9/11

[Chiron]

I have to say I have found this 9/11 documentry the most compelling yet. The widowed Jersey Girls certainly have done their homework and even intimidated Kissenger himself. Shedding light on repressed firefighter interviews and blatant deniablity by their elected officials. Its about time we all start taking an active role in these matters. Goverments arekeeping us in the dark.

 

[cottonzway]

Here is a topic nobody wants to touch with a 10 foot pole! It is such a difficult topic for people to talk about. I have very strong views on this topic but I will not bring it up unless someone else does. I guess it is one of those things that I feel strongly about yet understand not everyone can handle even talking about it so I will only speak on it when I know others will do so.

The biggest problem with the whole 9/11 situation and trying to find out a better understand of what happened is either very ?fringe? info or pure disinformation. It seems like people want to focus on things like the Pentagon, bombs going off at the WTC complex, and far out ?crazy? theories like no planes hit the building, star wars beams, and other mindless drivel.

I don't need to push my views on anyone but I do think if someone wants to understand what 9/11 is all about that looking at a lot more important (and less debatable) information makes sense. Things such as the controlled demolition of WTC 7, a 47-story steel framed building hit by no plane, that fell at 5:20 at night in a straight down pile of symmetry. Look at WHY NORAD stood down. More importantly then people debating ?if? a plane with the Pentagon they really should be asking why the hell it was allowed to hit that building! It is unfathomable to think the Pentagon would be allowed to be compromised, it should be protected at all costs. Ask why inside trading went on a few days with amounts as much as 11x the daily average of put options were put on the very airlines that hit the towers. A put option is a bet a stock will fall, and obviously United and American airlines had they stock fall.

I suggest if people want to be informed about this to read the right books and info to do so. Before anything though read the official 9/11 commission report. If the data in there satisfies you then reading anything won't help you. Just read it and ask why they lie or distort, or omit so much vital information. I would suggest reading the books of Dr. David Ray Griffin (The New Pearl Harbor, 9/11 Omissions and Distortions), Webster Tarply (9/11 Synthetic Terrorism), read the work of Professor Steven Jones of BYU, look up what false flag terrorism is (in particular Operation Northwoods), and read the PNAC document created by those who are in charge of the country present day.

 

[auntiegrav]

I think that as long as we, as individuals, don't try to live without 'Them', then they will continue to take advantage of the naivete of the masses.
One disaster or another will always come along, whether manmade or not, and be used to convince people that they have to turn to yet another 'system' to prevent it.
What if we stopped trying to prevent disasters and tried to just live simply and build new things? 9/11 was a tragedy for 3,000 people and their families. Every year, we kill 40,000 on the highways of Production and Entertainment. Death happens whether we want it to or not. Living takes conscious action without Blind Faith in government, religion, or technology.

Is the answer to a tragedy to create more tragedies? As long as we keep working and spending, They will keep hiding their actions and creating illusions to motivate us.
If you want Change, keep it in your pocket. They have power because we buy their Stuff and use money instead of tools.
Whether they LIHOP, MIHOP, or whatever you want to believe, they definitely took advantage of people with the ensuing wars. Cui bono?
Follow the money trail to Saudi Arabia, and from there, all roads and tankers lead to us.
Michael Rupperts "Crossing the Rubicon" and Greg Palast's "Armed Madhouse" should be added to your list. As well as "The Hunt for Zero Point" by Nick Cook.
The last one because everything needs to be in perspective of the real scandal about oil: that we never needed the Middle East.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

You might like "Loose Change" and "Terror Storm". Most likely you've seen them already though.

I read more money went into investigating the Clinton scandal than 9/11. Pretty sick, if true.

I'm all for more investigations, if for only the simple reason of this being a huge historical event. Not to mention there is suspicions on the minds of many that the official explanation isn't accurate. Hope this doesn't go the way of JFK. I only reached a conclusion about what really happened to him a few years ago. It took a long time for good work (in my view) to be done with that matter.

 

[stitcherman]

i do know........ , look at bldg # 7 . it "fell down at 530 pm on sept 11th.

those planes alone did not cause those towers to fall into the basement.

whatever happened that day is not what we have been fed at all !

 

[Aaron LeClair]

This isn't directed at the person above, just some generalized remarks.


Seems everyone is an expert on fire, buildings and demolitions now since 911, notice? I'm still not confident in the experts, non-experts, or myself to pretend to know what exactly happened. Doesn't look like I'll have any conclusions for awhile. Other than to conclude to not conclude I guess.

Some people see oddities as proof of some sort of conspiracy. Maybe it is. But it just as easily could indicate that we are just ignorant. That goes for the so called experts. I seen an expert on autopsies be convinced the alien autopsy was real for example.

There's some good (and bad) discussion of 911 etc. over at ATS forums. You'll see experts disagree and people just rub whichever one says what they want to believe.

I do know planes were involved in the Towers. No doubt about that. What all else, if anything? Still don't know.

I have seen clips of building seven being on fire etc. It supposedly, got bombarded with debri in which started it's fire which then lead to it's collapse later. I mention this because some people say the building wasn't hit by a plane. True. A plane in it's entirety. But pieces of planes and the towers? Among other things? I'd say yes.

 

[CapnG]

I have seen clips of building seven being on fire etc. It supposedly, got bombarded with debri in which started it's fire which then lead to it's collapse later. I mention this because some people say the building wasn't hit by a plane. True. A plane in it's entirety. But pieces of planes and the towers? Among other things? I'd say yes.

My opinion of the whole 9/11 conspiracy is constantly under revision but I have come to some definite conclusions:

#1: "Experts" can debate back and forth til they're blue in the face about the twin towers and stresses and temperatures and timing but the fact of the matter is, until that day, no buildings that size, constructed in that fashion had ever suffered damage of that magnitude, so to assume we can predict exactly how (or even if) they should have collapsed is nuts. There's simply no frame of reference.

#2: Building 7 should not have collapsed. Unlike it's taller bretheren, there is plenty of data on buildings of that size and type collapsing. The damage from both debris and fire was insufficient. There's also the matter of officials being shied away before the attacks, comments from fire-fighters and Silverstein's infamous "pull it" remark. Something's rotten in Denmark...

#3: The credibility of "experts" should always be under scrutiny but once proven reliable and sane, should not be dismissed simply because their opinion doesn't coincide with whichever side of this discussion you fall on. The fact that the experts don't agree isn't surprising but it should be kept in mind a man can be educated and still be wrong.

#4: The Pentagon strike was too convienient. I don't really care if it was a missile, a drone or a plane that struck it (for the record, it was a plane IMHO) because that's NOT the important part. The fact it hit the wall which was most recently reinforced, at such an extreme angle instead of say, smashing into one of the older, weaker walls or the center courtyard seems highly unlikely given the amount of supposed planning that went into this.

 

[cottonzway]

I won't give some long "preach" about this topic but let me say this very simple part of the whole 9/11 event. There are things that ask serious questions as to who, how, and why that do not involve a buidling or an airplane. The physical data is secondary. The important data is obvious distortions and omissions in the offical story sold for 9/11. Anyone who is intrested in the topic spend the time to look at such things and you will have a better understanding of it.

 

[themacx]

Holland says.. 9/11 is an inside job, well most of us ;-)


This will be a Christmas present for many of my friends and family, it's a calender asking important 911 questions (in dutch), that's all.. just questions.

9/11 Calendar from the Netherlands | 911Blogger.com

 

[idontunderstand]

I have to say I have found this 9/11 documentry the most compelling yet. The widowed Jersey Girls certainly have done their homework and even intimidated Kissenger himself. Shedding light on repressed firefighter interviews and blatant deniablity by their elected officials. Its about time we all start taking an active role in these matters. Goverments arekeeping us in the dark.

I think 911 was a inside job. Look at the bloody and evil history of the CIA, and you can see that it wouldn't be beyond them or any other 3 letter organization they have.

As I always say to my mother they are gangsters in suits thats all.

 

[aaron]

I think 911 was a inside job. Look at the bloody and evil history of the CIA, and you can see that it wouldn't be beyond them or any other 3 letter organization they have.

As I always say to my mother they are gangsters in suits thats all.

Maybe we should all read the Popular Mechanics book that goes into logical examination about all the myths surrounding 9/11

Of course, there is always a chance that Popular Mechanics is working for them.

 

[cottonzway]

Maybe we should all read the Popular Mechanics book that goes into logical examination about all the myths surrounding 9/11

Of course, there is always a chance that Popular Mechanics is working for them.

The intresting thing is that it is rather easy to see that the Kean-Hamilton report is a bold faced lie without going anywhere near and airplane or a building. So much of what is talked about when it comes to bombs in buildings and missles hitting the Pentagon are either disinformation. When someone spends the time to understand that you have a different view when you see debates about a lot of things you know are nonsense.

 

[idontunderstand]

Maybe we should all read the Popular Mechanics book that goes into logical examination about all the myths surrounding 9/11

Of course, there is always a chance that Popular Mechanics is working for them.

The appeal to intellect is always a good tool in trying to get people to accept your version of events. Regardless of the physical characteristics of the buildings collapses, i believe an evil and cancerous element of sub government was involved in these attacks.

You see when someone is seen to be an authority or an intellectual body like popular mechanics, people tend to say "Ah ok they are the experts, nothing else to look at then"

You have to apply the same critical thinking to popular mechanics claims as you do any other reports.

Reply to Popular Mechanics re 9/11

 

[CapnG]

I find two things notably eyebrow-raising about the PM report:

1) The cheif editor is a direct relation to Michael Chirtoff

and

2) The notion that because they are assembled under the banner of PM, the experts and their analyses are the only valid explanations for the events of 9/11, whereas other, equally qualified experts are denounced as quacks, loons and idiots because they refuse to agree with their collegues.

 

[idontunderstand]

I find two things notably eyebrow-raising about the PM report:

1) The cheif editor is a direct relation to Michael Chirtoff

and

2) The notion that because they are assembled under the banner of PM, the experts and their analyses are the only valid explanations for the events of 9/11, whereas other, equally qualified experts are denounced as quacks, loons and idiots because they refuse to agree with their collegues.

Well said my man!

 

[DVS]

So that makes Popular Mechanics and those particular experts any less credible than say, the 19 year old college student who made Loose Change and Dr. Griffin? The chief editor is related to Michael Chertoff? I happen to think Popular Mechanics has a good reputation and I dont think their intention was to tow the goverment line, but to answer the various conspiracy theories out there.

For example, I have been hearing for years that it a plane did not hit the pentagon, even where there are dozens of witnesses that identified it as an American Airlines plane. They say, first a car bomb, then it was a Global hawk, then it was a cruise missile because the hole was too small, then it was a remote controlled plane, then the witnesses that saw the AA Boeing were 'in on it', etc..Well, what happened to the passengers? Now, they apprently moved the goal posts with this one, but still can't admit that Islamic terorrists did, anythig BUT Islamic terrorists. The only way I have heard conspiracy theorists say it was Bin Laden and al queda was in that they were all CIA operatives and yes I know about Afghanistan in the 80's.

I'm in the camp that it was done by Islamic terrorists and the intel services 'allowed it to happen' with their incompetence. There have been huge intelligence failures that date back to the mid-90's. This does not mean it was a huge government conspiracy, it was government negligence. Does this mean Im a Bush operative Neo-Con who believes the 'official story'? No it doesnt, I made up my mind by doing plenty of research, including the conspiracy theories. The 9/11 commision was a CYA commission. I would recommend people check out the following site and books:

http://www.peterlance.com/Peter Lance/Home/Home.html

I do see things that are unanswered, but just can't jump to the conclusion that it was a huge Neo Con conspiracy and just because unrelated documents exist such as Operation Northwinds, doesnt mean that the CIA performed 9/11. If the PNAC was so evil and sinister, and they hatched the attack, then why has it been on the internet for the public to see for something like 5 years before 9/11 even happened? Hasnt Bin Laden openly admitted to 9/11 numerous times as well as videos of the Atta in Afghanistan pop-up?

If there are unanswered questions, fine. But some of those conspiracy theories just ignore reality and fact and replace it with a conspiracy that really cannot be proven. They make these huge jumps to conclusion which sometimes defies logic. That where it really comes down to. People will believe what they want.

 

[CapnG]

So that makes Popular Mechanics and those particular experts any less credible than say, the 19 year old college student who made Loose Change and Dr. Griffin? The chief editor is related to Michael Chertoff? I happen to think Popular Mechanics has a good reputation and I dont think their intention was to tow the goverment line, but to answer the various conspiracy theories out there.

I'm not talking about armchair physicists and 19 year old film students, I'm talking about equally quallified individuals as those published in the PM article. That doesn't make their opinions MORE credible, it makes them EQUALLY credible. And yeah, it bugs me that Chertoff's connected in the same way it bugged most people Bush's 2000 election victory was dictated by the state Governed by his brother. That's not proof of conspiracy but it's certainly uncomfortable.

For example, I have been hearing for years that it a plane did not hit the pentagon, even where there are dozens of witnesses that identified it as an American Airlines plane. They say, first a car bomb, then it was a Global hawk, then it was a cruise missile because the hole was too small, then it was a remote controlled plane, then the witnesses that saw the AA Boeing were 'in on it', etc..Well, what happened to the passengers?

Actually, what DID happen to the passengers? In all this quest to prove/disprove the plane wreckage, I've never heard anything about a coroner's report. Such records must exist. But it doesn't matter. There are people who believe that the twin towers were demolished by UFOs using lasers while projecting holograms of planes crashing into them as a distraction. Crazy theories abound.

If the PNAC was so evil and sinister, and they hatched the attack, then why has it been on the internet for the public to see for something like 5 years before 9/11 even happened?

Probably because they knew no one would accept such a notion. Most people don't like the government but few would accept the idea that they would actively take steps to attack their own people (either directly or indirectly). Those people haven't read Machiavelli.

That where it really comes down to. People will believe what they want.

Yes indeed... on both sides of the fence.

 

[aaron]

WRT to Chertoff, the publisher has said publicly that they are distant coucins have have not spoken but once which was prior to his being nominated to be DHS. But what would you expect him to say? Of course I believe him since I am one of these simple folk that believe we actually landed on the moon...

What I find interesting is that there are some conspiracies that latch on and some that don't. For example, there are some schools of thought that the Government is covering up what really happened to TWA Flight 800 and who really was being the bombings in Oklahoma City.

Why have these two not taken off as the 9/11 conspiracy theories?

 

[DVS]

Those passengers in the plane that hit the pentagon are dead. I think if you would ask their families they would agree, unless.... they are in on it!

 

[CapnG]

Why have these two not taken off as the 9/11 conspiracy theories?

Many conspiracy thinkers link them together (another one of those OMNIconspirancies) so they don't really have "legs" of their own.

DVS- If they're dead (and one would certainly expect so) then SOME for of human remains must have been identified in some report somewhere. Other non-specific details must also have survived, a ring, a passport fragment, a piece of stray jewlery, SOMETHING (people don't board airplanes empty handed in their underwear... well, not yet anyway). If furniture and computers can survive the impact, so can they. Seems to me that information would silence about 60-80% of even the most die hard conspiracy thinkers.