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August 27, 2017 — Don Ecker with J. Randall Murphy

Discussion in 'Talk About the Show' started by Gene Steinberg, Aug 27, 2017.



  1. Gene Steinberg

    Gene Steinberg Forum Super Hero Staff Member

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    In his usual take-no-prisoners fashion, UFO curmudgeon Don Ecker was busy talking about the discredited characters in the UFO field, including two that got themselves convicted of crimes.

    Is there a hope for UFO research?

    We barely got started when the show ended, so we invited Don and Randal back to discuss more stuff for this weekend's episode of After The Paracast.

    After The Paracast is an exclusive feature of The Paracast+. Check here for more information about our subscription service:

    Introducing The Paracast+ | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio
     
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  2. wwkirk

    wwkirk Paranormal Adept

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    It was a joy hearing Don on the Paracast. I hope the judge throws the book at Morton.

    There are still many people defending Romanek, saying he was probably set up. But I don't know why that would be; he's not important enough.

    As for Travis Walton, several people saw the craft and saw he get knocked out by it. They went back to find him and he was gone. To me, it's then plausible that he was taken on board that craft as he testifies.
     
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  3. Existential

    Existential Paranormal Adept

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    Ecker likes to tell the same stories each appearance.
     
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  4. Gene Steinberg

    Gene Steinberg Forum Super Hero Staff Member

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    He hasn't talked about Morton before.

    Judge has already thrown the book at Morton, so it'll just be a bigger book.

    As to Walton, our discussion on After The Paracast is the best argument, yet, for signing up. We've had some great episodes in recent months. It's not just me and Chris talking shop or pop culture.

    Coming up this week: Jacques Vallee.
     
  5. Decker

    Decker Administrator Staff Member

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    Hmm, well dude .. ya get what ya pay for. How much did ya pay to hear the show?

    Decker
     
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  6. SheaOlmsford

    SheaOlmsford Paranormal Adept

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    Gene, you need to come up with a devious secret plot to entrance Don Ecker to join the Paracast team on a regular basis. I stayed wide awake for the entire episode, which at my age is an accomplishment. LOL
     
  7. Christopher O'Brien

    Christopher O'Brien Informed Anomalist Staff Member

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    Why do you bother to listen, almost every post you've made here (and I looked) consists of whining, complaining, bitching or some other negative reaction to guests or opinions. Why even bother, mate? Perhaps if you made an attempt to add something positive to conversation/threads you might not come across as so, umm, how would one put it? How about 'hemorrhoidal?' Yeah, that works... :confused:
     
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  8. SheaOlmsford

    SheaOlmsford Paranormal Adept

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    Hey, Don Ecker, is KGRA now faithfully providing archived copies of the shows for those who can't listen LIVE? I was a member a few years ago, and Mr. Hobbes never seemed to update the archives, which is what I was paying for. So I left. I am willing to take a ride on the wild side again if the promises are being kept nowadays.
     
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  9. ChrisJohnsen

    ChrisJohnsen Paranormal Adept

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    I've listened to the main show twice today. Don Ecker is always a lively and enjoyable raconteur. His appearances are frequently my favorite episodes. He provides a valuable public service by unequivocally calling out the frauds and hoaxers. I am just gutted that I wasn't able to participate in this show!

    Chris mentioning Greg Bishop's new mantra "Do Not Engage," and Randall's subsequent observation that people's beliefs aren't rational but are almost totally emotionally-driven was spot-on. We only need look at our current political climate for definitive proof. On a related note, it also smacks of "Confirmation Bias."

    The Misconception: Your opinions are the result of years of rational, objective analysis.
    The Truth: Your opinions are the result of years of paying attention to information which confirmed what you believed while ignoring information which challenged your preconceived notions.​

    There was a fair amount of talk about "debates" on the show. I don't know how realistic this suggestion is but it would be fantastic if occasional future episodes of The Paracast, or maybe the more free-wheeling, uncensored After The Paracast, would feature two (or more) qualified guests that would debate some of the more hot-button or disputed issues in the UFO and/or paranormal fields. Other podcasts I listen to have occasionally featured episodes where multiple guests have an informed, respectful debate on controversial UFO, paranormal or "alternative history" topics. I realize that many guests might be reluctant to defend their research, positions and beliefs in a public forum but anyone that operates with intellectual honesty should be willing to step into the arena and vigorously defend their ideas. Again, I understand it is easier said than done to book those type of guests but it would make for an interesting and educational show. For me, it ties in to what Chris O'Brien was saying about the futility of changing people's minds (so do not engage), it's almost impossible to achieve that by just talking at someone from one side, but listening to a well-argued debate can, in some cases, be persuasive. Hearing a "point/counter-point" discussion is often very illuminating. Often I'll listen to a guest or a speaker and think, based on my limited knowledge or understanding of the subject being discussed, that the person makes a lot of sense, and then I'll see follow-up comments in the forum expressing differing interpretations, or opposing information, that gives me a more informed understanding of the topic that was initially discussed, which ultimately may give me a completely different take-away than my early understanding from the original discussion.

    I must also admit, my self-aware personal bias definitely leans towards "I want to believe," and the subsequent viewpoints that generally entails, though in large part thanks to The Paracast I am no longer the ETH proponent I was 10 years ago, and I sometimes get frustrated at Randall's dogged pragmatism and level-headed skepticism, but if I am being completely honest, I appreciate his approach, regardless of whether I always agree with him or not, because it makes me a better thinker about the subjects discussed and keeps me intellectually honest by making me frequently check and acknowledge my own existing biases.
     
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  10. wwkirk

    wwkirk Paranormal Adept

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    Dark Matters Radio | KGRA-dB Archives
     
  11. Decker

    Decker Administrator Staff Member

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    wwkirk, thank you. I was going to post it when I just saw the request but you beat me to it. To Chris Johnsen: these are free downloads .. no fee of any kind. I do not get a salary and by God if I can do it with no recompense ... you or anybody else should NEVER have to pay.

    Decker
     
  12. Walter Bosley

    Walter Bosley Paranormal Adept

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    And we still like to hear them. :)
     
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  13. Usual Suspect

    Usual Suspect USI Calgary

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    I'm going to go easier on this comment because essentially it's a fair observation. However like Gene was saying, we need to reiterate this stuff from time to time because nobody else with the reach that The Paracast has bothers to do it, and Don does a pretty good job of telling the stories and has been instrumental in helping to bring these issues to light.

    That being said, if I'm invited back again, I hope to be able to focus more on the progressive and positive side of ufology. I really don't like trashing the field all the time, and was somewhat uncomfortable being backed into a corner where I felt that because I'd gone and opened my big mouth, I had to participate in dishing out some of the dirt :oops:, so I hope that my comments were taken in the spirit they were intended.

    Is there something you'd like to see the show focus on in the future that would help make a more positive impression on you? If so I'll try to work it in in the future ( if I get the opportunity ). Thanks for listening!
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
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  14. Usual Suspect

    Usual Suspect USI Calgary

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    Great post Chris and good suggestions too! The ATP for this episode includes some fairly lively point-counterpoint that you might enjoy, and it was a real pleasure to be on with Gene and Chris and Don at the same time. Thanks for your honest and constructive comments :cool: .
     
  15. Usual Suspect

    Usual Suspect USI Calgary

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    There's what's plausible and then there's what's reasonable, and that can vary depending on the various opinions and feelings about the issue in question. So while I agree that it's entirely within the realm of plausibility that an alien craft came down, zapped Walton and whisked him away for a few days, circumstances cast serious doubt on the story:
    1. Not all lie detector tests of the witnesses were conclusive and although those who did pass may have been answering truthfully, it's also possible they were misperceiving the situation.
    2. Two independent lie detector tests indicated deception by Walton: Travis Walton and the polygraphs
    3. The tests Walton passed only contained questions preapproved by him.
    4. Walton and Charles Rogers ( the younger brother of one of the people on the woodcutting crew ) had earlier been convicted of first degree ( intentionally planned ) burglary and forgery.
    5. None of the witnesses saw Walton board the alleged craft, so the other witness testimony has no bearing on that aspect of the story.
    6. An investigation of the scene revealed nothing unusual.
    7. A medical exam of Walton after he turned up showed no signs of injury or undue stress.
    8. Not all the stories match-up as much as is often claimed. To quote from a taped interview by Klass: Bad UFOs: Skepticism, UFOs, and The Universe: Travis Walton vs. Philip J. Klass
      • Klass: What did you see?
      • Pierce: Uh, well, I thought it was something a deer hunter, you know, rigged up. You know, 'cause it was deer season, you know, so he could see. You know? And, uh, and, but I couldn't see the bottom or a top or sides, all's I could see was the front of it, you know. You couldn't tell if it had a bottom to it or, you know, or a back to it or anything...
    9. A hostile witness believed to be the nephew of the Sherriff claims he knows where Walton really was: UFO Media Matters: Sherrif’s nephew claims Travis Walton Hoax well known?
    10. NICAP didn't believe the story and for @Decker, this PDF reveals that the source of the criminal convictions came from Walton himself: http://debunker.com/historical/KlassContraWalton.pdf
    11. CUFOS didn't buy into the story.
    12. Ground Saucer Watch had reservations.
    13. APRO initially took a pro Walton position but it came out that they had also suppressed contradictory evidence.
    14. Then there's the motive, which was up to $100,000 for rights to the story.
    I could continue to go on with other bits and pieces, but seriously, by this point should that really be necessary? The story has some very serious flaws and given that the weight of evidence basically comes down to the credibility of the witnesses, IMO there's not really much to go on there. Any reasonably objective ufologist should be able to recognize that, and whether or not Klass was a meanie and a debunker doesn't really have much of a bearing on the situation. The best con-men are personable and believable, which is why they get away with it. I'm not saying either way that Walton is among them, just that people deserve to have a more complete picture when trying to make up their own minds.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  16. blowfish

    blowfish Whittingham

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    Always thought if they (whatever they are) would not bring the individual back if it was covert as the story goes. During World War Two or the Cold War, they never came back if they were special to those in charge taken that is humans, not ET? by Russians or Chinese. So why would off world intelligence be any different.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
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  17. Usual Suspect

    Usual Suspect USI Calgary

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    I dunno. One of the theories by those who believe Walton was actually abducted is that it wasn't really a classic abduction, but sort of a stupid move by Walton who naïvely assumed the aliens would be friendly and perhaps take him for a ride, and in his excitement he was inadvertently injured by the craft, so the aliens, presumably feeling bad for him, took him aboard to tend to his wounds and then later released him.
     
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  18. blowfish

    blowfish Whittingham

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    Yes in a way you answered the dilemma humans very plausible and very disturbing if it was foreign or domestic. However, the ETH equation does not add up unless there were radar evidence and other written statements from outside the case at the same time period near the location on those dates from military /police officers?
     
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  19. Decker

    Decker Administrator Staff Member

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    As far as Walton is concerned, I was not there nor were any of you. I mentioned Tracy Torme and his research into the Walton incident. According to Tracy there were some medical oddities that popped up when Walton was examined, something about his blood if I recall. However I am somewhat on the fence with the Walton case, I do think something happened to him .. but that is as far as I will go.

    What I said about Klass ... STANDS. After my many and numerous encounters with him over the years .. when it came to the topic of UFOs ... if Phil Klass told me the Sun rises in the morning and the Moon comes out at night ... I would have gone outside and looked. And until he got too old to participate in the field Klass got worse .. not better. There it is ...

    Decker
     
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  20. Usual Suspect

    Usual Suspect USI Calgary

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    If a couple of credible and independent witnesses had seen the same event from another vantage point, then that would be far better corroboration. Other sightings around the area may or may not have anything to do with Walton's experience, so without more evidence about them, it doesn't seem wise to me that we should jump to the conclusion that the other sightings are directly connected.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
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