel" strange and invasive in a way that would be hard to defend after the fact.

The better tact, I think, would be to ask Ronda. If she is really as close a friend as you say, she will understand. I can read your words and recognize your anxiety. It seems real. You are questioning yourself in a way that will seem genuine. She will recognize that. If she really IS a close friend, she'll respond well. And - She may be harboring similar thoughts.

If she says it was immaculate conception, and ALL four of you seem to have strange experiences that point to "abduction" there is a very real reason to want to pursue the DNA test.

Ethically, you should ask her, and then her kids. And, I know that it may never happen, but it would feel weird to sneak around issues involving friends.

It all sounds complex and worrisome. But, please try and move forward on this. It seems important.

Good luck.
 

Gareth

Nothin' to see here
I dont know Mike.... I think if you have pure motivations for doing it, considering the sensitivity of the issue I would have no concerns about doing such a thing 'secretly'. I recently had to go through a dna testing scenario myself with my Dad, and its such a simple procedure. You go do a doctor and they swab the inside of your mouth, and you get a result a few weeks later.

It might be the only way to get closure on the matter if Rhonda ends up not being open to the idea. I sure wouldnt want to do it AFTER approaching Rhonda and getting a negative response.

imho
 

Ally

Skilled Investigator
What an interesting dilemma you have. I would try to bring it up casually to your friend, maybe not the entire DNA testing part but just more like a what if......and see how she reacts.

If you do happen to find out that these are biologically your kids what kind of damage could this do to the relationship to the "father" of these kids. Do you think the father would believe that you and your friend never had sex but the two kids were a result of an abduction?

Let us know what you decide to do if anything.
 

Kieran

Paranormal Adept
Woah! I read that whole thing and I gotta say, that is all very strange and interesting! Imagine if you got the DNA test secretly and were the father! I know it's not what you want, but WOW! What a revelation!

Also, I think the floating logs in the bedroom phenomenon bares resemblance to Jeff Ritzmman's floating box accounts. You ought to check out the podcasts with Jeff and see if any other details match up.

I am glad you got all that off your chest! This is definitely the place for it! Thanks for the story.

Jeff Ritzmman's floating box accounts interesting has he spoken about that anywhere? I am very interested.

I posted three of my encounters on the forums when i joined. One was an encounter with a Black Box or a Box with Squares, strange as that sounds to anyone reading this post.


edit he discussed on the parcast what episode and year?
 

Bixyboo

Skilled Investigator
Fascinating story, Astron! Thanks for sharing it with us.

A couple things I might do: If I was good enough friends with her, I'd actually bring these thoughts up to her! She MIGHT even wiillingly go through with the DNA testing!

Otherwise: Maybe you could get a hair and do it that way? Not sure if that would work, though.
 

mikec

Skilled Investigator
I did a little math. You (Astron) were 24 years old when you met Ronda in 1981, and she was 19.

QUESTIONS:
==========

1) Any significant events around this time you met in 1981?

2) Any curious events involved in the WAY you two met?

3) Her children were born in (approx.) 1987 and 1990. Any significant (or curious) events around this time?


Once again, I understand your very real anxiety surrounding the question of a DNA test and all of it's implications. Be aware, that the answer (if it IS what you THINK it might be) would have implications that could turn your life upside-down. And, at the same time, it could come up as something that would be a huge relief. No good answers here. Proceed with an open mind, and sensitivity to everyone involved.

I'll add that after re-reading your posting. I would HAVE to suspect that Ronda would be dealing with the very SAME nagging questions as you are. A woman that makes passing comments about "immaculate conception" simply MUST have questioned this issue herself. So, bringing up this sensitive issue with her may go really well, better than you think. Once again, good luck.
 
I wish 99% of guys were gay...the market value of my hetero-tendencies would soar.

I've got my human history cap on today - Romans, Etruscans, Ancient Greeks and Tsarist Russia , put in a bit of anthropology with a bit of darwinism high labido Rhesus Monkeys and maybe society in a sexual context is not as certain as you may subscribe?

Do I break our current religo-centric cultural taboo, as we understand it?

p.s. I'm not sure why I'm posting this either.
 

skunkape

Paranormal Maven
I've got my human history cap on today - Romans, Etruscans, Ancient Greeks and Tsarist Russia , put in a bit of anthropology with a bit of darwinism high labido Rhesus Monkeys and maybe society in a sexual context is not as certain as you may subscribe?

Do I break our current religo-centric cultural taboo, as we understand it?

p.s. I'm not sure why I'm posting this either.

I was just being a wise ass there...I've been more or less monogamous and hetero since about '92 or so...Doesn't make me feel special. You know earthworms are all hermaphrodites, female hyenas pack a preaching tool, and dolphins sometimes have big gay orgies? It's all pink inside. Have at 'em as you find fit.
 

Astron

Paranormal Novice
Thanks everyone for your advice! I am thinking over a few things and trying to remember some other events. I don't have time right now to post anything since I am going to a dinner party tonight, but will try and come back to this in a day or two.
 

AnnetteMarie

Skilled Investigator
I think the dream points to reincarnation, I have a fairly strong belief in that, myself, and my belief is based on personal memories and happenings, so maybe the canoe is actually a canoe and not a metaphor for anything.
Shared dreams of past lives is not unheard of, so that is worth checking into.
You might try visiting a decent palm reader, someone local - NOT a 1-800 and fax your palm print in or suchlike!
As for checking the DNA, it is easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission.
In any case, your story sounds pretty darn interesting and I hope you find some answers.
 

Astron

Paranormal Novice
Some questions:
=============

2) The distinctive lake in the dream. This would be interesting to pursue. Could you draw this lake? And, more importantly, could Ronda draw it too, but independently?

One of the strange things about this experience is that I came across this lake (in northern Minnesota) when I was in junior high school, around 1973 or so, when a group I was with attended a small gathering that happened to be held on the shores of this lake. (and what was that coincidence about??) Thinking about this now, it may be that the dreams ended about the same time after I saw this lake in reality. I mentioned in the first post that the dreams disappeared when my family moved away from the house I grew up in at about that time. But looking back, this was at just about the same time that I discovered the location of this lake. I don't know if there is a connection, but it's a bit strange.

Regarding this lake, I recognized it immediately, and it was a very odd feeling when I saw it. It's very distinctive because of its shape. There are two weird 90-degree "corners" of the lake that are lined with conifers. It's very geometric - almost man-made in feeling, and something I've never, ever, seen before in Minnesota. That is the predominant characteristic that I remembered from my "dreams." I've never mentioned this to Rhonda. I have talked with her about doing a road trip to this lake just to see if she feels a familiarity about it as well. (It's about 2 1/2 hours north of the Twin Cities) It happens to be a private lake, so it will be a bit of a challenge to get access to it again after so many years. But I'd still like to try.

3) Is the dream litteraly true? Like a memory from a previous life? If so, we could assume you were the dying indian, and she was your friend. Was the friend in the dream a woman?

Yes, I had the distinct impression that the person in the canoe was a woman. And, after so many years, I have the impression that it was Rhonda in the canoe with me. But again, I don't know what that means.

4) Is it better to treat the Indian canoe dream as a metaphor, rather than the literal truth. If so, what is the implication?

I lately thought of it as a recollection of a previous existence rather than a metaphor. However, I've never really thought of this as a metaphor until you just mentioned it. That brings up a whole other set of issues if true.

5) All your anxiety and confusion surrounding the issue of the two kids is understandable. Maybe it is all just random coincidence, but your strong emotional anxiety seems to indicate that maybe there is something to this after all.

I just don't know. It's true I have some anxiety over this, but maybe it's mostly to do with our cultural norms. To be perfectly honest, I am weirded out by the implications. I don't know what "the truth" means when it comes to stuff like this. In any case, I appreciate any input that anyone has to offer.

Listen, I know this whole thing sounds very strange. And it is not in my nature to make extraordinary claims.

6) More importantly. You speak of other experiences (that you think will be too long) that you haven't shared. Please, I encourage you to write a follow up posting. The little details are the ones that seem to me to be the MOST fascinating. Please - I'm very curious.

There are a lot of experiences. For example - and I doubt this has anything to do with the story at hand, but what the hell - I woke up one morning (I was I think 14 years old at the time) with a pattern of four red dots at the exact center of my chest, just below the breastbone. To this day, I don't like to be touched there.

It was a perfect square (I remember actually measuring the dimensions, being about 7/8ths of an inch square). The dots looked like puncture marks, but did not itch whatsoever. They persisted for about a month. I showed them to my gym teacher and he thought it was just some spider bites. But that explanation didn't make any sense to me at the time. (Why the hell would a spider walk around the center of my chest in a perfect square and bite me 4 times without me waking up and noticing the pain?) The marks eventually faded after a couple of weeks.

About a month later, the same pattern appeared on my inside right forearm. Same size and same dimensions: a perfect square, about 7/8ths of an inch on a side. Again, there was no itching, which would have made it explainable since this was Minnesota and their famous mosquitoes might have had something to do with it :).

I'll check in again tomorrow.
 

0uterj0in

Reality Support Tech
she told me about several odd events she experienced, especially about a road trip to visit her grandmother in upstate <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:STATE w:st="on"><ST1>New York</ST1></ST1:STATE> with her sister and mother that involved a UFO and missing time. It’s kind of a classic encounter so I won’t bore you with details.

Give us a try.
 

Astron

Paranormal Novice
Give us a try.

Thanks for your patience. I've been traveling for about 6 weeks so this is the first chance I've had to update this thread.

Rhonda and her sister "Megan" were passengers in a car driven by their mother, driving from Minnesota to upstate New York to visit Rhonda's grandmother. I don't have a lot of details about this event, although Rhonda could probably supply a lot more. All I know is that Rhonda told me that the three of them were a couple of hours away from their destination when Rhonda's mother saw a very bright light in the sky above the car. Panicking, Rhonda's mother told the girls to hide down at the foot of the seats (which, just now thinking about this, I wonder why she gave such specific instructions to her daughters. Did she experience something like this before? But maybe it was just an instinctual reaction to protect her daughters). It turned out that when they arrived at their destination, the grandmother had already called the police, because Rhonda, Megan and their mother were at least two hours late.

Sorry that this incident doesn't bear much fruit. Sure, it's a classic case of missing time but I don't think there is anything about the story that advances any knowledge about the phenomena. Maybe if Rhonda and Megan were regressed there might turn up some additional details. But who knows? To this day, Megan refuses to acknowledge that the incident even occurred, even though both Rhonda and her mother insisted it happened. And actually, Rhonda's mother has been increasingly reluctant to talk about this incident as well. Not sure why.

All I know is that there is something odd happening with this family. And I feel that I am a peripheral part of it. But I can't be sure.

I'll come clean: I was very interested in the UFO phenomenon since I was a child. That of itself would be enough for some to say that I am nothing but a wannabe. Someone who is seeking recognition or validation through the UFO experience. But I'll tell you, I'd rather not be publicly identified in any way with this. That's why I have been hesitant about giving out any details that might identify myself or Rhonda, apart from admitting that we live in Minnesota. And I am also simultaneously terrified of it.
 

0uterj0in

Reality Support Tech
I don't think there is anything about the story that advances any knowledge about the phenomena.

Understood, but you never know who you might impact with your story. Also, we can hope that the great mass of data points will eventually yield something meaningful in the aggregate. From that perspective, sharing is never a waste of time.

I was very interested in the UFO phenomenon since I was a child. That of itself would be enough for some to say that I am nothing but a wannabe.

This doesn't hurt your credibility in my view. I respect your need for discretion in this matter, and appreciate your honesty.
 

Poi

Skilled Investigator
With all the angst created, I think step one is just talking to Rhonda first. Try to find out if you were projecting your anxiety on her or if she really feels something awkward about the parent of her children, whomever that may be.

Get her talking first if you can. It's kind of like talking to children regarding topics that are outside their scope of understanding fully where you only answer questions that are asked. Rhonda may be waiting for you to start the conversation in some way too. Who knows?

But I wouldn't discount your projecting angst on her in this area. We do that all the time. Own your own angst in other words and just see where it takes you.
 
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