Abductee Research -Accounting for Psychosis

[Hotkafka]

There's a considerable divide within the abduction research community about whether or not to exclude Abductee claimants with psychiatric histories. What are your feelings on this matter?

 

[mike]

I think the correct thing to do would be to quarantine those data sets,rather than discount them entirely.
This way you would have one data set you could be reasonably sure was free of such contamination.

The other set is still valid data, but with a lower credibility factor than the prime set

Knowing what consitutes wheat and what constitutes chaff is an important factor in seperating the two

 

[Hotkafka]

Sigh. Ok, wheeling in the cart with free funnel cakes and tickets for the Steven Greer dunking booth. Boy in the balloon ride. Col Kal Korff biting off Chupacabra heads, in uniform of unknown origin.

Come on people, looking for some feedback here. Yes, I know the spooky sounds in the Spirit Cave thread is mighty enticing, but.... you know.

Thanks in advance.

BTW: the last category is supposed to read, "Whatever. Psychotics and Abductees are one and the same."

 

[Hotkafka]

We need more psychologists/psychological types here.

 

[softbeard]

It could be argued that, based on mankind's behaviour throughout history, the majority of the population, wherever and whenever sampled, have some kind of psychosis, or psychological problems, to lesser or greater degree. And this includes the psychiatrists and psychologists. My own observations of downright self-destructive behaviour on a large scale tends to support this notion. Note I am not necessarily excluding myself from the list of people with significant psychiatric problems. I guess the point is, just because the person has never been comitted to a psychiatric hospital does not mean much. So one should assume a witness has some issues, then try to discover if these issues have significant bearing on their account.

 

[trainedobserver]

There's a considerable divide within the abduction research community about whether or not to exclude Abductee claimants with psychiatric histories. What are your feelings on this matter?

I think it only makes sense to include them. You can't fall backwards into such as Hynek's practice of excluding all UFO accounts with abduction elements or the folks who see UFOs multiple times.

There is the take that for any problem the greater number of data points the better. Also, I don't anyone could argue that the UFO phenomena hasn't contained a large mental component from the beginning, whenever that was.

 

[Keiko]

There's a considerable divide within the abduction research community about whether or not to exclude Abductee claimants with psychiatric histories. What are your feelings on this matter?

I guess it would be best to include them to some degree (maybe quarantined in some way as Mike suggested). I can understand why most researchers would be wary of dealing with them though and or using their accounts to in some way constitute evidence for whatever hypothesis they put forward. It's hard enough when dealing with credible and seemingly sane people but there are just too many minefields if someone has established psychiatric problems. Only someone like John Mack would have had the credentials to really evaluate someone in this state.

 

[CapnG]

Assuming for the moment that abductions are real and that they are deeply disturbing, highly traumatic events, then isn't it probable that they would cause psychosis, rendering the whole idea of seperating it out as a "bad" criterion pointless?

 

[Simone_m]

Assuming for the moment that abductions are real and that they are deeply disturbing, highly traumatic events, then isn't it probable that they would cause psychosis, rendering the whole idea of seperating it out as a "bad" criterion pointless?

Thank you, now something intelligent here.
It looks like you all lump "the mentally ill" altogether into being one thing, just like if you were to lump "the physically ill" altogether into onto one thing. So, if someone is depressed and experiences a ufo type event, they should be regarded the same as that homeless guy who goes around incoherently rambling about how Jesus and Saddam Hussein live in his hair? Are you kidding me? So, a war vet with PTSD should be regarded the same as the L.A. party girl with Bi-Polar? Would Charles Sheen be heeded the same as Silvia Plath? Should Gary McKinnon be totally and completely dismissed just because he has Asperger Autism?
The Great late Dr. John Mack would be a good determiner of seperating the wheat from the chaff. The wheat, ya know, are those educated white married guys who are, like, high ranking military officers. Ya know, those kinds you always hear about ending up on the MSM due to a scandal involving a woman or their computer at home. Ahem. (Sorry if I'm getting too sarcastic, I feel p****d.) John Mack Totaly Truly Beeleeved Donna Bassett, while she sat (alledgedly on his lap) and told him about Kruschev and Kennedy aboard the ET space ship she was on. You want that guy concluding what your brain state is?
By-the-way. Have any of you ever personally --- known someone (real and living [or was] ) who had ZERO "issues?" Inquiring Minds Want to Know!

 

[NTS]

Abduction experiences may be a SYMPTOM of psychosis. Or they may cause psychosis as CapnG suggests. Or if the abductions are in some sense "real" maybe people with mental problems are being targeted for some reason. We should include all reports until we have better ideas about what's happening.

edit: cross-posted with Simone_m.

 

[Simone_m]

I was thinking about the thread author's statement re: "claimants with psychiatric histories". So thats a record of mental illness or/and treatment for such? But those "histories" cover a LOT of diverse various ground. I get what you are saying though.
With myself, I had seen professionals because of problems, some trauma caused, but none involving the Martians speaking to my fillings, if-u-will. I have a lot of *documentation* for a highly strange journey down the 'rabbit hole' of government, years ago, and is it all irrelevent because am no witness-of-mass-impression (more like the-sum-of-all fears) ??? Just wonderin.

 

[Simone_m]

I looked online for good references to specifically, "psychosis". Very informative stuff. Paranoia, persecutory feelings, are of the psychotic. Drugs and sleep deprivation are (can be) causes. As vitamin B12 definciency and vitamin D overdose! Who'da thunk!? They say that, depending on it's severity, bizarre behaviour, difficult social interraction, and impairment in daily life function. Every abductee I ever -listened to- and -observed- (Ufo conferences I attended) did not fit those negative aspects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis#Personal_accounts

http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/warwickmed/ (Scroll down o March 07 2011)

It seems to me, that a really good example of psychosis in the -- ufo -- subject; were the Heaven's Gate cult leaders Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles, "The Two" and also their followers.
More than abductees. The Two were definitely not low functioning and non social though, they loved being gods of the masses, which is delusional, ---- though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group)

And now I understand that Burisch and this lady with him are calling themselves "The Two"?

 

[mike]

I think anyone who's been to a public UFO event will have noticed the presence of the "lunatic fringe"
The question that i always have with this reality is a chicken and egg one, which came first
Is their experience a result of the mental health issue, or visa versa.

Obviously those who present themselves as rational and normal make better candidates for study/evidence/testimony etc.
But the other data set has its place in the study too imo

 

[boomerang]

I think the question needs qualification. "Psychiatric history" could include everything from garden variety clinical depression to full blown hallucinatory schizophrenia. Impersonating a psychologist, I would say disorders break down into 2 very broad categories: neuroses--such as depression or phobia, which affect the person's emotional interpretation as regards real events, and psychoses--which warp or distort a person's cognitive interpretation of reality. The neurotic says "I feel like a computer". The psychotic says "I am a computer." I could be off base and this is certainly an over simplification.

Establishing a baseline in reality for this is difficult enough. In individuals with a life long history of being out of touch with reality (whatever that is) it could be almost impossible. And yes, we are still left with the chicken-or-egg dilemma in any case.

 

[softbeard]

As vitamin B12 definciency and vitamin D overdose!

[off-topic]
From personal experience, I can tell you vitamin B12 definciency definitely does cause depression amongst other typical symptoms of anemia.

 

[hak]

There's a considerable divide within the abduction research community about whether or not to exclude Abductee claimants with psychiatric histories. What are your feelings on this matter?​

First, the question is very simplistic considering the issue at hand. Did you dumb it down on purpose?
Second, half the abduction research community could be considered mentally ill.
Third, is seems like anyone training in psychiatry would understand that every person is different (on some level, i know people do tend to fit in patterns.. ), so of course you would have to consider each case individually.
Fourth, I would think abductions would be incredibly traumatic and induce mental illness
Fifth, get the EMDR out.
Sixth, I've met people whose "psychic" abilities went hand in hand with their psychosis.

Seventh, it is up to the researcher to be able to differentiate between a persons psychosis and reality, and that is where the problem lies. So, good luck with that.

 

[exo_doc]

Does it even make a difference whether or not they have had psychological problems or mental ills in the past?
I understand how this makes any claims they have look like delusions, pschosis, or even schizophrenia.
But that makes this next question even more important;
If you have a set of subjects with very similar details in describing thier events, with no background history on any of the subjects, how would you be able to tell which ones are mentally ill in the past, and those who've never had mental ills?
Would interviews reveal underlying psychological conditions,....or would they all come across pretty much the same?

Do you see my point?

We would like to say someone with a mental problem past is less reliable, but how could we be sure?
We should discount thier reports only because of psychological problems?
Does that make thier encounters/abductions any less real than people with no mental problems in thier past?

 

[Ron Collins]

There's a considerable divide within the abduction research community about whether or not to exclude Abductee claimants with psychiatric histories. What are your feelings on this matter?

Such a tricky question. Is it possible that the experiance itslef has caused a certain level of psychological issues? Does expressin parts of the experiance cause a certain diagnosis to be rendered? Can a psychiatric history actually be a chronical of bad diagnosis caused by a real phenomenon? OR should we only entertain stories from those without this sort of history.

Hmm, for me I think you need to take a look at all the stories, no matter the origin, and then look for consistency and patterns. As the abduction phenomenon has yet to be adequately researched we have no way of knowing if it is a physical phenomenon or a mental disease. Maybe its a bit of both.

 

[softbeard]

Second, half the abduction research community could be considered mentally ill

Hmm...I think you are making an understatement. I would start by considering most of the earth's human population mentally ill to some degree and go from there.

 

[boomerang]

Hmm...I think you are making an understatement. I would start by considering most of the earth's human population mentally ill to some degree and go from there.

Painfully true, LOL.