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Cryptids and environmentalism?

Discussion in 'Cryptozoology' started by everydaypsyche, Apr 23, 2017.



?

What do you believe about cryptids?

  1. I don't think they exist.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. I think it is likely that they exist.

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. I am certain that they exist.

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. everydaypsyche

    everydaypsyche Paranormal Novice

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    Hello, all! I am very glad to be joining you here at The Paracast and look forward to contributing to the forums here. I am a graduate student working on my final paper before I finish my M.A. in Folklore. I wanted to ask you a few questions. Since I am writing a paper on this subject, could I use your responses in the paper? I won't use your name or image (or anyone else's), just your responses to the questions here. If that’s okay with you let me know. Even though many consider online materials fair game, I want my intentions clear, and I don’t want to infringe on anyone’s privacy. (I won’t go through your answers to previous threads either, just what’s discussed here.) I can even post the final paper to the forum and continue the discussion.

    Questions:​

    · In your opinion, how do cryptids keep themselves concealed?

    · Do they conceal themselves intentionally? For what reason?

    · Do human beings pose a threat to cryptids? In what ways?

    · In general, are human–cryptid interactions peaceful, dangerous, a mixture of the two?

    · Do you enjoy films (or other media) about cryptids? What kinds?

    · How does this kind of popular media influence people's perceptions of cryptids?

    · Have you ever personally sought out a cryptid? What happened?

    · Have you ever spontaneously seen a cryptid? In what context?

    · Do you believe cryptids are a species that developed naturally or are they the result of otherworldly intervention?

    · Do you consider yourself an environmentalist?

    · How does your stance on environmentalism impact your views on cryptids?

    · What kinds of environmentalist agendas can benefit cryptids in the wild?
     
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  2. everydaypsyche

    everydaypsyche Paranormal Novice

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    I had a few questions sent to me, so I thought I'd clarify a few things!

    Cryptids are a broad category. As far as I'm concerned, anything from Sasquatch and brownies to fairies and dragons are fair game. I'm kind of at the beginnings of all this, so I'm open to hearing about whatever experiences people want to share. My primary work at the moment is the study of belief systems, so I'd rather be more open than constrictive. Tell me what you think! The more detailed the better. Your experiences discussing, researching, searching relevant to cryptids are both welcome and appreciated. (Complete sentences are preferable, but share whatever you want to share and however you feel most confident.)

    Also, I'm looking less at empirical data and more at experiential data and belief. Since everyone has their own nuanced understandings of these creatures, I'd really like to hear yours!
     
  3. Han

    Han piscator ψ

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    [​IMG]

    This is an extremely interesting image and open to all sorts of interpretations, maybe by giving you my own it will help to convey the way I think about cryptids.

    Starting from the outside we have an ornate border, a vivid blue body of water, with water plants and waves represented using white. Moving inwards we see a tree or vine, with bark patterns highlighted in white encircling the scene, on the right hand side we see roots or branches that have intertwined. Stars or constellations are represented as dots in gold in the background and are enclosed in a grid pattern. towards the center and to the left we have a group of monks, and to the right we have a seated female figure. In her left hand she holds a set square and in her right a pair of callipers. A base or frame is depicted with wooden legs at the bottom of the scene, which supports a circular tabletop with a green edge or rim and a pale yellow middle. On the table are geometric shapes.


    What does the picture say to me? or what do these things mean to me? :

    my eye is encouraged to the center of the image where we have an extremely anthropomorphic pair of callipers, but it is almost as if the artist is giving small clues to look more closely, if I look at the set square, it is not pointing at the roots or branches, but past them, and then the gaze of the monks is not on the teacher or the table, but in the same direction as the set square is pointed.
    I feel there is a dispute between the senior monks (who are depicted in blue robes with red sleeves and pointing to places on the table) and the female teacher, it even appears as if one of the senior monks has his hand over the mouth of one of the less senior ones to prevent him from speaking.

    I think what the image is trying to say is that the elephant is not in the room, but it is just over there, and we can all see it, IF we look.

    Cryptids are real.

    But what is a real cryptid?

    The Oxford English Dictionary defines the noun cryptid as "an animal whose existence or survival to the present day is disputed or unsubstantiated; any animal of interest to a cryptozoologist".

    This is such a broad, loose and all encompassing definition that means that all sorts of creatures could potentially qualify, one good example is the Mountain Gorilla which is often referenced by Bigfoot researchers, but in my opinion is not a "true" Cryptid.

    By that logic flees and all sorts of parasites could be called "cryptids" because they have evolved to remain "hidden" from their host.

    However much I love it, cryptozoology is not a very scientific subject, and as a result all sorts of ideas and agendas get mixed up in it.
    For example ideas about Human evolution and origins or the age and even shape of planet Earth.

    My personal opinion is that this hijacking of experiences like Bigfoot or Nessi by people with "religious" agendas is sad because they are valuable in their own way.
    Cryptids used to be part of the fabric of society, and had an important role to play, they evolved alongside us, because they are part of us.

    If it were up to me I would separate "mundane" animals and magic animals into separate categories.
    For example I would consider a Coelacanth as a "mundane" animal and a Unicorn as a "magic" animal. (at present they are both considered to be cryptids)

    Now you maybe wondering how this all relates to environmentalism?
    Well its like this, when the lines of science and "belief" are blurred confusion ensues, and this confusion is exploited to "condone" or "pursue" inaction or action alike. For example global warming, there is now a situation where peoples view of global warming is more about politics than about logic.
    People use the logic of convenience, and debate the reasons behind mans dominion over the animals and the planet, when actually the really important question is what are we going to do with the power?

    Magic creatures like Bigfoot will live on, but mundane creatures that go extinct are gone forever.
    Jurassic park is fantasy and is about as valid as the idea of some kind of "space brothers" coming to rescue us from ourselves.

    Unfortunately environmentalism is confused with "tree hugging" spiritualistic "new age" "hippies". This is no accident, there is a definite attempt to belittle, ridicule and discourage people from questioning where their food or other things come from, or how they are produced.
    People are confused to such a degree that you get "vegetarians" that eat Fishes, and seemingly rational people that merrily eat MRM and would even feed it to their loved ones.

    Let me just say that I believe that as much as possible of an animal should be used, but within reason. A situation where on burger could contain genetic material from literally hundreds if not thousands of individual animals should never have been allowed. It is a direct result of mass production techniques applied to farming on an industrial scale.
    Just to clarify my point, I believe that certain illnesses or diseases can be contracted by humans eating part of an infected animal, therefore the more "individuals" you eat, the higher your chance one was "sick" or diseased.
    I have moral objections too of course.
    factory farming and Industrial fishing are just two of the current pressures on the Environment, but there are countless more.
    The world was extremely volatile before modern humans, and will always be, but to pretend that we have not or could not fundamentally harm or help the world around us, is unforgivable.

    It would be a fair critisism to say that I seem very concerned about animals, but what about humans?
    I consider humans to be animals, highly evolved yes, but still animals, so my concern is for them also.
    It is usually the poorest people that are most effected by disasters, man made or otherwise, through circumstance rather than choice.

    If a belief that Bigfoot is a primate and that leaving out apples for him or banging trees to communicate with him makes bigfooters happy then fine.
    Who am I to judge from my armchair?
    I have looked for definite proof and it doesn't exist, except in the form of eyewitness testimony, and until we have a way to transfer memories between people, we have to rely on language to describe a memory of an experience. What exactly happens when people see Bigfoot or other cryptids is very difficult to throw a blanket explanation over, but I am convinced that a human or humans must be "involved" whenever such a magic creature "manifests".
    To me it matters little whether bigfoot et all can actually physically interact with the environment, it is demonstrable that they can have a profound impact on a persons psyche.

    The mind and perception are notoriously difficult to "measure" and especially to discuss, but we know that placebo and its counterpart nocebo are valid concepts and do have tangible impacts.

    I have run out of time I will add more when I can.
     
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  4. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    I voted "likely" based on the definition below.

    We are discovering new species all the time, and we are finding ones thought to be extinct but are simply very scarce. The Tasmanian tiger is a local example.

    Zoologists hunting Tasmanian tiger declare 'no doubt' species still alive

    Is there evidence the Tasmanian tiger still exists? – video report

    The Tasmanian Tiger | australia.gov.au
     
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  5. everydaypsyche

    everydaypsyche Paranormal Novice

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    The articles you shared rely on empirical data to prove that Tasmanian tigers do exist (I was very excited to hear that they were not extinct!) Do you consider experiential data (stories about other people's experiences ) as reliable evidence?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2017
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  6. Han

    Han piscator ψ

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    Rather than continuing exactly where I left off, I would like to return to this image:

    [​IMG]

    I like coincidences, and you will have to take my word that I hadn't seen the image before I saw it here as your avatar, anyway:

    I mentioned before that it felt to me like we were being told (by the artist) to look outside the image (the direction of the monks gazes and the set square) well it took a while but I eventually found the a digitised versions of the original manuscript: Details of an item from the British Library Catalogue of Illuminated Manuscripts

    the image above is extremely cropped a more complete version is below:

    [​IMG]

    It turns out the scene of the teaching of geometry is actually the center of a great big letter P (for Paracast!!! maybe ;)) but we also see two grey birds, that look like Corvids (crow family) and Corvids are not only extremely intelligent, but they can also "talk" (in the same way a parrot or macaw can). Birds have always been important symbolically, for example the owl of Athena, the stork bringing babies etc etc etc the reason or thinking behind this probably has/had to do with a perceived connection between Birds/winged creatures and the "heavens". (because they can fly).
    The importance of Corvids in the Anglo/Norman Heraldic tradition can be best demonstrated by the fact that the tower of London to this day has its own retineu of Ravens that protect the crown Jewels.
    I don't think that corvids were randomly selected for decoration in this image, I understand them to be symbolically protecting the "crown jewels of knowledge" and one of those precious jewels is definitely "Geometry" (the Golden ratio etc).

    In the description provided by the British Library who retains this manuscript it says:


    "Detail of a historiated initial with a woman with a set-square and dividers teaching a group of students (perhaps the personification of Geometry)."

    I agree that it is perhaps a "personification" of Geometry but to my mind more likely to be a personification of "knowledge" herself. It is interesting to note that the word Greek word for knowledge is: "Gnosis" (a feminine noun).
    I wrote a little about the way that religion hijacks events or words, and Gnosis is one of them. it should not be confused with Gnostic or Gnosticism.

    As I said before I felt as if the image was instructing the viewer to look outside and I did, which is how I found the Corvids, but I also looked at other pages from the manuscript and was pleasantly suprised to find it is full of "cryptids" (which the British Library describes as Hybrids*): I have pasted the BL descriptions below each image in italics with quote marks.

    [​IMG]

    "Detail of lower bar border with different animals holding various astronomical instruments."

    Winged creature on right reminds me of Zoroastrians.




    [​IMG]

    Detail of a decorated initial, and part of a bird's head.


    I have never seen a bird with protruding Ears????





    [​IMG]



    Detail of upper bar border with a fox with a bird in its mouth.

    No mention of the Hare and Hound also depicted which were/are both also symbolically important.







    [​IMG]

    Detail of puzzle initial and lower bar border, with two hybrids and hanging shields.

    [​IMG]


    Detail of a hybrid creature on the bar border, with a bishop's mitre.



    I think this is talking about priests being like birds in that they are a bridge between man and heaven e.g the Pontiff.





    [​IMG]



    Detail of a decorated initial with leaves, and a marginal hybrid creature.

    I have heard of Sea and Lake monsters described as having sheep like heads but not a Dragon before.






    [​IMG]



    Detail of lower bar border, with two hybrid creatures with swords and shields fighting.

    I think this has something to do with the Crusades, the combatants have very different equipment and dress.


    I am running out of time again sorry.






     
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  7. blowfish

    blowfish Whittingham

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    Also had vote and if you get access to the Vatican , Private Libraries then your World view will change and recommend you listen to Graham Hancock latest interview. The backlash towards the announcement from skeptics already. When you see these animals and what they can do no doubt you will shit your pants.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
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  8. Han

    Han piscator ψ

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    Hi Blowfish, who was the Hancock interview with? or what channel was it on? if you have a link I would be very grateful.
     
  9. blowfish

    blowfish Whittingham

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    Han ,
    Suggest you goggle Graham and watch his latest talk and watch this one from last year classic.
     
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  10. Han

    Han piscator ψ

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    Thank you, I have seen quite a few lectures by J.A West and co, especially by Hancock, he usually calls his talks something, for example "fingerprints of the gods", "a species with amnesia", "magicians of the gods" etc.

    Can you remember what the title of the one you saw with the vatican and animals was called? or was it more of an interview on a podcast or similar rather than a lecture?

    He gives a lot of talks and appears on podcasts all the time, so I would like a bit more detail to find the exact one you saw.
    No worries if you can't remember any more info, but I haven't managed to find it yet, so any little clues or hints would make it easier for me to do so.

    Best wishes
     
  11. Burnt State

    Burnt State Paranormal Adept

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    actually, using the forum as a search engine for paranormal discussion is highly recommended. past discussions on the forum provide some fascinating insights, especially as many infamous posters are no longer here, and their past scribbles are often great launching points or are simply filled with insights not repeated to date. as you can see above Han is an interesting writer here and his past posts on cryptids are certainly worth reading for your own interest.


    you have an interesting set of questions here but i picked only the ones that interested me the most. while i appreciate an environmental approach to preserving species we have yet to encounter i do find the paranormal cryptid discussion to be the more interesting one as opposed to legitimate biological species not yet discovered. consequently i'm more interested in tales of dog faced men smoking, meeting a teleporting bigfoot in the woods and sightings of centaurs hoofing it across the street than whether or not suspected primates or extinct birds are actually alive or not. i don't see bigfoot as an unknown primate at all and support a more paranormal induced response to these questions.

    so how do the weird things like, elves and faeries stay concealed - i would say that primarily they are hiding out in our minds. by that i don't mean that all such strange sightings are merely flights of fancy, but that whatever the external stimulus is, it is dressed in the clothing that the mind supplies to help make sense of the moment. for some this may be a parade of tiny elves walking through walls or it's bigfoot dissolving into a smoky purple portal. i find it difficult to talk about the cryptid as a factual event but see it more as a function of the interaction of a perceiver and the history of folklore which modifies its content as our socio-cultural structure, and technology changes.

    in this way i don't see them as being concealed per se, but that for whatever reasons, when the circumstances are right between a witness and an unknown external stimulus, something strange can be seen and it will appear in a shape or form that makes perfect sense to the mind of the witness that happens to be doing the seeing at the time.

    i have sought out a cryptid as part of a personal experiment last fall. i religiously tried to conjure in my mind at the exact same location and day repeatedly over a series of visits to a more remote section of an arboretum while walking my dog. i was really trying to make "alien" contact and tried to concentrate repeatedly on meeting an alien in the woods. somewhere around my fifth or sixth visit the shape of a small, brown, crusty being with pinpoint black eyes and a narrow line for a mouth with no other discerning facial features, started to take shape in my mind. the shape of this creature took on a stronger and stronger impression in my mind until with further visits i started to experience that classic sensation of "Panic in the Woods" and was starting to seriously freak myself out. i was certain during some moments of visualizing the creature that i would indeed meet this creature right around the next tree or bend in the path. the fear i started to experience on these walks became entirely palabable, and then i noticed i was able to access the image of the creature just as easily at home as i could while on the walks in the arboretum. my fear response started to increase so much that i decided to put an end to the experiment. self-induced hallucinations are interesting spaces but i wasn’t quite prepared to take this experiment to its ultimate conclusion in ways i had in the past. i though i had gone far enough...
     
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  12. Han

    Han piscator ψ

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    Hi @Burnt State I think I have picked up some bad habits from other threads, reading what I have written in this one is funny really, I think that the opportunity to pontificate was too great for my ego to resist. I reckon that this is a result of my own perception that it was an opportunity to "sell" cryptids to an academic (the OP). My aim was to show that cryptids should be taken seriously and that those interested in them were not naive or foolish.

    Oh the irony ;)


    What I should have done is just answer the questions :oops::rolleyes:
     
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  13. Han

    Han piscator ψ

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    · In your opinion, how do cryptids keep themselves concealed?

    Depends on the Cryptid in question. Camoflague, stealth and subterfuge

    · Do they conceal themselves intentionally? For what reason?


    yes. because they can.

    · Do human beings pose a threat to cryptids? In what ways?

    Yes. environmental (both psychic and phyiscal)

    · In general, are human–cryptid interactions peaceful, dangerous, a mixture of the two?


    Depends on type of cryptid and type interaction (think bears)


    · Do you enjoy films (or other media) about cryptids? What kinds?

    Documentary films, podcasts, digitized Libraries and some horror films (Jaws/Alien etc)

    · How does this kind of popular media influence people's perceptions of cryptids?

    Badly

    · Have you ever personally sought out a cryptid? What happened?

    No, never under any circumstances.

    · Have you ever spontaneously seen a cryptid? In what context?


    Yes, when I was a young Child. in an outdoor context.


    · Do you believe cryptids are a species that developed naturally or are they the result of otherworldly intervention?


    Totally depends on definition of Cryptid. But I do not believe in "otherworldly intervention" if that means "ET" GM.


    · Do you consider yourself an environmentalist?

    Yes

    · How does your stance on environmentalism impact your views on cryptids?

    I believe cryptids are part of the "environment"

    · What kinds of environmentalist agendas can benefit cryptids in the wild?


    Respect
     
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  14. Han

    Han piscator ψ

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    I would very much like to read your paper please share it when it's done. Thank you.
     
  15. mike

    mike Administrator Staff Member

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    Sometimes, just as i do with UFO sightings. The factors are often complex.

    Case in point my local newspaper has reported a sighting of a black panther in my area last week. They are of course not native to Australia so many are skeptical .
    But i know from a reliable source that this place

    Bullen's Animal World - Wikipedia

    Later this place

    African Lion Safari (Warragamba) - Wikipedia

    Did have some, and that the owner accidentally bred some without a license. He was in trouble already over escapes


    A retired Vet who treated animals there in the 90's told me that the owner released these animals into the wild near me rather than put them down or lose his handlers license.
    He was of the firm view the "blue mountains panthers" were the offspring of these animals.

    Most people don't know the backstory, so when one is sighted they laugh and say that's impossible.
     
  16. Han

    Han piscator ψ

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    Any progress?
     

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