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Area 51


Rick Deckard

Paranormal Maven
In the last show (March 18 2007) Rob Fitzgerald made a comment about activities in Area 51 being "beyond your wildest imagination" (might not be the actual words, I'm paraphrasing slightly).

My question is, why does Area 51 get so much attention? As far as I can tell, there is *no* evidence to support any 'weird' stuff going on there.

It's just a base for developing and testing the latest military air craft, is it not?

I have read Bob Lazaars (sp?) info, watched the 'alien' interview, watched the 'hovering lights' over the base (which are pretty unremarkable, actually), heard accounts of the 'extreme' security measures etc, but none of it convinces me that there's anything more to it than conventional 'military secrets'.

What does everyone else believe?
 
Many tall tales exist, to be sure. I find speculation about what actually goes on at Area 51 to be a waste of time, really. It's a top secret military research facility. That's probably the only concrete thing we're ever going to know about it.
 
Rick Deckard said:
watched the 'hovering lights' over the base (which are pretty unremarkable, actually),


Here we go... What is unremarkable about those lights? You must be referring to the same amateur footage I watched years ago, with disk-shaped objects spiralling over A51. I have no idea what the objects are (I can guess), but I have not seen any officially recognised craft that can execute those kind of manoeuvres. The Air Force has flying saucers? Great! Let's hear more about them.

The DoD won't admit to the existence of A51. It is so secret that nobody knows anything about it. Top secret. Except for Google, of course.

37°14'36.52"N,115°48'41.15"W
 
musictomyears said:
Here we go... What is unremarkable about those lights? You must be referring to the same amateur footage I watched years ago, with disk-shaped objects spiralling over A51.

Well, I can only go on what *I've* seen - if you have a link for the footage that *you've* seen then I'd be interested to see it.

If the US airforce do have 'flying saucers' then we will get to see them eventually...
 
If I remember correctly, the video was called "UFOs - The American Evidence". I can't check that out right now, because I haven't got the tape here. Is that what you also saw? I guess the same clips were used in many different productions. Basically, it shows a group of people, facing A51, taking photos and making camcorder videos. Right behind them, across the valley, can one see disk-shaped objects executing pretty radical flight manoeuvres.
 
No, the only Area 51 'UFO' footage I've seen is that of a single flickering light 'hovering', over some mountains - I think the footage was taken at night, using a night-vision camera from a distance of about 20 miles. Could have been anything.
 
Rick Deckard said:
In the last show (March 18 2007) Rob Fitzgerald made a comment about activities in Area 51 being "beyond your wildest imagination" (might not be the actual words, I'm paraphrasing slightly).

My question is, why does Area 51 get so much attention? As far as I can tell, there is *no* evidence to support any 'weird' stuff going on there.

Some pay attention and want to bring attention to Area 51 so that we do get the evidence if it's there.

On the other hand, since when do people actually need evidence for what they give attention to? Religions are quite common after all.


It's just a base for developing and testing the latest military air craft, is it not?

I don't know.

I have read Bob Lazaars (sp?) info, watched the 'alien' interview, watched the 'hovering lights' over the base (which are pretty unremarkable, actually), heard accounts of the 'extreme' security measures etc, but none of it convinces me that there's anything more to it than conventional 'military secrets'.

What does everyone else believe?

It's Lazar.

Ugh. The alien interview? One of the crappiest hoaxes ever.

I've seen interesting video of ufos (by definition) in and around Area 51. I'm open to the possibility of alien business going on out there, but not convinced.
 
musictomyears said:
The DoD won't admit to the existence of A51.

Well, on January 28 1996, William Perry (Former Secretary of Defence) told Channel 13, Las Vegas, "We do have a military operation going on at Groom Lake. Highly classified and highly important to US security".

The excerpt can be seen in the last minute of this video:

 
A.LeClair said:
On the other hand, since when do people actually need evidence for what they give attention to? Religions are quite common after all.

Well, you won't see me defending religion, but don't religious 'enthusiasts' basically say that the 'evidence' for the existence of God is all around us?
 
Rick Deckard said:
Well, on January 28 1996, William Perry (Former Secretary of Defence) told Channel 13, Las Vegas, "We do have a military operation going on at Groom Lake. Highly classified and highly important to US security".

The excerpt can be seen in the last minute of this video:


The link you posted doesn't seem to be operational. But I think I found the video:


At the time of the interview, Perry was not a sitting DoD official, but already retired. So it appears the DoD, to this day, will not officially acknowledge the existence of A51.
 
musictomyears said:
The link you posted doesn't seem to be operational. But I think I found the video:


At the time of the interview, Perry was not a sitting DoD official, but already retired. So it appears the DoD, to this day, will not officially acknowledge the existence of A51.

Right. Fine. They *must* be hiding aliens then.
 
Rick Deckard said:
Right. Fine. They *must* be hiding aliens then.

Actually... I'll take it all back.

Perry was still Secretary of Defence in 1996, he retired the following year. My bad.

William Perry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, after only 50 years of denial, they finally confirmed its existence? There's nothing like open government, aye.

Yeah, the poor old aliens, they could have picked a nicer place, instead of a desert? How about Ohio, or Florida... They could have helped out with the elections.
 
musictomyears said:
Actually... I'll take it all back.

Perry was still Secretary of Defence in 1996, he retired the following year. My bad.

William Perry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, after only 50 years of denial, they finally confirmed its existence? There's nothing like open government, aye.

Actually, I appreciate your effort to clarify that.

My terse response was prompted by an attitude I find odd but see everywhere - it's the idea that abstract entities such as "DoD" and "the Company" are often talked about as though they exists totally independently of the people that work for them.

Even if Perry was retired when he said that, should we dismiss it? If everyone in the "DoD" admitted 'off the record' that Area 51 is an alien base, should we take no notice and say "well the 'DoD' didn't issue those statements so we can attach no significance to them"?

I'm not attacking anyone in particular, I just find it odd that we often attach certain responsibilities to an abstract concept as though it was some sort of sentient being when the reality is that human beings organise and run such organisations and it is they that are ultimately responsible for the actions of those organisations.

So, in my eyes at least, the 'DoD' has admitted this is the case, even if Perry was retired when he said because he *is* the 'DoD'.

Actually, I'm not sure I want to defend what I just said, but I'll leave it in anyway.
 
Rick Deckard said:
Well, you won't see me defending religion, but don't religious 'enthusiasts' basically say that the 'evidence' for the existence of God is all around us?

The religious people I spoke of are the ones that are not concerned with evidence but faith.

Just as some can interpret a rock as evidence for god, someone could interpret lights in the sky videos as evidence there's 12 aliens working at Area 51, as just one example.
 
A.LeClair said:
The religious people I spoke of are the ones that are not concerned with evidence but faith.

Well, I don't blame them for thinking that way - they have been brought up to believe that by their parents who were also brought up to believe that by their parents who were brought up to believe that....
 
Rick Deckard said:
My terse response was prompted by an attitude I find odd but see everywhere - it's the idea that abstract entities such as "DoD" and "the Company" are often talked about as though they exists totally independently of the people that work for them.

Well, this little episode is a good example for what happens during the course of great many communications via the net, which doesn't allow for non-verbal clues concerning the contents, or full meaning, of a message. If you knew me personally (and I get the feeling that it's a shame you don't), you would know that I never meant to imply such a thing.

What I really was trying to say was, isn't it beyond belief that a government - any government - would deny the existence of an installation the size of Groom Lake? How ridiculous is that? There have been hoards of UFO buffs and photographers all over the neighbourhood, proving beyond doubt that a massive base exists. How could anybody deny that? Why hide behind that tired old "can't confirm or deny" smoke-screen, which makes a mockery of democracy, and all the ideals a country might stand for?
 
Rick Deckard said:
Well, I don't blame them for thinking that way - they have been brought up to believe that by their parents who were also brought up to believe that by their parents who were brought up to believe that....

If the parents are to blame, so is the conditioned individual. They are all doing the same thing after all. Not questioning conditioning. They have that right of course. But to just blame generations is paradoxical. Since the parents were once in the position of the one you would now excuse from responsibility.

We all face conditioning. Some of us use our minds to question it, others use their minds to excuse it. Or more accurately, most, if not all, do both selectively.

I was raised with religious conditioning. I'm not religious now. There's other agents at work. We're not doomed to think like our parents thank *God*:)
 
A.LeClair said:
I was raised with religious conditioning. I'm not religious now. There's other agents at work. We're not doomed to think like our parents thank *God*:)

Did you *have* to pray several times a day? Did you have to perform certain rituals on a daily basis? Did you *have* to fast during certain 'festivals'? Did you *have* to learn religious texts? Did you *have* to chant? Did you *have* to attend religious events? Was any part of your anatomy mutilated?

I think when a whole community measures each other on how closely they follow the 'word of God' I would suggest that it's very difficult to break the parent-to-child 'cycle'.

I don't blame them for thinking that way because it's obvious that who we are and what we believe owes a lot to the environment we were brought up in.

I wonder how many people go through life with no religious beliefs and suddenly start believing?
 
musictomyears said:
Yeah, the poor old aliens, they could have picked a nicer place, instead of a desert? How about Ohio, or Florida... They could have helped out with the elections.

Well, FEC and state investigations demonstrated that nothing remiss happened in Ohio, and if folks in Broward County are too stupid to read a butterfly ballot, I doubt alien intervention will help them.

I don't see anything interesting about Area 51. It's a high-security test site for advanced avionics and aircraft analysis. The government's long-time denial of its existence has purely regulatory motives, and is entirely justified.
 
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