Betty and Barney/ Nazi looking Alien

[Kieran]

I was reading about the Hill's encounter with a "UFO" last night, and i found information online that was interesting. Barney said, during his hypnotic regression, that one of the beings looked like a Nazi? I never once heard that before from Stanton or any other researcher who has looked into this case "WHY"?

Like, was Barney seeing the small beings as Nazis or just the one being? For instance, Barney kept saying the eyes the eyes during the hypnotic session.

Did the beings, represent evil in the eyes of Barney? Nazi/evil? I have other suggestions, but i am short of time today. I really find the whole case strange when you begin to look at it more closely. I found other things in the story that puzzle me, and when i get time i try to come back to.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

That book by Betty's niece, Captured I think is the name, deals with that, if memory serves. Barney was a war vet, and the events took place fifteen or so years after the war was over, so such comparisons would be a lot more common than in, say, the 70s or later.

Anyway, the book is well worth reading, and it sets the record straight on a number of issues that have been twisted and "spun" over the decades. Of particular interest to me was what Friedman said about hypnosis and "false memories" planted by hypnotists using leading questions and outright suggestion. Dr. Simon tried to do just that with the Hills, since his goal was to help them get over the symptoms they suffered. He had a lot of experience with doing that, and he was unable to make any of it go away. Pretty damning actual history in terms of the usual load of bs sprayed on hypnosis by the debunkers. Now please don't nobody jump on that with the usual round of stuff about bad hypnotists. Of course there are bad hypnotists, just like there are bad plumbers. I'll keep my indoor plumbing in spite of the bad plumbers, thank you.

 

[Cailean]

I heard that from another source too. Can't remember where, but I'd love to hear more.

 

[Jonah]

Like, was Barney seeing the small beings as Nazis or just the one being? For instance, Barney kept saying the eyes the eyes during the hypnotic session.

Did the beings, represent evil in the eyes of Barney? Nazi/evil?

It's an interesting question you ask. As I recall, it was the one who seemed to control Barney as he looked through the binoculars. The Leader ? The others, IIRC, were described as shorter and "oriental" in apearance. It is a fact that Betty recalled two distinct types of entities, the Leader, a taller browned skinned type (think Communion cover with a leather cap and you have Barneys "Nazi") and a shorter, more numerous worker type. However, this idea was downplayed both by Dr. Simon and Barney (again, IIRC) due to I don't know why. Fear?

I guess one type was bad enough. The implication that disparate species were working together somehow may have been to much. Like there wasn't too much already. I've mentioned before the ramifications of the Star Map and it's "Trading Routes" (if reality based) in a prior thread.

But to your question, I think one of the most profound aspects of this particular passage in 'The Interrupted Journey' relates to Barney's absolute terror as he's glassing the craft and realizing what he's truly seeing. Then, he becames eerily calm and simply utters:

"Heh, heh, Betty. That's the funniest thing, Betty. They funniest thing. I never believed in flying saucers but - I don't know. Mighty mysterious. Yeah, well, I guess I won't say anything to anybody about this. It's too ridiculous, isn't it? Oh yes, really funny. Wonder where they came from? Oh gee, I wish I had the - I wish I had gone with them . . ."

Dr. Simon ask Barney "You wish you had gone with them?"

Yes. Oh what an experience to go to some distant planet. (A pause as he reflects, then Maybe this will prove the existence of God. (Another brief pause.) Isn't that funny? To look for the existence of God on another planet?"

It's a strange passage and can be read one of several ways. Either they are evil, and MC'd Barney into thinking something else, which does make them evil -or- Barney just became philosophical in that particular moment of terror by chance -or- maybe this will prove the existence of God? I'm sure there are other ways to read it but those are the first that come to mind.

Not sure if that answers your question. May I suggest you read "The Interrupted Journey" (and pick up 'Incident at Exeter' in the bargain). If the subject interest you, you won't regret it.

 

[Kieran]

I have not read any of the books mentioned. I have read, about the case online for two days and find many problems with the official story.Now before i start, i indeed do believe they had an encounter with something/unknown.

Barney said, when he first saw the beings they looked Humanoid, and he said the UFO had windows were he observed 8 to 12 beings, the number vary's in different websites some say 7 to 11 beings were seen by Barney. Barney gave many different descriptions of the beings and they became different in appearance during the hypnotic regression.

Now, i listened to the transcripts of what Barney said before the hypnotic regression. First Barney said they looked like Irishmen with red hair, and this frightened Barney because he believed Irishmen were not so friendly to black people. It was his opinion and it surprised him that they seemed so friendly. Then later he described Beings that looked like Nazis with shiny black uniforms and black caps. Then it changed again under the hypnotic regression and we got the Grey being. Now if people do not find this odd, the way the descriptions have changed over time then i give up.

Now the language of the beings, they communicated by their minds to Betty and Barney and gave them instructions. They also spoke English, at certain stages of the encounter to Betty and Barney. It was broken and according to Betty they found it hard to communicate in English' :remains me of myself a little joke there. The last language was a foreign language which Betty could not understand.We have three different type's of communication here during this encounter.

I have other issues with the story, but the post would take too long to write up like e.g the 'Star Map', and the 'dentures' in Barney mouth, which seem to have surprised the beings "when Betty" had no such thing in her mouth.I found problems here too, when i get time i will come back to.

 

[KEROUAC]

The Nazi connection reminded me of this thread https://www.theparacast.com/forum/s...ive-ufo-photos-over-eastern-europe-t5172.html where lots of UFOs pictured over Germany in the 20's and 30's.

 

[Kieran]

The Nazi connection reminded me of this thread https://www.theparacast.com/forum/s...ive-ufo-photos-over-eastern-europe-t5172.html where lots of UFOs pictured over Germany in the 20's and 30's.

Interesting videos, i don't see any connection with Nazis and the UFOs. Of course, We all no Hitler and his evil band of followers believed in the occult.


Also, Hitler and his followers, blamed everything on the Jews, the loss of the war and the economic ruin of the German economy, after the First World War and Economic Depression of 1929. A silly belief system, which ended over eight million Jewish lives during the second world war.We are all human at the end of the day.I think hate has no purpose.

I have read things on online, that this Nordic type beings are like the Nazi "blond master race" which Hitler wanted to create. In my opinion and it only my opinion. I think the Nordics are race of beings described in folklore and myths going back thousands of years. They are not created by the Nazis. I have read some very silly stuff online. Where this was suggested. In some cases with Nordics are seen. Different races are seen with different skin and hair Color, and all humanoid.

 

[conor]

But to your question, I think one of the most profound aspects of this particular passage in 'The Interrupted Journey' relates to Barney's absolute terror as he's glassing the craft and realizing what he's truly seeing. Then, he becames eerily calm and simply utters:

"Heh, heh, Betty. That's the funniest thing, Betty. They funniest thing. I never believed in flying saucers but - I don't know. Mighty mysterious. Yeah, well, I guess I won't say anything to anybody about this. It's too ridiculous, isn't it? Oh yes, really funny. Wonder where they came from? Oh gee, I wish I had the - I wish I had gone with them . . ."

Dr. Simon ask Barney "You wish you had gone with them?"

Yes. Oh what an experience to go to some distant planet. (A pause as he reflects, then Maybe this will prove the existence of God. (Another brief pause.) Isn't that funny? To look for the existence of God on another planet?"

It's a strange passage and can be read one of several ways. Either they are evil, and MC'd Barney into thinking something else, which does make them evil -or- Barney just became philosophical in that particular moment of terror by chance -or- maybe this will prove the existence of God? I'm sure there are other ways to read it but those are the first that come to mind.

Not sure if that answers your question. May I suggest you read "The Interrupted Journey" (and pick up 'Incident at Exeter' in the bargain). If the subject interest you, you won't regret it.

That's a really interesting passage, one that I've never heard before. Cheers! Kind of brings to mind the spiritual component of UFOs. Vallee has commented on it, but it's something which the nuts and bolters try to downplay.

 

[Bixyboo]

The Greys dressing like Nazi's is no stranger than seeing a Shadow being wearing a fedora!? It really messes with the mind, lemme tellya! I can't figure out WHY something like ET's (and ghosts/shadow beings) would be (in this case) wearing such incongruous things....

 

[MrChud]

The Greys dressing like Nazi's is no stranger than seeing a Shadow being wearing a fedora!? It really messes with the mind, lemme tellya! I can't figure out WHY something like ET's (and ghosts/shadow beings) would be (in this case) wearing such incongruous things....

I would agree with you, thats why I think most of this phenomena originates from the human mind and would explain such nonsensical things.
That doesn't make it any less fascinating though, it's still a mystery to be solved and worthy of study. IMO of course.

 

[conor]

I would agree with you, thats why I think most of this phenomena originates from the human mind and would explain such nonsensical things.
That doesn't make it any less fascinating though, it's still a mystery to be solved and worthy of study. IMO of course.

I would speculate that it interacts with the human mind rather than originates with it, realising itself as deep psychological archetypes. But still something happened, interactive or not, outside the boundary of the mind. In other words, there is a physical reality to these things as well.

The interesting thing about ufos is that they seem to blend the realm of the mind and the physical world together in a weird fusion of the real world and the dreams and nightmares of people en masse and at an individual level. So, the craft from another world is a collective impression which has come to be a symbol of the unknown. This symbol then physically manifests through some weird form of energy, or on some greater level of reality, and it manifests itself as something which people en masse expect from the unknown - aliens, other worlds.

So, what are we dealing with here? The collective unconsciousness physically manifesting? Maybe. But remember that these things do things to people, and they can alter people's perceptions in many different ways. So perhaps we are dealing with beings which use our own archetypes, hopes and fears, to mask their true intent. Perhaps they do this so as not to alarm us. Perhaps the truth of their existence (how they are, and what they are) would be so devastating to us that they have chosen to prepare us for contact in subtle ways which we cannot fathom. Perhaps we are dealing with some kind of formless energy, some where between the mind and the physical, which interacts with consciousness in this way. Perhaps we are dealing with time travellers with some wierd agenda which may tie in with something else I have touched upon.

I am convinced that the mind is a component in ufo sightings. but how much of a component, well I'm not that sure of that, but because the mind isn't the only component, I would hestitate to say that these manifestations are completely generated by the mind. UFOs are rare occurances, and people don't see leprichauns manifest in front of them if they think of them. Perhaps ufos are a type of mind/matter manifestation which happens due to some outside instigator, or force, of some description.

Are we talking about a whole different way of viewing humanity and it's mind, or perhaps is some kind of outside intelligence at work, a kind of trickster, but perhaps a serious one which knows what it is doing and is doing it intently, for the good or ill?

 

[Bixyboo]

Well I wouldn't disagree, if I myself had seen this, but when TWO people see the exact same thing in the room at the same time....kinda makes ya wonder....but I'm still open to the possibility of it applying in that case....

 

[Jonah]

On page 272 - 274 of "The Interrupted Journey", this exchange occurs in which Betty describes the "leader and the "examiners" interest in the color of the Hills skin.

Dr. Simon: Why this unusual interest in your skin? Do you have any thoughts about it?

Betty: No. I don't.

Dr. Simon: Do you think it might be because your skin and Barney's were of a different color?

Betty: I don't know, but I think they were interested because their skin and mine were different.

Dr. Simon: In what way different?

Betty: In color

Dr. Simon: What was the color of their skin? Were they different, these men examining you?

Betty: The Leader and Examiner were more alike.

Dr. Simon: In what way?

Betty: They looked taller than the crew members.

Dr. Simon: That's all?

Betty: They were taller and there skin was a different color.

Dr. Simon: Well, what was the difference in color? What was the color of the crewmembers skin?

Betty: Uh--

Dr. Simon: Why do you have so much trouble telling me the difference?

Betty:Because I keep thinking the crewmembers are Oriental, Asiatic. Only because they were not as---they're short.

Dr. Simon: And the leader is not short?

Betty: He's more, the Leader and the Examiner are taller. They're about as tall as I am.

Dr. Simon: You mean the crewmembers are much shorter than you?

Betty: The crewmembers are shorter.

Dr. Simon: How much shorter?

Betty: I'd say they were not -uh - five feet. I think the leader is about as tall as I am.

Dr. Simon: You were afraid of these people?

Betty: I wasn't afraid of the Leader. I was at first, but I wasn't afterward.


In this passage, Betty makes a definite distinction between the Leader and the Examiner and the rest of the crew. Both in skin color and in physical stature. And if the Leader and the Examiner did not appear "Oriental", as Betty described, then what did they look like? Barney provides a description early on in the encounter. These passages can be found on pages 89-92. I include here only the descriptive questions and answers.

Dr. Simon: Your clear now, relaxed.

Barney: It's still there.

(As if an idea stikes him) If I let my binoculars fall and dangle from my neck-- and start over again, maybe it won't be there.

(Resigned, as he seems to go through this maneuver, a magical defense ritual, like crossing his fingers. )

But it is.

(Now with incredulity.) Why? What do they want? What do they want? One person looks friendly to me. He's friendly looking. And he's looking at me...over his right shoulder. And he's smiling. But...but...

Dr. Simon: Could you see him clearly?

Barney: Yes, I could.

Dr. Simon: What was his face like?

Barney: It was round.

( Pauses for a moment, then : ) I think of--Ithink of--- A red-headed Irishman. I dont' know why.

( Another pause, then: ) I think I know why. Because I rish are usually hostile to Negroes. And when I see a friendly Irish person, I react to him by thinking--I will be friendly. And I think the one looking over his shoulder is friendly.

Dr. Simon: You say looking over his shoulder. Was he facing away from you?

Barney: Yes. He was facing a wall.

Dr. Simon: You saw him through this window? You said there was a row of windows?

Barney: (He takes care to be extremely precise.) There was a row of windows. A huge row of windows. Only divided by struts - or structures that prevented it from being one solid window. Or then---it would have been one solid window. And the evil face on the---

( He starts to say Leader.) He looks like a German Nazi. He's a Nazi.
( There is a questioning tone in his voice.)

Dr. Simon: He's a Nazi. did he have on a uniform?

Barney: Yes

Dr. Simon: What kind of uniform?

Barney: ( With a small amount of surprise.) He had a black scarf around his neck, dangling over his left shoulder.

Dr. Simon: ( Another sharp probe.) How could you see the figures so clearly at that distance?

Barney: I was looking at them with binoculars.

Dr. Simon: Oh. Did they have faces like other people? You said one was like a red-headed Irishman.

Barney: ( Describing the scene very slowly and carefully.) His eyes were slanted. Oh-- his eyes were slanted!. But not like a Chinese-- Oh. Oh.

Dr. Simon: What was Betty doing all this time?

Barney: I can't hear her.

Dr. Simon: Did you make an outcry to her like you did to me?

Barney: I-I can't remember--I don't know.

Dr. Simon: You would remember if you did.

Barney: ( His thoughts seem to be on the craft, and not on the Doctor.) I did not. I know this creature is telling me something.

Dr. Simon: Telling you something? How? How is it getting to you?

Barney: I can see it in his face. No, his lips are not moving.

Dr. Simon: Go on. He's telling you something. What did he tell you?

Barney: Stay there--and just keep looking. Just keep looking--and stay there. and just keep looking. Just keep looking.

Dr. Simon: Could you hear him tell you?

Barney: Oh! I got the binoculars away from my eyes. 'Cause if I don't, I'll just stand there.

Dr. Simon: Did you hear him tell you this?

Barney: Oh, no. He didn't say it. ( More tremor in his voice. )

Dr. Simon: You felt he said it?

Barney: I know.

Dr. Simon: You know he said it?

Barney: Yes. "Just stay there", he said.

( Now his voice breaks in extreme terror. ) It's pounding in my head!!

( He screams again. ) I gotta get away, I gotta get away from here!

Dr. Simon: All right. All right. calm down.

Barney: ( Still breathless. ) Gotta get away.

Dr. Simon: Calm down. How can you be sure he was telling you this?

Barney: ( He speaks now with awe.) His eyes! . His eyes. . I've never seen eyes like that.

Dr. Simon: You said they were friendly.

Barney: Not the Leader's. I said the one looking over his shoulder.

Dr. Simon: How did you know the other one was the Leader.

Barney: ( In careful level tones again. ) Because everybody moved - everybody was standing there looking at me. But everybody moved. These levers that were in the back....or they went to a big board, it looked like a board. And only this one, with the black, black shiny jacket and the scarf stayed at the window.

-------------------------

It's important to understand that the discrepancy in the description of the beings the Hills encountered is basically because their were two different types involved and working together. At least that's how I read it.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

It has been a while, and my memory ain't what it used to be, but the recent book by Friedman and Betty's niece has a lot of information about the hypnosis sessions, and some clarification of what was reported in Fowler's book. Fowler took considerable liberty with some things, it seems, and the results caused confusion. Some of that was caused by Dr. Simon's refusal to allow certain things to be revealed, if memory serves. Anyway, as good as the Fowler book is and as conscientious as he seems to have been, no study of the Hill case is complete without reading the recent book. Much of what came before was confusing and contradictory, for a variety of reasons. Since the recent book was written after Betty had passed on, and written by people who knew her well, there is a wealth of information that has never been published. The authors have dealt with some of Betty's quirks frankly and sensibly. I'll see if I still have my copy, but anyone with more than a passing interest in the case should hunt up a copy for themselves.

Fowler's book is obviously incomplete, and apparently inaccurate at least in regard to details of the hypnosis sessions.

 

[Kieran]

On page 272 - 274 of "The Interrupted Journey", this exchange occurs in which Betty describes the "leader and the "examiners" interest in the color of the Hills skin.

Dr. Simon: Why this unusual interest in your skin? Do you have any thoughts about it?

Betty: No. I don't.

Dr. Simon: Do you think it might be because your skin and Barney's were of a different color?

Betty: I don't know, but I think they were interested because their skin and mine were different.

Dr. Simon: In what way different?

Betty: In color

Dr. Simon: What was the color of their skin? Were they different, these men examining you?

Betty: The Leader and Examiner were more alike.

Dr. Simon: In what way?

Betty: They looked taller than the crew members.

Dr. Simon: That's all?

Betty: They were taller and there skin was a different color.

Dr. Simon: Well, what was the difference in color? What was the color of the crewmembers skin?

Betty: Uh--

Dr. Simon: Why do you have so much trouble telling me the difference?

Betty:Because I keep thinking the crewmembers are Oriental, Asiatic. Only because they were not as---they're short.

Dr. Simon: And the leader is not short?

Betty: He's more, the Leader and the Examiner are taller. They're about as tall as I am.

Dr. Simon: You mean the crewmembers are much shorter than you?

Betty: The crewmembers are shorter.

Dr. Simon: How much shorter?

Betty: I'd say they were not -uh - five feet. I think the leader is about as tall as I am.

Dr. Simon: You were afraid of these people?

Betty: I wasn't afraid of the Leader. I was at first, but I wasn't afterward.


In this passage, Betty makes a definite distinction between the Leader and the Examiner and the rest of the crew. Both in skin color and in physical stature. And if the Leader and the Examiner did not appear "Oriental", as Betty described, then what did they look like? Barney provides a description early on in the encounter. These passages can be found on pages 89-92. I include here only the descriptive questions and answers.

Dr. Simon: Your clear now, relaxed.

Barney: It's still there.

(As if an idea stikes him) If I let my binoculars fall and dangle from my neck-- and start over again, maybe it won't be there.

(Resigned, as he seems to go through this maneuver, a magical defense ritual, like crossing his fingers. )

But it is.

(Now with incredulity.) Why? What do they want? What do they want? One person looks friendly to me. He's friendly looking. And he's looking at me...over his right shoulder. And he's smiling. But...but...

Dr. Simon: Could you see him clearly?

Barney: Yes, I could.

Dr. Simon: What was his face like?

Barney: It was round.

( Pauses for a moment, then : ) I think of--Ithink of--- A red-headed Irishman. I dont' know why.

( Another pause, then: ) I think I know why. Because I rish are usually hostile to Negroes. And when I see a friendly Irish person, I react to him by thinking--I will be friendly. And I think the one looking over his shoulder is friendly.

Dr. Simon: You say looking over his shoulder. Was he facing away from you?

Barney: Yes. He was facing a wall.

Dr. Simon: You saw him through this window? You said there was a row of windows?

Barney: (He takes care to be extremely precise.) There was a row of windows. A huge row of windows. Only divided by struts - or structures that prevented it from being one solid window. Or then---it would have been one solid window. And the evil face on the---

( He starts to say Leader.) He looks like a German Nazi. He's a Nazi.
( There is a questioning tone in his voice.)

Dr. Simon: He's a Nazi. did he have on a uniform?

Barney: Yes

Dr. Simon: What kind of uniform?

Barney: ( With a small amount of surprise.) He had a black scarf around his neck, dangling over his left shoulder.

Dr. Simon: ( Another sharp probe.) How could you see the figures so clearly at that distance?

Barney: I was looking at them with binoculars.

Dr. Simon: Oh. Did they have faces like other people? You said one was like a red-headed Irishman.

Barney: ( Describing the scene very slowly and carefully.) His eyes were slanted. Oh-- his eyes were slanted!. But not like a Chinese-- Oh. Oh.

Dr. Simon: What was Betty doing all this time?

Barney: I can't hear her.

Dr. Simon: Did you make an outcry to her like you did to me?

Barney: I-I can't remember--I don't know.

Dr. Simon: You would remember if you did.

Barney: ( His thoughts seem to be on the craft, and not on the Doctor.) I did not. I know this creature is telling me something.

Dr. Simon: Telling you something? How? How is it getting to you?

Barney: I can see it in his face. No, his lips are not moving.

Dr. Simon: Go on. He's telling you something. What did he tell you?

Barney: Stay there--and just keep looking. Just keep looking--and stay there. and just keep looking. Just keep looking.

Dr. Simon: Could you hear him tell you?

Barney: Oh! I got the binoculars away from my eyes. 'Cause if I don't, I'll just stand there.

Dr. Simon: Did you hear him tell you this?

Barney: Oh, no. He didn't say it. ( More tremor in his voice. )

Dr. Simon: You felt he said it?

Barney: I know.

Dr. Simon: You know he said it?

Barney: Yes. "Just stay there", he said.

( Now his voice breaks in extreme terror. ) It's pounding in my head!!

( He screams again. ) I gotta get away, I gotta get away from here!

Dr. Simon: All right. All right. calm down.

Barney: ( Still breathless. ) Gotta get away.

Dr. Simon: Calm down. How can you be sure he was telling you this?

Barney: ( He speaks now with awe.) His eyes! . His eyes. . I've never seen eyes like that.

Dr. Simon: You said they were friendly.

Barney: Not the Leader's. I said the one looking over his shoulder.

Dr. Simon: How did you know the other one was the Leader.

Barney: ( In careful level tones again. ) Because everybody moved - everybody was standing there looking at me. But everybody moved. These levers that were in the back....or they went to a big board, it looked like a board. And only this one, with the black, black shiny jacket and the scarf stayed at the window.

-------------------------

It's important to understand that the discrepancy in the description of the beings the Hills encountered is basically because their were two different types involved and working together. At least that's how I read it.

Thanks Jonah for your post. It seems indeed, we have two different type of beings in the Hill's encounter, and i was wondering "why" i had never heard Stanton Friedman, mention this before, in any interview "he has done.Your post, has answered some questions for me 'thanks.

By reading the case's of Travis Walton and the Hill's. It seems to me at least either we have two type of beings working with each other, or deception is happening in the Hill's case where this beings are "masking their true identity" with some false memories. 'Messengers of Deception' Interesting, makes you think!. I think, Jacques Vallee, could be right on the money with his theories.