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Faces in the orb?


musictomyears

Skilled Investigator
If you go to this site, you will find a very large number of ghostly pictures, including orbs. In fact, if you go to the Q2 2006 page, you can download some of mine. My screen name is Tui.

http://www.ghostplace.com/forum/photo_album.asp

Gwops, you say that you "captured the images of ghosts on my mobile phone". So you already know one person who definitely doesn't fake images: Yourself. Is that not enough?
 
H

hopeful skeptic

Guest
I think I can see the 'outline' that could be a face.

This is paraedolia, and is perfectly normal, not a mental or sensory disfunction. The human brain seeks patterns - recognizable ones - in disorder.

Orbs are dust particles indistinguishable to the naked eye, and quite familiar to anyone with considerable photographic experience. Show a good wedding photographer your "orb" photos, and he'll share some of his horror stories with you.
 
H

hopeful skeptic

Guest
I think it would be wrong to say that orbs are just dust particles. To make such general statements is never a smart idea.
It's not a general statement. Paranormal orb believers claimed orb photos were evidence of "spirits." Plenty of skeptics have demonstrated exactly how orbs appear in photographs, thus duplicating the supposed "paranormal" phenomena. Orbs are dust particles illuminated by light. Any good photographer of some experience can do the same thing for you.

I took photos on vacation last year with my father, and three have "orbs" in them. It's dust. Sorry.

I am not very familiar with that phenomenon but I once heard on a podcast of 'That's Weird' on NetTalk UK the host speaking about orbs and that some particular orbs were following instructions.
"That's Weird" is a paranormal podcast, and is hardly a font of objective, critical thinking. That said....

1. How would you explain this to me ? Orbs following commands ?
I wasn't there to witness these claims - you weren't, either - so neither of us has any reason to believe a story told to us by someone with an agenda, on a podcast that shares that agenda - particularly when we hear a story making claims about a phenomenon for which there is a completely natural, prosaic explanation.

2. Aren't there too many orbs to say that these are all just dust particles ?
Aren't there so many dust particles that they can easily account for the number of orbs?

Why aren't there an equal number of orbs flitting about for each person who has died in Earth's history (or are there)? Why are "spirits" of people - people who follow a generally human shape - compressed into spheres? How long does an orb last - in perpetuity? What are its qualities?

What scientific evidence can you present that demonstrates any existence beyond the body's death, let alone that dust particles in photographs are "spirit orbs?"

(Ironically, the Bible got this one right. "From dust ye have come, and to dust shall ye return.") ;)
 
H

hopeful skeptic

Guest
It presents no problem to create some orbs, alright.
But then, the same counts for ghosts, UFOs, or anything else.
Right! What does this imply? Carry this thought a little further, and you're there.

Did you ask me if I can present scientific evidence that demonstrates any existence beyond the body's death ? Alright, first of all, I cannot offer you any 'scientific evidence' at all. I presume that you knew that ;)
I had a hunch.

But you know what ? I couldn't care less about 'scientific evidence'.
That's okay. Neither does any supernaturalist. I'm in the minority here, not you!

Science says that exotic matter weighs less than nothing. OH OH !
Why is such a thing taken as a fact ? Does science have the means to prove that ?
Um, yes.

Now, back to the subject. Science is not inclined to prove the existence beyond the body's death. Why ? The mind-imprisoning institute called church wouldn't be pleased with that and for another reason, it wouldn't gain any financial benefits to anyone.
I thought "church" was based on the existence of an immortal soul? Wouldn't the churches fund scientific research that verified the existence of a soul? I mean, the soul is the entire raison d'etre for the church.

Do you really believe scientists are controlled by the church? (Why is it always the Christians who get this flak? You find Muslims, Orthodox Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, "pagans," psychics, remote viewers, contactees and voodoo practitioners less invested in the supernatural?)

And if science was controlled by those nefarious, all-conspiring Christians, then I'm mystified as to why we're having an Intelligent Design controversy in our schools and courts, and why the Christians are consistently losing to scientists and science advocates. I'm mystified as to how the Republicans lost the 2006 midterms. How did the Great Christ Conspiracy miss that one?

Science is a convenient way to manipulate. Scientific evidence ? No, thank you.
Click your ruby slippers together and repeat: "That which is inconvenient does not exist. That which is inconvenient does not exist. That which is inconvenient does not exist."

And before I come to an end, if you experiment with relaxation exercises or Out-of-Body Experiences, it quickly becomes evident that there is much more than what we perceive as reality. Would you "need" scientific approval of what you know is real ? And if it was, what would happen if you had an OBE and afterwards science would tell you that it is all just brain chemistry. Would you forget your experience and go along with them ?
First of all, OBEs have natural explanations and are not supernatural phenomena. They are the intellect's misinterpretation of a range of physical circumstances. Relaxation exercises are physical in nature, have physical effects, and have nothing to do with the supernatural. I meditate every morning. It has nothing to do with supernaturalism. It is a calming technique that teaches me focus and patience - two items of which I am in short supply.

If I thought I had an OBE, I would realize that what I had has happened to other people, has been reasonably explained by science and is nothing for which I should throw all reason, logic and science out the window.
 

DBTrek

The Deacon of Beacon Hill
hopeful skeptic said:
This is paraedolia, and is perfectly normal, not a mental or sensory disfunction. The human brain seeks patterns - recognizable ones - in disorder.
Not to pull the thread too far off track but . . .

. . . I've been studying several books (and experimenting a bit) with Technical Analysis of the stock market for the last year. I have a deep seated suspicion that much of technical analysis consists of pareidolia or more specifically clustering illusion. Given a large enough data set (and the stock market certainly has that) the human mind is predisposed to see repeating patterns and attach significance to them.

I'm still going to strike it rich and buy this planet though. So get ready for your new anarchist non-master to abolish all law in the next decade or so. :p

(Don't worry, tribalism will still exist, so it won't be a complete cluster f***)

-DBTrek
 
H

hopeful skeptic

Guest
No to pull the thread too far off track
That's okay. I think it needs saving. This thread, and a few others.

. . . I've been studying several books (and experimenting a bit) with Technical Analysis of the stock market for the last year. I have a deep seated suspicion that much of technical analysis consists of pareidolia or more specifically clustering illusion. Given a large enough data set (and the stock market certainly has that) the human mind is predisposed to see repeating patterns and attach significance to them.
A friend of mine who loves to watch the stock market was talking about something like this just last week. I'm a terrible investor (no patience, I'm afraid), and leave my investing up to reputable experts, but I should look into this. I love this kind of stuff.

I read a study paper in the service once that essentially suggested that paraedolia might have had a part to play in the decision-making process during war, but don't recall the author off hand, or his specific parameters or examples. I'll have to look that up.

I'm still going to strike it rich and buy this planet though. So get ready for your new anarchist non-master to abolish all law in the next decade or so. :p
So I guess I won't be filing any applications for minion status, will I? ;) Damn.

(Don't worry, tribalism will still exist, so it won't be a complete cluster f***)
Good. If I lost loyalty to Ohio State and such, I'd be lost. I'd be terribly misplaced in a truly anarchic world. :)
 
P

Paranormalfreak101

Guest
Well, to get back on topic, there is infact a phenomenon called matrixing. Matrixing is when the human brain causes the eye to "see things" in a way. That explains why people often report seeing "faces" in these orbs. I'm not saying that people are just seeing things, but that some cases can be explained, and proved as fake. :eek:
 

idontunderstand

Skilled Investigator
hopeful skeptic

First of all, OBEs have natural explanations and are not supernatural phenomena. They are the intellect's misinterpretation of a range of physical circumstances. Relaxation exercises are physical in nature, have physical effects, and have nothing to do with the supernatural. I meditate every morning. It has nothing to do with supernaturalism
I remember a report about a hospital several years ago. This doctors patients had reported out of body experiences. Naturally curious the doctor placed cards with symbols on them high up in places that you could not see.

The patients had no idea about these cards, and the location of them. Eventually another patient had an OBE experience, and the doctor had asked them if they had seen anything. The patient related that they had seen a strange symbol on top of a high cabinet, which correlated with the doctors card and placement.

I think over the course of the following year, the same observations were reported.

I hope I have remembered this correctly, I will try and find the source of the story.
 
H

hopeful skeptic

Guest
idontunderstand said:
I remember a report about a hospital several years ago. This doctors patients had reported out of body experiences. Naturally curious the doctor placed cards with symbols on them high up in places that you could not see. The patients had no idea about these cards, and the location of them. Eventually another patient had an OBE experience, and the doctor had asked them if they had seen anything. The patient related that they had seen a strange symbol on top of a high cabinet, which correlated with the doctors card and placement.I think over the course of the following year, the same observations were reported.
In which scientific, peer-reviewed journal was this experiment published?
 
I

interestedINitall

Guest
hopeful skeptic said:
In which scientific, peer-reviewed journal was this experiment published?
My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw it on Dateline last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

;)
 

Aaron LeClair

Paranormal Maven
idontunderstand said:
hopeful skeptic



I remember a report about a hospital several years ago. This doctors patients had reported out of body experiences. Naturally curious the doctor placed cards with symbols on them high up in places that you could not see.

The patients had no idea about these cards, and the location of them. Eventually another patient had an OBE experience, and the doctor had asked them if they had seen anything. The patient related that they had seen a strange symbol on top of a high cabinet, which correlated with the doctors card and placement.

I think over the course of the following year, the same observations were reported.

I hope I have remembered this correctly, I will try and find the source of the story.

If anyone recalls the source I would be interested in reading about this.

I'm aware of a similar case but it was done with an electronic light board. No successes were reported.
 

idontunderstand

Skilled Investigator
interestedINitall said:
My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw it on Dateline last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

;)

WTF? Is that supposed to be some clever comment?
 

idontunderstand

Skilled Investigator
hopeful skeptic said:
In which scientific, peer-reviewed journal was this experiment published?
Hi HS,

As far as I can ascertain the studys are still ongoing. I had a root around and think this was the source of the information. I think it was a program on the BBC that was dealing with this subject called the day I died (HORIZON)

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | Show me heaven

According to the BBC report -:

13 hospitals taking part
Symbols to be placed in strategic places
Will only be seen by those having an out-of-body experience

The two main researchers seem to be -:

Professor Peter Fenwick
Dr Sam Parnia

Website -:

Their website -:

Near Death Experiences and Consciousness at the End of Life

Ill try and contact Professor fenwick and see if any results are available.

Cheers
 

idontunderstand

Skilled Investigator
A.LeClair said:
If anyone recalls the source I would be interested in reading about this.

I'm aware of a similar case but it was done with an electronic light board. No successes were reported.
Hi there,

I refer you to the response I gave HS.

Cheers
 

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