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Analysis of metal from an Ohio UFO case.

Discussion in 'The UFO Forum' started by Nicholas Reiter, Aug 10, 2008.



  1. Nicholas Reiter

    Nicholas Reiter Skilled Investigator

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    Greetings all,

    Nick Reiter here, and while I've been in the field for about 20 years, I am new to Paracast forum. I've certainly a lot of catching up to do here and look forward to meeting researchers and experiencers alike.

    Since about 1998, I've maintained a website of my research:

    www.theavalonfoundation.org

    Recently, I had posted a research paper concerning the analysis of two cases of "mystery metal" found in Ohio at different times. One of the cases involved a low altitude fly-over of a UFO, and the apparent ejection of a metal alloy blob.

    The direct link to this paper is here:

    http://www.theavalonfoundation.org/docs/metal.html

    At this time, I am hoping that other examples of aluminum alloy sky-fall metal can come to our attention~

    Best regards to all,

    nr
     
  2. Kieran

    Kieran Paranormal Adept

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    Just read some of the articles on this persons post , they seem a bit fraudulent to me looking at them from my point of view, others on the forum may think differently of course, Looking at the metals and the way they are described does not to me , seem to be exterrestial in origin , rather more likely home grown phenomen or hoaxs. All the metals are of earth based substances carbon ....etc .aluminum being described as an amazeing find seems ludicrous to me, Also you can get aluminum almost anywhere today if you really wanted it :question:
     
  3. Nicholas Reiter

    Nicholas Reiter Skilled Investigator

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    Hi Irish-seeker,

    If you read carefully my conclusions, you'll see that I don't rule out the possibility of a hoax. Thats why its important to see if more blobs like this, of similar composition, might be out there.

    You also suggest I am implying that the metal alloy is something fantastic. Of course not. It's quite similar to terrestrial alloys... but it was simply found in an odd form in an odd place. I use the term "unremarkable".

    Ask yourself the question that I really would like everyone to ask themselves... and which I asked myself too... why would an unusual craft, be it from this planet or otherwise, have to be made of something other than elements and metals available on Earth? Apart from super-heavies and those heavier than uranium or made in an accelerator, metallic and non-metallic elements seem to be pretty consistent throughout the universe, unless spectroscopy is lying. Now its not to say that the "mechanism" of a craft has to be something we currently understand. But the elements found in the crust of a terrestrial type planet 500 light years away would likely be the same as those found here.

    Thanks for replying,

    Best regards,

    nr
     
  4. TexasSteel

    TexasSteel Paranormal Novice

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    I’m new guy here to the Paracast Discussion Forums - long time listener, but this is the first time on the Forums. I’m looking forward to interesting and intelligent discussions of UFOs and various paranormal subjects.
     
  5. Gareth

    Gareth Nothin' to see here

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    Hi Nick,

    There was an episode of the Paracast where they interviewed a man who had recovered something that sounds like it could be described as a 'blob'. It looks like the shape of an acorn - only metal.

    I had a look through the archive but couldnt find the episode.... maybe someone could track it down for you. (If youre not already familiar with the case - the guy who found it had lots of trouble getting it analysed and recounted some classic men in black type encounteres I believe).
     
  6. Gene Steinberg

    Gene Steinberg Forum Super Hero Staff Member

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    The episode with Bob White, author of "UFO Hard Evidence," may be what you're looking for.

    Here's the link:

    http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect....theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_060801.mp3
     
  7. Kieran

    Kieran Paranormal Adept

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    Hi Nick it wasnt you personally i was referring to, It was one of the eyewitness statements in your article i was describeing Of course metals would be probably be the same all over the universe and beyond.it is just my opinion on those articles i am referring to.:)
     
  8. Gareth

    Gareth Nothin' to see here

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  9. Gil Bavel

    Gil Bavel Guest

    Hey--all metal comes from stars, as does everything else (so far as we can tell), every metal deposit in the Earth burned in the heart of a star at some point before it went nova and eventually accreted into our solar system.

    (Yes, okay, except for the few elements we've been able to create for very short periods of time in the lab.)

    So--if something did drop from an ET spacecraft, or was left behind by one, would it have to be so irregular that we would not recognize its composition? Or that it would be red-flagged right off the bat?

    I think this is a similar scenario to Seth Shostak's view that aliens wouldn't look anything like us. They wouldn't have one head, four limbs, two eyes, two ears, one nose with two nostrils, and one mouth.

    This is a really dumb thing for him to say. It's about as dumb as Richard Dawkins making pronouncements about radio telescope observations with no evidence.

    Shostak has nothing to base such a statement on. He may not be familiar with the concept of convergent evolution, in which totally different species on Earth independently evolve similar traits as a result of having to adapt to ecological niches or similar environments.

    Perhaps it's the case that for life (they always put in "as we know it" here) to exist, it must be carbon based, and eventually becomes bipedal.

    One thing's for sure, Seth Shostak doesn't have any better idea whether such is the case than any of the rest of us, and for him to make such a ridiculous pronouncement on no evidence (he claims there isn't any, anyway) is absurd.

    Just because metal from a flying saucer or otherwise unknown ET craft is made of terrestrially identifiable elements proves nothing. Either way.

    I think that the anecdotal and circumstantial evidence surrounding the metal itself is equally important, and must be included in any summary thereof.
     
  10. Astroboy

    Astroboy Illegitimate Clone

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    This would seem consistent with numerous eyewitness reports of UFOs dripping glowing embers of molten metal like material.

    Self-sustaining magnetic fields can be generated with molten metal if it was circulating in a shielded field just like the Earth and it's molten Iron core creates a magnetic field that shields us from dangerous solar radiation. See the following article:

    http://focus.aps.org/story/v19/st3

    This could be evidence of "exhaust" material being ejected from a man-made vehicle or alien craft. The material composition may not be remarkable but the shape suggests it was dripping when it was formed. Or it was a hoax. It would be a very sophisticated hoax though. The texture in the aluminum sample is very detailed.
     
  11. casketizer

    casketizer Master Magus OTO

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    While iron and aluminum do most likely occur on other extra solar planets, their isotope configurations will with almost certainty not be identical to those found on earth. It is easily possible to tell if a piece of iron or an iron-rich meteorite comes from earth, mars or an asteroid, just by measuring its isotope ratios.
    Has that been done to those blobs?
     
  12. Nicholas Reiter

    Nicholas Reiter Skilled Investigator

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    Thanks all, for getting some discussion going, and for bringing up the Bob White case. I had written a while back to Colm Kelleher re: the Bob White metal, and he referred me to a more recent paper that sadly I am not allowed to cite because it is unpublished. But essentially the paper was just a compilation of the past analyses done on White's metal. The crux of the matter is that it seems as though the NIDS position is that since the Bob White metal did not contain any exotic isotopes or internal engineered structures, then it was un-interesting and not worthy of consideration in the UFO mystery. My opinion on the Bob White metal is that careful enough engineering forensics could probably determine how hot it was when it was ejected from "whatever" and how far it fell. The pinecone shape to me says it cooled to a solid in-flight, and this also was hinted at in Kelleher's reports...but nobody seemed to think that was significant or bore enough interest for further evaluations.

    Now I also understand that Mr. White himself has also desperately been trying to find something "unearthly" about his metal, and typically rejects lab reports that don't find something unique. Which is sad - he ought to be trying to find other examples of sky fall metal alloy, even if they are made of "normal" elements.

    One data point does not a line make. But you need more than two or three to begin to draw a picture too. Maybe we can find more of these artifacts out there!

    Thanks again, all.

    nr
     
  13. Nicholas Reiter

    Nicholas Reiter Skilled Investigator

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    Reply to Casketizer...

    No, I have not been able to perform isotopic analysis. Thats certainly a very good test, and I agree that it should be explored. My own lab, and the local university resources don't have that sort of means. Do you know of someone who can perform that testing?

    A number of years back, I was one of the people who did analysis on the infamous Bi:Mg Arts Parts metal. Mine was the minority report, so to speak, and LMH wasn't real keen on my later conclusions. However back at the time, I was able to do a simple Archimedian test on the sample to see if it weighed more than it should have for its volume, given normal Earthly isotopic ratio. It seemed to be "normal" as best as I could tell, but was a crude test.

    I might be able to cut a precise sized sample of these and do something similar - good idea, Casketizer.

    nr
     
  14. casketizer

    casketizer Master Magus OTO

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    I used to have access to that kind of equipment through my sister's ex husband who is a physics professor. Sadly now that he is EX, that has seized.

    I just remembered something that might be of interest to you: There is a history channel (could have been discovery too but i think it was hst ufo files) documentary that mentions the Bob White case, in it they also mention an almost identical blob that crashed into the cockpit of a WW2 fighter plane during an UFO/foo fighter encounter. There is official military documentation of this case, though I am not sure if it was USAAF or British RAF. I'll think about it for a while maybe my old brainbox comes up with more details.
     
  15. meteorlima

    meteorlima Skilled Investigator

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    http://www.ufodigest.com/news/1106/nmspeciman.html ....http://ufo.whipnet.org/xdocs/nm.ufo.debris/ AT LAST! Someone with "similar" artifacts. It would take too much space to do 1 post on this...so..check this out. . I will post more later.http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg296/meteorlima/?start=all The attachment is the flip-side of the artifact, some of the material has been removed from this side and sent to others who also have similar artifacts, a better close-up (more detail) was too large in MB to post. BTW... I traded a small nickel iron meteorite for the artifact.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Nicholas Reiter

    Nicholas Reiter Skilled Investigator

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    Very interesting, Mr. Lima, thank you for sharing this! I am very appreciative of it. Do you have a full report on the analysis and chronology of this piece? Is any of the original plotted EDS data available?

    I look forward to seeing all you are in a position to share!

    Best regards,

    Nick Reiter
     
  17. meteorlima

    meteorlima Skilled Investigator

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    The problem is tests preformed on the metal only tell you what the metal is composed of NOT if it is "extraterrestrial" that requires "isotope ratio analysis" very difficult & expensive for average citizen to have done without funding and other resources available to them. Most labs that do this kind of testing are government owned and operated FOR the government,indpendent labs don't want to touch it,loss of funding/reputation...etc. You have to keep trying-don't give-up. I will keep updating on progress being made on any futher developments that are now underway.
     
  18. mike

    mike Paranormal Adept

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  19. meteorlima

    meteorlima Skilled Investigator

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    About the Bob White artifact, I tried contacting Mr. White about a year ago but only got his "spokesperson" who did not want to discuss the issue in greater detail,also these claims of ejected metal from a ufo means there was no crash to investigate just the ejected metal itself. IMO...This MAY be "foundry slag" by that I mean the artifact appears to have been "layered" from molten metal slowly dripping from a containment vessel onto itself with each layer cooling and another new layer being formed until it appears very odd-looking (pine-cone effect)...also foundry slag contains many contaminates..IMO. I have seen photos and observed up-close many "so called ufo crash debris fragments" from various sources over the years some obvious hoaxes others not so sure. It all comes back to "isotope ratios".
     
  20. dorkbot

    dorkbot Paranormal Adept

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    As I see you already have Vallee's paper in your references I don't think I have much to offer at the moment in the way of overlooked ejection cases. Maury Island, Bob White and the Ubatuba case were what immediately came to mind. I may be mistaken but I thought I heard somewhere that Vallee actually had a sample of the Ubatuba piece.

    Slightly tangent to your original request but along the lines of metal analysis would be Ray Stanford's collection of rocks w/ embedded metallic shavings from the Socorro/Zamora incident. Stanford says initial analysis was performed by NASA that showed unknown, (from memory) zinc-iron alloy but the results were later denied and claimed by NASA to be mostly silicon. I mention it as it seems to be one of the details of the Socorro case that have been largely ignored.

    "What if these "real" UFOs are something along the lines of disposable drones or probes, that decompose or self destruct when done with their task."

    This strikes me as a novel bit of speculation. I would only add that several of the reports that accompany ejections describe what appeared to witnesses as a sequence of apparent stability problems w/ the object followed by mass ejection and a subsequent recovery from perceived stability problems. I've read speculation by some that would attribute these accounts to some sort of rotating mercury and/or aluminum plasma ie. tokamak type thingy being involved. Who knows. Self-destructing probes are a cool idea though.

    As I see you are from Ohio I would just remind you that OSU has one of the best public UFO material collections in the world. Could be a profitable research source for you.
     
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