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Are They Really Among Us?

TDSR

Skilled Investigator
Gene- I preordered, and just received a copy of D.W. Pasulka's (PhD in Religious Studies) new non-fiction book "American Cosmic".....fascinating!!! Pasulka is invited into what she describes as "a fight club" for the highest tier of E.T. ufologists and researchers known as "the Invisibles..." made up of highly influential scientists, silicon valley billionaires, and the highest levels of the MIC. I believe Avi Loeb to be a good example to lend credibility of her accounts.

I am going to have a book review at deepspacepod.com when I finish reading, and I cannot remember a book which I would endorse such as this in a very long time.

Looking forward to a great thread on these "Invisibles"
 

GlitteringBadger

Skilled Investigator
Gene- I preordered, and just received a copy of D.W. Pasulka's (PhD in Religious Studies) new non-fiction book "American Cosmic".....fascinating!!! Pasulka is invited into what she describes as "a fight club" for the highest tier of E.T. ufologists and researchers known as "the Invisibles..." made up of highly influential scientists, silicon valley billionaires, and the highest levels of the MIC. I believe Avi Loeb to be a good example to lend credibility of her accounts.

I am going to have a book review at deepspacepod.com when I finish reading, and I cannot remember a book which I would endorse such as this in a very long time.

Looking forward to a great thread on these "Invisibles"
I just got it as well. I’m interested to read it based on what I’ve heard her say in interviews. She was fairly active on Twitter until recently, when she basically disappeared. I’m concerned by how much she seemed to be on board with some of the TTSA/disclosure cheerleader types.

I wonder to what degree she actually encountered “‘a fight club’ for the highest tier of E.T. ufologists and researchers known as ‘the Invisibles..’ and to what degree such a group might be using her as a tool to spread disinformation.

But I’m overly suspicious.
 

urkotic

Hopeful Monster
a proper scientist - definitely a gold standard level. Is he being invited?

btw re: first article - he's only saying that this is a speculation, he's not asserting that it is alien - rather "prove to me that it's not". he's certainly a contrarian amongst his peers.
Yeah, agreed, he's a contrarian and the article reads as though he is enjoying the attention.

I saw another hypothesis (if that can apply here considering we can't really test it) about Oumaumau just today: Oumuamua Could be the Debris Cloud of a Disintegrated Interstellar Comet - Universe Today
 

TDSR

Skilled Investigator
I just got it as well. I’m interested to read it based on what I’ve heard her say in interviews. She was fairly active on Twitter until recently, when she basically disappeared. I’m concerned by how much she seemed to be on board with some of the TTSA/disclosure cheerleader types.

I wonder to what degree she actually encountered “‘a fight club’ for the highest tier of E.T. ufologists and researchers known as ‘the Invisibles..’ and to what degree such a group might be using her as a tool to spread disinformation.

But I’m overly suspicious.
I to am a skeptic first. For me, the book has well-assigned lanes for the concepts and topics, which, if not successful can make it hard to find the thesis so to speak. She also adds more information and content to the narrative than borrowed from. Which is providing me with more to scrutinize and ponder, which I guess is the case I am making for the book. I've been stopping frequently to go look up what she just stated.....for me, that's a good book! I am up for discussing the book in a new thread if others are interested.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
I to am a skeptic first. For me, the book has well-assigned lanes for the concepts and topics, which, if not successful can make it hard to find the thesis so to speak. She also adds more information and content to the narrative than borrowed from. Which is providing me with more to scrutinize and ponder, which I guess is the case I am making for the book. I've been stopping frequently to go look up what she just stated.....for me, that's a good book! I am up for discussing the book in a new thread if others are interested.
Thanks for the reference to American Cosmic. I've sent a message inviting the author on as a guest. She sounds very interesting!

On 'Omuamua: The other explanation ( and seemingly the most reasonable one ) for the object's unexplained acceleration, is that it actually has a propulsion system, but the scientific community seems to be avoiding that conclusion like the plague.
 

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
Thanks for the reference to American Cosmic. I've sent a message inviting the author on as a guest. She sounds very interesting!

On 'Omuamua: The other explanation ( and seemingly the most reasonable one ) for the object's unexplained acceleration, is that it actually has a propulsion system, but the scientific community seems to be avoiding that conclusion like the plague.
I’ve read it. It’s... decent. She makes some good points, has a couple of interesting stories, but at the same time if you’ve read Vallee (as I know you have), then you already know what she’s going to say. Her most interesting point is that she neither believes, nor not believes, she merely accepts the story and seeks to provide meaning from within a religious historian context. The liminal aspect is interesting, but it can be encapsulated in Strieber’s “keep the question open” or O’Brien’s trickster liminality. Or even Bishop’s co-creation hypothesis.

It’s an entertaining read, but it’s far from being a revolutionary take as Strieber and others have claimed. If you talk to her, my request would be to dive specifically into this liminality and metaphorical aspect.
 

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
Regarding ‘Oumuamua, I believe that outgassing is considered to be the most likely cause of the acceleration.


It’s behind a paywall, but here’s the abstract:
The discovery of the first interstellar object passing through the Solar System, 1I/2017 U1 (‘Oumuamua), provoked intense and continuing interest from the scientific community and the general public. The faintness of ‘Oumuamua, together with the limited time window within which observations were possible, constrained the information available on its dynamics and physical state. Here we review our knowledge and find that in all cases, the observations are consistent with a purely natural origin for ‘Oumuamua. We discuss how the observed characteristics of ‘Oumuamua are explained by our extensive knowledge of natural minor bodies in our Solar System and our current knowledge of the evolution of planetary systems. We highlight several areas requiring further investigation.
The acceleration is likely due to radiation pressure from the sun and potentially outgassing, if I remember correctly. Plus, it’s tumbling, so an artifical Newtonian thrust would be astoundingly hard to vector and control. And it wasn’t that large of a delta-V at any rate.

Me, I was rooting for it to be Rama.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
The acceleration is likely due to radiation pressure from the sun and potentially outgassing, if I remember correctly. Plus, it’s tumbling, so an artifical Newtonian thrust would be astoundingly hard to vector and control. And it wasn’t that large of a delta-V at any rate. Me, I was rooting for it to be Rama.
Last time I was looking into the mystery of Omuamua's acceleration out of the solar system, according to one scientist who chimed in, the radiation pressure theory is plausible, but only if the object isn't much more massive than a solar sail, which isn't very likely. Maybe some other cosmic force. Was it far out enough to have hit the electromagnetic highway?

 

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
Given its delta-v is 0.01%, if it is artificial, it’s pretty weak. Like ion propulsion weak. And it’s tumbling, so using ion thrust would be very problematic.

If it were artificial, I’d expect thrust along its long axis for stability, or along its small axis if it were rotating for artificial gravity. It’s doing neither, it’s just tumbling.

 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
Given its delta-v is 0.01%, if it is artificial, it’s pretty weak. Like ion propulsion weak. And it’s tumbling, so using ion thrust would be very problematic.

If it were artificial, I’d expect thrust along its long axis for stability, or along its small axis if it were rotating for artificial gravity. It’s doing neither, it’s just tumbling.

Right. Assuming the mass-to-acceleration ratio requires the object to be as light as a solar sail, then the obvious extrapolation is that it's made of such material, and considering it's shape and tumbling further implies that it has crumpled in on itself. For an engineered object, we can fairly easily imagine a deep-space solar sail probe having some sort of mishap that results in it getting caught-up in its own rigging, which would naturally lead to it tumbling through space. I'm not really sure what other explanation could reasonably account for all the factors. What sort of naturally made object that size, but as strong and light as a solar sail might there be?
 

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
Right. Assuming the mass-to-acceleration ratio requires the object to be as light as a solar sail, then the obvious extrapolation is that it's made of such material, and considering it's shape and tumbling further implies that it has crumpled in on itself. For an engineered object, we can fairly easily imagine a deep-space solar sail probe having some sort of mishap that results in it getting caught-up in its own rigging, which would naturally lead to it tumbling through space. I'm not really sure what other explanation could reasonably account for all the factors. What sort of naturally made object that size, but as strong and light as a solar sail might there be?
The problem as I understand it with the solar sail idea, is that the solar sail would have to be unfurled and not tumbling to provide the acceleration described. It's a cylinder, not a flat plane, and it's acceleration is not perpendicular to it's long axis at any rate.
 

USI Calgary

J. Randall Murphy
Staff member
The problem as I understand it with the solar sail idea, is that the solar sail would have to be unfurled and not tumbling to provide the acceleration described. It's a cylinder, not a flat plane, and it's acceleration is not perpendicular to it's long axis at any rate.
A solar sail is most efficient when it's unfolded in it's proper configuration and orientation, but hypothetically, there's no reason it wouldn't work, albeit less efficiently, if by some accident or malfunction, it were caught-up in it's own wires and rigging, and formed into an elongated shape like Omumamua. In that case, tumbling would actually be advantageous, because there would still always be some effect no matter what the orientation was. In other words, the worst case would be if it weren't tumbling and its horizontal axis were always aligned with the direction of the Sun.

Omumamua's radius is about 100 meters and it's estimated to be up to 1000 meters long. That's a lot of surface area for something as light as solar sail material. It's also about the only way that our science can explain how it could be accelerating. If it were some naturally occurring type of solid space rock, it would be too massive for the acceleration measured. We don't know of any natural processes that could create something with the low mass requirements, but still strong enough not to be torn apart by the tumbling ( like a loose aggregate type asteroid ).

Maybe, and this is my own notion, is that perhaps it,s some sort of space pumice? You know, all filled with holes like an Aero bar, that makes it super light, but also strong. I'm imagining a moon like Europa with underwater volcanoes where pumice forms in lower G and pressure, and is consequentially also much lighter. If a moon like that collided with another similar sized asteroid or moon, I can see how a fragment the size of Omuamua could get thrown off and escape.
 

marduk

quelling chaos since 2352BC
A solar sail is most efficient when it's unfolded in it's proper configuration and orientation, but hypothetically, there's no reason it wouldn't work, albeit less efficiently, if by some accident or malfunction, it were caught-up in it's own wires and rigging, and formed into an elongated shape like Omumamua. In that case, tumbling would actually be advantageous, because there would still always be some effect no matter what the orientation was. In other words, the worst case would be if it weren't tumbling and its horizontal axis were always aligned with the direction of the Sun.

Omumamua's radius is about 100 meters and it's estimated to be up to 1000 meters long. That's a lot of surface area for something as light as solar sail material. It's also about the only way that our science can explain how it could be accelerating. If it were some naturally occurring type of solid space rock, it would be too massive for the acceleration measured. We don't know of any natural processes that could create something with the low mass requirements, but still strong enough not to be torn apart by the tumbling ( like a loose aggregate type asteroid ).
Sorry maybe I misunderstood the articles I read, but I thought the mass: acceleration profile only worked for a solar sail if it was unfurled?

Maybe, and this is my own notion, is that perhaps it,s some sort of space pumice? You know, all filled with holes like an Aero bar, that makes it super light, but also strong. I'm imagining a moon like Europa with underwater volcanoes where pumice forms in lower G and pressure, and is consequentially also much lighter. If a moon like that collided with another similar sized asteroid or moon, I can see how a fragment the size of Omuamua could get thrown off and escape.
That's my guess as well - it could be a low density material that is more easily pushed by small things like radiation pressure or outgassing that's too small to be detected.

I think it would be super cool if it was artificial, it just doesn't have to be artificial to explain what's being observed, so the skeptic in me is winning in this case.
 

blowfish

Whittingham
Who knows and according to eyewitness statements of credible folks anything is possible . I like this quote below from Ariv.org : J.M. Kashyap , S.B. Gudemmavr, Urm Dosh and M. Safonova paper 'Similarity Indexing of Exoplanets in Search for Potential Habitability : Application To Mars-Like Worlds', (July 2, 2019),.1-24. "The search for habitable exoplanets has essentially two goals. both of which (if fullfield) will have profound implications to our civilization."
 


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