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Can Evolution Have a ‘Higher Purpose’?


Christopher O'Brien

Back in the Saddle Aginn
Staff member
Article HERE:

By Robert White/New York Times

"About 25 years ago, a conversation between me and one of the greatest biologists of the 20th century took a weird turn.

"I was talking to William D. Hamilton, who was famous for coming up with the theory of “kin selection,” which explains patterns of altruism among close relatives in various species, including ours. This and other seminal ideas had earned Hamilton a place in the pantheon of thinkers who ushered in the modern Darwinian understanding of social behavior. Richard Dawkins, in the preface to his landmark 1976 book,“The Selfish Gene,” paid tribute to Hamilton and the three other “dominant figures” in social biology whose ideas formed the book’s foundation.

"I was interviewing Hamilton at the University of Michigan, where he was on sabbatical from Oxford. A video camera was rolling. I had been researching a book about evolutionary psychology, and I was hoping to create a documentary on the subject. The documentary never materialized, and Hamilton died in early 2000. My interview with him sat unwatched until earlier this year, when I tracked down the tape containing it.

"During the interview, I was trying to steer Hamilton toward philosophical topics, and at one point he went further than I had expected. He said, “I’m also quite open to the view that there is some kind of ultimate good which is of a religious nature — that we just have to look beyond what the evolutionary theory tells us and accept promptings of what ultimate good is, coming from some other source.” That’s an unusual thing for a great evolutionary biologist to say, but the most unusual part was still to come.

"Hamilton continued, in his British accent, “I could enlarge on that in terms of the possible existence of extraterrestrial manipulators who interfere, and so on, but I think this would be getting too far from the general topic of discussion.” Well, maybe, but this sounded at least as interesting as the general topic of discussion. I asked him if he meant that there was some kind of “transcendental purpose” that we humans are generally oblivious to.

"He answered: “Yes, yes. There’s one theory of the universe that I rather like — I accept it in an almost joking spirit — and that is that Planet Earth in our solar system is a kind of zoo for extraterrestrial beings who dwell out there somewhere. And this is the best, the most interesting experiment they could set up: to set up the evolution on Planet Earth going in such a way that it would produce these really interesting characters — humans who go around doing things — and they watch their experiment, interfering hardly at all so that almost everything we do comes out according to the laws of nature. But every now and then they see something which doesn’t look quite right — this zoo is going to kill itself off if they let you do this or that.” So, he continued, these extraterrestrials “insert a finger and just change some little thing. And maybe those are the miracles which the religious people like to so emphasize.” He reiterated: “I put it forward in an almost joking spirit. But I think it’s a kind of hypothesis that’s very, very hard to dismiss.”

"The headline almost writes itself: “World-Class Scientist Says Miracles Can Happen!” The subhead would add: “Extraterrestrials may play a role.”
REST OF ARTICLE HERE

 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
About 25 years ago, a conversation between me and one of the greatest biologists of the 20th century took a weird turn ...
Your own [ @Christopher O'Brien's ] childhood experience could easily be interpreted through religious filters as being chased by demons or some other agents of the devil. There's no question in my mind that people experience strange things, and that mundane explanations don't always hold water. Consequently I also greatly resonate with the idea that the alien agenda includes a long-term mostly clandestine study of our world. Naturally that would include us, and given your experiences, I think you are connected to this in a deeper way than most.

For example, think about the aquarium analogy Hamilton used. There is no question that if your experiences involve some objectively real and independent entities, that there was intention involved on their part, and that means you aren't just a random witness to some passing phenomena. So now imagine that the fish in the aquarium you've been studying suddenly starts studying you! That is you, and that is a huge shift from the wildlife passing by in a passive detached manner. This is why I say that you may be the most important person in ufology ( at least that I know of ).

To try to make this a bit clearer, when we're talking about something, even someone else, we're also really talking about ourselves. That's because thoughts are always to some extent a reflection of the thinker. Applying this principle to your string of experiences, it should be possible to reverse engineer them in a way that suggests a purpose or plan behind them, and in doing so illuminate the phenomenon that is beyond the aquarium. The fish now knows it's the subject of observation, and it has the attention of the observer. Therefore the study is bi-directional. You are the person in the interrogation room staring back through the one-way glass at the watchers in the shadows.
 
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Waller

Paranormal Maven
Article HERE:

"During the interview, I was trying to steer Hamilton toward philosophical topics, and at one point he went further than I had expected. He said, “I’m also quite open to the view that there is some kind of ultimate good which is of a religious nature — that we just have to look beyond what the evolutionary theory tells us and accept promptings of what ultimate good is, coming from some other source.” That’s an unusual thing for a great evolutionary biologist to say, but the most unusual part was still to come.

"Hamilton continued, in his British accent, “I could enlarge on that in terms of the possible existence of extraterrestrial manipulators who interfere, and so on,

REST OF ARTICLE HERE
It would only be considered unusual if you are still hooked into the antiquated paradigm that evolution cannot or does not have extraterrestrial modulation. If an evolutionary biologist cannot or does not take into account ET manipulation, then that is a EB that I have no time for whatsoever.

New, transformational times requires new thinking.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
It would only be considered unusual if you are still hooked into the antiquated paradigm that evolution cannot or does not have extraterrestrial modulation. If an evolutionary biologist cannot or does not take into account ET manipulation, then that is a EB that I have no time for whatsoever.
I did some digging once to see if any DNA work had been done to determine if there has been any genetic manipulation of humans at some point in the past. The article escapes me at the moment, but basically it said that any DNA manipulation would in theory leave certain markers, and that no such markers were found. However at the same time, it was also found that certain mutations, like the rapid growth and integration of the human cerebral cortex, is not fully explained. So it might be the case that the intervention was implemented in such a way as to appear as a natural mutation rather than an arbitrary insertion of a specific material. How exactly they tell the difference I don't know.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
I think the Khoury case provides compelling evidence for this hypothesis: The Alien DNA Paradigm
I seem to recall back when the alien hair sample was first hitting the scene that the results were inconclusive because the hair sample appeared to have been heavily bleached, resulting in damage to the DNA. Now all I seem to be able to find are pro-alien quotes.
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
Perhaps you are getting confused with his wifes hair.


The blond hairs were extremely thin and almost clear in color. It was determined that the hair was not chemically treated, because if it had been, little or no mitochondrial DNA could have been recovered. However, using the PCR (polymerase chain reaction) process, good quality DNA was recovered.

For comparison, samples were also taken of Peter Khoury's hair and that of his wife Vivian. DNA was successfully extracted from Peter's hair, but no usable DNA was recovered from Vivian's hair, possibly because of chemical treatment.

After thorough testing of the hair samples, the scientists of the Anomaly Physical Evidence Group arrived at a startling conclusion. The thin blond hair, which appeared to have come from a light-skinned caucasian-type woman, could not have come from a normal human of that racial type. Instead, though human, the hair showed five distinctive DNA markers that are characteristic of a rare sub-group of the Chinese Mongoloid racial type.

A detailed survey of the literature on variations in mitochondrial DNA, comprising tens of thousands of samples, showed only four other people on record with all five of the distinctive markers in the blond hair. All four were Chinese, with black hair.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed only from mother to child and therefore offers a means of tracing ancient ancestry on the mother's side. The findings suggest that all four of the Chinese subjects share a common female ancestor with the blonde woman. But there is no easy explanation for how this could be.
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
By 1998, I began an investigation into the hair sample, when biochemical colleagues agreed to undertake what was the world's first PCR (polymerase Chain Reaction) DNA profiling of biological material implicated in an alien abduction experience. The analysis confirmed the hair came from someone who was biologically close to normal human genetics, but of an unusual racial type - a rare Chinese Mongoloid type - one of the rarest human lineages known, that lies further from the human mainstream than any other except for African pygmies and aboriginals.



An artist's impression of the blonde haired "nordic" being encountered by Peter Khoury in Sydney during 1992.


There was the strange anomaly of it being blonde to clear instead of black, as would be expected from the Asian type mitochondrial DNA.



The study concluded,

"The most probable donor of the hair must therefore be as (Khoury) claims: a tall blonde female who does not need much color in her hair or skin, as a form of protection against the sun, perhaps because she does not require it."



The DNA sequence overlayed was extracted from the hair sample recovered by Khoury (from the cover of the International UFO Reporter (IUR), Spring, 1999)
Magnified hair sample showing optical transparency and pronounced mosaic structure. The circles of light are reflections. Photo taken from video (B.Chalker/APEG). The DNA sequence on the left is from the hair shaft.


The original DNA work was done on the shaft of the hair. Fascinating further anomalies were found in the root of the hair.



Two types of DNA were found depending on where the mitochondrial DNA testing occurs, namely confirming the rare Chinese type DNA in the hair shaft and indicating a rare possible Basque/Gaelic type DNA in the root section.

This was very puzzling and controversial, until a 'Nature Biotechnology' paper appeared in 2000. It revealed recent findings on hair transplanting with previously incompatible hair, using advanced cloning techniques, developed in a possible cure for baldness.



We seem to be seeing similar combined or "grafted" DNA in the sample recovered under controversial circumstances by Peter Khoury back in 1992.

Perhaps even more controversial is that we have findings suggestive of nuclear DNA indicating possible viral resistance.



The hair sample seems to show it contains 2 deleted genes for CCR5 protein and no intact gene for normal undeleted CCR5 - this CCR5 deletion factor has been implicated in AIDS resistance.



The Hair Root DNA Sequence



To keep a very complex story somewhat uncomplicated, what seems to be suggested by the range of findings is possible evidence for advanced DNA techniques and DNA anomalies & findings, for which we are only now discovering or starting to make sense of in mainstream biotechnology.

The World's First DNA PCR Investigation of Biological Evidence From an Alien Abduction
 

Red

Paranormal Adept
By 1998, I began an investigation into the hair sample, when biochemical colleagues agreed to undertake what was the world's first PCR (polymerase Chain Reaction) DNA profiling of biological material implicated in an alien abduction experience. The analysis confirmed the hair came from someone who was biologically close to normal human genetics, but of an unusual racial type - a rare Chinese Mongoloid type - one of the rarest human lineages known, that lies further from the human mainstream than any other except for African pygmies and aboriginals.



An artist's impression of the blonde haired "nordic" being encountered by Peter Khoury in Sydney during 1992.


There was the strange anomaly of it being blonde to clear instead of black, as would be expected from the Asian type mitochondrial DNA.



The study concluded,

"The most probable donor of the hair must therefore be as (Khoury) claims: a tall blonde female who does not need much color in her hair or skin, as a form of protection against the sun, perhaps because she does not require it."
I hope the opportunity presents itself to test the sample again, if there is enough remaining to test. The technology has advanced enough there could be additional and important insights to be gained.
 

Trajanus

Paranormal Adept
"He answered: “Yes, yes. There’s one theory of the universe that I rather like — I accept it in an almost joking spirit — and that is that Planet Earth in our solar system is a kind of zoo for extraterrestrial beings who dwell out there somewhere. And this is the best, the most interesting experiment they could set up: to set up the evolution on Planet Earth going in such a way that it would produce these really interesting characters — humans who go around doing things — and they watch their experiment, interfering hardly at all so that almost everything we do comes out according to the laws of nature.
"Set up the evolution on Earth"--does he believe aliens produced the first life here? That would require ETs advanced enough for interstellar travel c 4 billion years ago. Judging by our example, it takes about 5 billion years for life to progress from microbes to spacefaring beings, so any alien life advanced enough by c 4 billion years ago would have to have begun evolving 8-9 billion years ago. Offhand I don't know if that implies origination in a Population I system. If it's Population II it could be too metal deficient for life.


But every now and then they see something which doesn’t look quite right — this zoo is going to kill itself off if they let you do this or that.” So, he continued, these extraterrestrials “insert a finger and just change some little thing.
Where were these ETs at the time of the end Permian crisis or Chicxulub? :)

And maybe those are the miracles which the religious people like to so emphasize.” He reiterated: “I put it forward in an almost joking spirit. But I think it’s a kind of hypothesis that’s very, very hard to dismiss.”
In his opinion.
 

Red

Paranormal Adept
"Set up the evolution on Earth"--does he believe aliens produced the first life here? That would require ETs advanced enough for interstellar travel c 4 billion years ago. Judging by our example, it takes about 5 billion years for life to progress from microbes to spacefaring beings, so any alien life advanced enough by c 4 billion years ago would have to have begun evolving 8-9 billion years ago. Offhand I don't know if that implies origination in a Population I system. If it's Population II it could be too metal deficient for life.
Not necessarily, any technologically advanced society would have the capability to send out probes to target locations for seeding. Your only obstacle would be to find the appropriate "seed," keeping it viable for the duration of the trip, and preventing it from burning up in the atmosphere on approach.
 

Waller

Paranormal Maven
I did some digging once to see if any DNA work had been done to determine if there has been any genetic manipulation of humans at some point in the past. The article escapes me at the moment, but basically it said that any DNA manipulation would in theory leave certain markers, and that no such markers were found. However at the same time, it was also found that certain mutations, like the rapid growth and integration of the human cerebral cortex, is not fully explained. So it might be the case that the intervention was implemented in such a way as to appear as a natural mutation rather than an arbitrary insertion of a specific material. How exactly they tell the difference I don't know.
There is more to the genetic manipulation by the Anunnaki/Lyrans and other ET races than we can comprehend. For instance, one thought, is that if the manipulations were to remain secret, as it has for 1,000s of years, then it would make sense that no markers would be found or, at the least, no markers would be found until the time was right to support the truth of matters.

One of the greatest gifts we will receive is the untangling of our human history in its fullest and most complete concordance.
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
Not necessarily, any technologically advanced society would have the capability to send out probes to target locations for seeding. Your only obstacle would be to find the appropriate "seed," keeping it viable for the duration of the trip, and preventing it from burning up in the atmosphere on approach.
That's something I've touched on in my Post Biological Hypothesis, That in order to replicate the SI would need to replicate the circumstances that created it.
Simply copying the machinery would not be the same. It would seed Biospheres with biological precursors and let evolution take its course.

"I think it very likely – in fact inevitable – that biological intelligence is only a transitory phenomenon, a fleeting phase in the evolution of the universe," Davies writes. "If we ever encounter extraterrestrial intelligence, I believe it is overwhelmingly likely to be post-biological in nature."
"Biological Intelligence is a Fleeting Phase in the Evolution of the Universe"
In the current search for advanced extraterrestrial life SETI experts say the odds favor detecting alien AI rather than biological life because the time between aliens developing radio technology and artificial intelligence would be brief.


“If we build a machine with the intellectual capability of one human, then within 5 years, its successor is more intelligent than all humanity combined,” says Seth Shostak, SETI chief astronomer. “Once any society invents the technology that could put them in touch with the cosmos, they are at most only a few hundred years away from changing their own paradigm of sentience to artificial intelligence,” he says.


ET machines would be infinitely more intelligent and durable than the biological intelligence that created them. Intelligent machines would be immortal, and would not need to exist in the carbon-friendly “Goldilocks Zones” current SETI searches focus on. An AI could self-direct its own evolution, each "upgrade" would be created with the sum total of its predecessor’s knowledge preloaded.


So timescale wise its not beyond the realms of possibility.
 

mike

Paranormal Adept
ET machines would be infinitely more intelligent and durable than the biological intelligence that created them. Intelligent machines would be immortal, and would not need to exist in the carbon-friendly “Goldilocks Zones” current SETI searches focus on
And they could also set up shop in zones of ultra high gravity, where relative time would slow. They could watch the universe go about its business in fast forward, like a scene from HG Wells the Time Machine and emerge when they saw something worth their attention.

As subjects go, i cant think of one more fascinating.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
... ET machines would be infinitely more intelligent and durable than the biological intelligence that created them ...
I think that the word "infinite" as used above is a stretch. The intelligence of any given AI is limited by its design specifications, and its durability by the properties of the materials from which it is made. Neither are infinite. What's more, there are only so many elemental building blocks to work with and only so many that are stable enough to be useful. So there is a finite amount of useful and realizable possibilities, which means that at least within this universe, there is a ceiling to the practical application of knowledge.
 
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Red

Paranormal Adept
I think that the word "infinite" as used above is a stretch. The intelligence of any given AI is limited by its design specifications, and its durability by the properties of the materials from which it is made. Neither are infinite. What's more, there are only so many elemental building blocks to work with and only so many that are stable enough to be useful. So there is a finite amount of useful and realizable possibilities, which means that at least within this universe, there is a ceiling to the practical application of knowledge.
Spores can stay dormant and relatively undamaged in the cold wastes of space. You would only need to find micro-organisms that could survive the extremes and chemical/geological makeup of the planet you want to seed. Once the bacterium is established, evolution can then take over.
 
Last edited:

Trajanus

Paranormal Adept
Spores can stay dormant and relatively undamaged in the cold wastes of space. You would only need to find micro-organisms that could survive the extremes and chemical/geological makeup of the planet you want to seed. Once the bacterium is established, evolution can then take over.

If we're discussing biological life can we assume this is possible? If life can arise and adapt there at all, shouldn't we expect indigenous organisms? Also, AFAIK there's no evidence for life on Mars or Venus, which in theory could've been seeded.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Red

blowfish

Whittingham
By 1998, I began an investigation into the hair sample, when biochemical colleagues agreed to undertake what was the world's first PCR (polymerase Chain Reaction) DNA profiling of biological material implicated in an alien abduction experience. The analysis confirmed the hair came from someone who was biologically close to normal human genetics, but of an unusual racial type - a rare Chinese Mongoloid type - one of the rarest human lineages known, that lies further from the human mainstream than any other except for African pygmies and aboriginals.



An artist's impression of the blonde haired "nordic" being encountered by Peter Khoury in Sydney during 1992.


There was the strange anomaly of it being blonde to clear instead of black, as would be expected from the Asian type mitochondrial DNA.



The study concluded,

"The most probable donor of the hair must therefore be as (Khoury) claims: a tall blonde female who does not need much color in her hair or skin, as a form of protection against the sun, perhaps because she does not require it."



The DNA sequence overlayed was extracted from the hair sample recovered by Khoury (from the cover of the International UFO Reporter (IUR), Spring, 1999)
Magnified hair sample showing optical transparency and pronounced mosaic structure. The circles of light are reflections. Photo taken from video (B.Chalker/APEG). The DNA sequence on the left is from the hair shaft.


The original DNA work was done on the shaft of the hair. Fascinating further anomalies were found in the root of the hair.



Two types of DNA were found depending on where the mitochondrial DNA testing occurs, namely confirming the rare Chinese type DNA in the hair shaft and indicating a rare possible Basque/Gaelic type DNA in the root section.

This was very puzzling and controversial, until a 'Nature Biotechnology' paper appeared in 2000. It revealed recent findings on hair transplanting with previously incompatible hair, using advanced cloning techniques, developed in a possible cure for baldness.



We seem to be seeing similar combined or "grafted" DNA in the sample recovered under controversial circumstances by Peter Khoury back in 1992.

Perhaps even more controversial is that we have findings suggestive of nuclear DNA indicating possible viral resistance.



The hair sample seems to show it contains 2 deleted genes for CCR5 protein and no intact gene for normal undeleted CCR5 - this CCR5 deletion factor has been implicated in AIDS resistance.



The Hair Root DNA Sequence



To keep a very complex story somewhat uncomplicated, what seems to be suggested by the range of findings is possible evidence for advanced DNA techniques and DNA anomalies & findings, for which we are only now discovering or starting to make sense of in mainstream biotechnology.

The World's First DNA PCR Investigation of Biological Evidence From an Alien Abduction
Mike ,
It looks like a computer coding within that image and not surprised if it came from A.I.
 

Red

Paranormal Adept
If we're discussing biological life can we assume this is possible? If life can arise and adapt there at all, shouldn't we expect indigenous organisms? Also, AFAIK there's no evidence for life on Mars or Venus, which in theory could've been seeded.
I was only speaking to how easily it would be to seed a planet as Randall wanted to make it way more difficult than it is. ;) I agree, though that if indigenous life can arise on this planet, it could happen on others and would need to be a consideration in any discussion regarding seeding.

I wouldn't consider Mars or Venus good candidates for seeding. Venus is too hot and neither Mars or Venus have enough liquid water to consider them good candidates.
 

Trajanus

Paranormal Adept
I wouldn't consider Mars or Venus good candidates for seeding. Venus is too hot
Long ago Sagan suggested seeding Venus with bacteria to break apart its CO2 and help cool the planet. It might be part of a terraforming scheme someday.

and neither Mars or Venus have enough liquid water to consider them good candidates.
Mars has ample frozen water, which might be liquified if the planet can be warmed.
 

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