1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY A PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+! For a low subscription fee, you will receive access to an ad-free version of The Paracast, the exclusive After The Paracast podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, plus show transcripts, the new Paracast+ Video Channel, Classic Episodes and Special Features categories! We now offer lifetime memberships! You can subscribe via this direct link:
    https://www.theparacast.com/introducing-the-paracast/

    The Official Paracast Store is back! Check out our latest lineup of customized stuff at: The Official Paracast Store!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!
    Dismiss Notice

February 4, 2018 — Erich von Däniken and David Halperin

Discussion in 'Talk About the Show' started by Gene Steinberg, Feb 4, 2018.



  1. Gene Steinberg

    Gene Steinberg Forum Super Hero Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    12,760
    Likes Received:
    5,124
    Occupation:
    Forum Super Hero
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Home Page:
    Unexpectedly, I had the opportunity to book von Däniken on The Paracast, though not for the entire episode. But I don't think he expected to hear his theories quietly disassembled by Biblical scholar David Halperin, once a member of the teen Ufology movement back in the 1960s.

    So fascinating that I was joined by Greg Bishop and J. Randall Murphy in discussing it further on this weekend's episode of After The Paracast, an exclusive feature of The Paracast+.

    For more information on our premium subscription service, please check:

    Introducing The Paracast+ | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio
     
  2. Existential

    Existential Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2016
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    84
    Location:
    Australia
    That writing as careless as von Däniken's, whose principal thesis is that our ancestors were dummies, should be so popular is a sober commentary on the credulousness and despair of our times. I also hope for the continuing popularity of books like Chariots of the Gods? in high school and college logic courses, as object lessons in sloppy thinking. I know of no recent books so riddled with logical and factual errors as the works of von Däniken.

    — Carl Sagan, Foreword to The Space Gods Revealed
     
  3. kanakaris

    kanakaris Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    386
    Despite his 'logical and factual errors' , von Däniken has a point on the origins of the ancient 'gods'.
     
  4. kanakaris

    kanakaris Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    386
    As a Belgian i am offended to hear Eric Ouelett's so called explanation on the Belgian Ufo wave.
    I saw one myself during a second wave during the 90's.
    And then there was the most ridiculous 'explanation' for the Barney Hill case i have ever heard .
    Otherwise , this was an excellent episode.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
  5. wwkirk

    wwkirk Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    794
    Likes Received:
    512
    It was a delight to hear the "high priest" of the ancient astronaut theory on the Paracast.

    As for Halperin, while he did a good job debating with von Daniken, his own point of view struck me as outlandish. His symbolic interpretations of UFOs and abduction were no more plausible than ancient astronauts.
     
    pigfarmer and kanakaris like this.
  6. S.R.L.

    S.R.L. Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,765
    Likes Received:
    1,152
    Occupation:
    Facilatator of Peace & Tranquility
    Location:
    Betwixed The USA & Gulag
    Although Erich says, his musings are guesswork, does anyone think Erich believes in what he writes, or, realizes he can earn a living by passing science fiction as fact?
     
  7. kanakaris

    kanakaris Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    386
    You mean like Whitley Strieber ?
     
  8. S.R.L.

    S.R.L. Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,765
    Likes Received:
    1,152
    Occupation:
    Facilatator of Peace & Tranquility
    Location:
    Betwixed The USA & Gulag
    If I were only a mind reader. Although, at one time I read that Whitley's wife had said something to the effect of Whitley making some of the stuff up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
    kanakaris and Existential like this.
  9. Greers Meeting Planner

    Greers Meeting Planner Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    330
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Chris can cancel his San Louis valley project and Bigelow can give back his 24 million because we now know what causes UFO's and its, er .... mental projection (WTF?)

    Apparently those Cops in Belgium were chasing round after their minds projection of (cough) a dimming Soviet power that was er surrounded by NATO (serious face now everyone).

    Strangely enough the mental projection of this change in world events stopped over a body of water and projected a beam of light into it.

    Makes sense. Not.

    Ninja please
     
    TDSR and Ron Away like this.
  10. Greers Meeting Planner

    Greers Meeting Planner Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    330
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    On the ancient astronaut theory I appreciate it takes confirmation bias to buy into it as you have to ignore those aspects that don't line up to the theory.

    I think what Eric is trying to get at, is that all the existing theories on the ancient texts need confirmation bias to be believed.

    If you believe its the real God being witnessed you have to ignore those bits that make no sense, e.g. the real God leaving a tree of knowledge and a mischeavous talking snake in the garden of Eden. Thats not the actions of an all wise entity

    If you believe it's all imagination emerging from the culture at the time, then you have to overlook the similarity between ancient texts from very different cultures and times.

    I'm not advocating the astronaut theory but the fact that it has proponents and does land some good punches is a sign that the other hypothesis have not done a good enough job of explaining what we are reading
     
    Ron Away likes this.
  11. Existential

    Existential Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2016
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    84
    Location:
    Australia
    He’s a fraud. And I’m sure he knows it.
    I can’t blame Gene for having him on the show as he is a high profile name, but he has zero credibility, his thesis’ have been debunked and made a mockery by intelligent people for decades.
     
    Ron Away likes this.
  12. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    239
    Location:
    New York
    I just looked him up on a couple of 'celebrity net worth' sites. $30 million. He doesn't need to believe that nonsense - too many people already do.
     
  13. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    239
    Location:
    New York
    You're not kidding. I give Erich extra credit for being more personable while shoveling crapola.
     
  14. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    239
    Location:
    New York
    I was reminded of post-WW2 cargo cults. What he's saying isn't necessarily unbelievable but has been cherry picked and isn't in context.

    I'd like to give our ancestors greater credit for their understanding of astronomy and geographic mobility.
     
  15. S.R.L.

    S.R.L. Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,765
    Likes Received:
    1,152
    Occupation:
    Facilatator of Peace & Tranquility
    Location:
    Betwixed The USA & Gulag
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  16. TDSR

    TDSR Paranormal Maven

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    23
    Occupation:
    Geoscientist/Geologist
    Location:
    AUSTIN


    One thing I think that is being overlooked in terms of the context of the ancient text and any connection to modern experience, ET or otherwise.....is Literacy.

    Less than 15 percent of people could read in the 15th century and less than 10 percent of males could read during the Roman period. If we are looking at stories written during a time when the audience was extremely small, what role did that dynamic play in the crafting of these stories? Were the stories embellished during the time when they were passed down as a verbal history? This seems more likely than the modern reader "misinterpreting" the text.

    Erich has developed a narrative that is deeply satisfying to the modern reader when they consider the mystery of the text through the paradigm of a technologically advanced period of human existence. That was not the case when the stories were written, without technology providing a context to the phenomena in the stories the details become more literal and relevant. If your writing could only be read by few other literate people there would not be, in my opinion, a demand for "fiction" writing, rather quite the opposite.

    That being said I am a "nuts and bolts" guy, which for me means Erichs theories are as credible as the "mental projection" theory. I have been in near death situations and my senses were heightened, details were sharper, and my memory much better than during the routine driven experiences and I have never seen any visions, projections, or had a collective cultural upwelling manifest itself. If I had to pick a side...I'm with Erich.

    TDSR
     
  17. Chuckleberryfinn

    Chuckleberryfinn Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    100
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Once again, sound advice from the wise old sage, Mr. Sagan. Why oh why didn't I listen to him when I was younger? Probably the whole of Ufology is as true as Von Daniken's book. I know of no single case anymore that is not riddled with dismissible pseudo-evidence.
     
  18. David Halperin

    David Halperin Paranormal Novice

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    I've just posted to my blog some of my thoughts on my conversation with Erich von Daniken: "Chariots of the Gods?" – Erich von Däniken and the Book of Enoch. Although I think von Daniken is wrong, I wouldn't judge him as negatively as some of the comments in this thread do. Where he's mistaken, he seems to me honestly mistaken. I've found many places in "Chariots of the Gods?" where I think he's misinterpreted his sources, none where he's invented them or deliberately distorted them.
    Two questions for "kanakaris":
    (1) You speak of being "offended" by Eric Ouellet's interpretation of the 1989-90 Belgian sightings, as symbolic representations of the transformations taking place in Central and Eastern Europe after the fall of the Berlin Wall, projected into the sky. In what way do you find this idea offensive? "Speculative," yes; "unconvincing"--I can understand that. But why "offensive"?
    (2) You find my understanding of Barney Hill's abduction experience highly implausible. My suggestion was that he was re-living his ancestral trauma of being abducted in the middle of the night and taken onto an alien craft (the slave ship); hence the abject terror he experienced in the psychiatrist's office as the memories surfaced. Can you be clearer as to what you find implausible about this?
     
    technomage and USI Calgary like this.
  19. kanakaris

    kanakaris Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    386
    (1)Offensive , because you imply that the witnesses were lying.
    (2)Is it possible that Barney Hill simply was telling the truth ?Is this a possibility for you ?
     
  20. David Halperin

    David Halperin Paranormal Novice

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    "Kanakaris," thank you for giving me the opportunity to clear up what seems to be a misunderstanding of my views.
    (1) Neither Eric Ouellet nor I intended any implication the witnesses were lying. On the contrary: it's precisely because they were telling the truth as they experienced it that their testimony is so important. Testimony--not to machinery flying around in the sky, but to the human capacity for symbolizing our awarenesses and experiencing them in visible form.
    (2) I have absolutely no doubt that Barney Hill was telling the truth as he experienced it. Not even the harshest skeptic has doubted that--even Philip Klass has conceded that Barney had certainly experienced "something," and the memory of whatever that was terrified him so badly the psychiatrist was afraid he was going to throw himself out the window. The question is: what was that "something"?
    When Barney recalls a face that reminds him of "a red-headed Irishman" smiling at him through the UFO's windows (Fuller, "The Interrupted Journey," pp. 86-87), will you say that this is something he actually saw? What would a "red-headed Irishman" be doing on a spaceship? But Barney goes on to explain the meaning of that vision for him: it's related to the tension he experiences as a black man in 1960s America, particularly a black man married to and traveling with a white woman. It's also a clue to what was evoked from within him by a chance stimulus--I think it was probably a light on an observation tower--in the New Hampshire mountains. The UFO was real, but it came from within.
     
Loading...

Share This Page