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10 observations


bluecat

Skilled Investigator
I have a life-long interest in UFOs. I am almost 60 and began reading on the subject when I was 10. A while back I discovered podcasts and have been listening to this show and others with great interest.

For what they are worth I would like to offer 10 brief observations about this field and the people in it. Some sound tounge-in-cheek. I do not mean them as such. They are observations without judgement.

1. What a person believes about ufos says more about the person than ufos.

2. UFO researchers talk more about other UFO researchers than UFOs.

3. If a person is a believer, no proof is necessary, if they aren’t, no proof is adequate.

4. UFO research is a quest to reconcile a real experience with its illogical, but necessary, implications.

5. Religion begins with faith. If data conflicts with faith, the data is rejected.

Science begins with a hypothesis. If data conflicts with it, the hypothesis is rejected.

Most paranormal research is more like religion than science.


6. No one is more intolerant of fringe beliefs that someone with differing fringe beliefs.

7. People who have found the truth are less interesting than those who are looking for it.

8. The purpose of disinformation is to erase meaning.

9. First, the phenomenon, then those who experience the phenomenon and finally those who experience those who experience the phenomenon. This last group is called experts.

10. Fundamental questions like who, why and how are never answered.
Bluecat
 
Good observations. I like number 7...:D

"People who have found the truth are less interesting than those who are looking for it."

This is a pretty good quote..thanks.
 
Good list, I must agree.

But it certainly makes a good argument for ending the show - I mean, we're guilty of all of the stuff in the list, so does that mean we're wasting our time here? Are all of you also wasting your time listening to the show, and posting on these forums?

I don't mean this with any attitude, I'm genuinely curious. Gene, what do you think of the list? Does it make a good case for ceasing The Paracast?

dB
 
I think that so long as people experience these things, we need to seek answers. We may not always find them, but the journey should be the reward regardless. I say we continue.
 
Good list, I must agree.

But it certainly makes a good argument for ending the show - I mean, we're guilty of all of the stuff in the list, so does that mean we're wasting our time here? Are all of you also wasting your time listening to the show, and posting on these forums?

I don't mean this with any attitude, I'm genuinely curious. Gene, what do you think of the list? Does it make a good case for ceasing The Paracast?

dB

I would say it is not a waste of time to try to find some understanding of what is happening. Some people experience it, others don't and never will, others see it and deny it. Those points alone are worth questioning.

I don't think looking for understanding of the human experience/psyche or any of the myriad unexplained occurences is a waste, at any time.

Some folks only occasionally dip into the water to see if it is clear, some never do, and others constantly monitor it. Whatever category each of us fits into, our time is not wasted in listening to or seeking out the opinions of others.

I think, and this is strictly my opinion, that when your podcast episodes and the forum drop off into inane subjects with no intelligent discourse, that is when you may want to consider closing shop.

At this point, I think - again my opinion - the worthwhile podcast episodes and forum threads and posts outnumber the "what the??" episodes and forum content by a huge margin :)

If you are suffering burnout, that is an entirely different kettle of fish, and not one we can easily help you with...:(
 
That's a good OP. I enjoyed reading it, but suspect there's more 'judgment' than you concede. As observations go, they are superficially accurate. Closer attention suggests the kind of rhetoric found in platitudes. This is no judgment of you, but a recognition of the kind of statement found on coffee mugs and forums. I agree with a couple of them, although despite their definitive tone, they are all debatable.
 
Good list, I must agree.

But it certainly makes a good argument for ending the show - I mean, we're guilty of all of the stuff in the list, so does that mean we're wasting our time here? Are all of you also wasting your time listening to the show, and posting on these forums?

I don't mean this with any attitude, I'm genuinely curious. Gene, what do you think of the list? Does it make a good case for ceasing The Paracast?

dB

As long as you don't go the way of the milton howes whitley streibers of the world, and don't align yourselves with any particular groups which have "the answers (TM)", and keep acting as sceptics in the true sense of the word, that's sceptics without a capital "S", then please continue:D

If I had any suggestions, I would say this - perhaps try to interview people who you think are of a high pedigree, and leave alone the shit. Not that it's not valuable confronting a charlatan, but I find myself skipping through those episodes because I really don't want to hear the drivel that comes from their mouths (not that it isn't fun to hear David let rip afterwards:D).

The last episode that I had real interest in was the one on Bentwaters, and before that the listener round table. So, I guess what I am trying to say is have more experiencers on, I suppose.

If you are really sick of all the crap, maybe you should not make the show a weekly thing, and instead wait until you have something really juicy to sink your teeth into. You could extent your reach a bit and have episodes with guests such as Ray Kurzweil on the singularity, or anthropologists who could give a history of the UFO as a cultural phenonemon (everything is a cultural phenonemon, be it real or otherwise) and even take them to task a bit. In other words, more of the same, just higher calibre guests.

Do keep the forum though;)
 
... Closer attention suggests the kind of rhetoric found in platitudes. This is no judgment of you, but a recognition of the kind of statement found on coffee mugs and forums. I agree with a couple of them, although despite their definitive tone, they are all debatable.

So, what makes a platitude, a platitude? The amount of times something similar is repeated? Cited as truth? Or just something very obvious and boring in its everyday logic?

Flatness is stated as one of the meanings, banal as another explanation of its meaning.

But, even a cliche has merit, so why not a platitude? A cliche becomes a cliche by starting out as a basic truth that is so evident it should be common knowledge, yet must still be stated to those who ignore simplicity. After a time, it explains, in a short phrase, a very complex set of circumstances and results of action, or inaction. In effect, it becomes the word version of a picture worth a thousand words.

I submit the word "platitude" has a similar connotation... ;)
 
I'm almost sixty too. I've been asking myself the same questions for years and years now, but I agree with Gene. It's all about one's journey and the journey includes some deep consideration about all of life, here, inside myself and the vast Elsewhere.

The list is good because it reminds us of our prejudices and how we behave when faced with them. After reading Vallee and Keel years ago, I pretty much bought the Trickster aspect because something deep within me, (my insanity? I don't know!) actually clinched, then grabbed, the concept as true. I just know there's so much more to experience in being alive than my cleaning the cat box, reading Dan Brown's latest, falling in love, you name it ....

If I ever discovered a truth, however, this is it. Life is for experiencing and learning. If I quit asking the questions, if I become so mired in my expectations that I become bored, if I insist on being right, I stop living. Fully at least.

So when I can, I come here to a band of the curious. It's hard to find curious people who haven't gone over the edge, who stay open to new thought regardless of the personal consequences.

I admit to skipping the episodes recently that rip new holes in the asses of the usual suspects. I know those guys, thanks to the Paracast, and don't want to waste my time on them, even if Gene and David are good at disproving their theories.

But I like the explorer aspects of the show and this board. I like the podcasts of late because they seem to go beyond the expected. I expect to find Budd Hopkins a more fully developed character once I get to listen to this week's show. It will help put him in context for his journey, one that held me in fascination at one time.

I guess I'm saying that learning is a shared experience, one I can't learn from without input from my peers. So yeah, you guys continue. Let's bust through the BlueCat List with our eyes and ears wide open!

Ew! I'm a Monday morning cheerleader. Must be the B-12.
 
Interesting list. It's a sad state of affairs when the whole of 50+ years of research can be pigeonholed in a 10 bullet list.

There's a small #11 though: Those that seek the facts without ascribing to either belief or disbelief are shunned by both sides.
 
Consider the sports team that will never win. No matter how hard they try, practice, condition, it doesn't matter. They will just never win. So why even play the game??

I would submit that it is more about the hunt than the kill. We are never going to know the truth about the UFO phenomenon (I'm pretty sure of this). We are never going to win. But the hunt, the hunt is a completely different thing. Our questions , whether from experience or intellectual curiosity, demand a pursuit of answers. And that pusuit weaves and bobs through the murkiness trying to find the answers. We won't ever close in on the kill, but if we gain any kind of insight along the way then it is time well spent.

That is why the crappiest teams still get together to practice, run, and suffer. The journey is most important. And what we experience while making that journey is this thing we call life.
 
Many years ago, I attended a lecture by Isaac Asimov, someone who I deeply respect. The lecture was at NYU, and it was a good one.

When he took questions from the audience, someone asked him why the world was so very messed up, why we humans were so hell-bent on self-destruction and negativity. Asimov thought for a moment or two, and said that he knew his answer would disturb many in the audience, but to let it sink in and not just react to it without proper consideration. It went something like this:

"People are stupid. Make this basic assumption, and you will never be surprised by the actions of the masses, and you'll have the one true insight as to why the world is the way it is. When you find the rare person who seems to rise above that stupidity, let it give you hope for the future, and for your own ability to recognize intelligence in a world otherwise filled with morons".

I've thought long and hard about those words since that day, and they've proven to be frighteningly accurate and cogent.

dB
 
He had a clear and direct way of writing, and the absolute hairiest 'burns I can ever recall seeing on the back of a dust jacket.

It appears he also had keen insight into the human lemming factor ;)

Think I may dig out my old books again, it has been years since I read about what Daneel and Hari are up to...
 
Thanks BlueCat.

Dave, I don't think there's any shame in being guilty of #4:

4. UFO research is a quest to reconcile a real experience with its illogical, but necessary, implications.

I see the Paracast show & forum engaged in this open-ended quest. The reconciliation between experience & logic is painful and messy but we're doing it, gradually. Perhaps along the way we'll learn a thing or two about logic itself.

Your leadership inspires me and keeps me from giving up on the quest. We may not live to learn the answer, but there will be an answer some day if rational & honest people hold the torch up, and keeping stepping forward.

(Sounds corny as I type it but hope you get the gist.)
 
I would really miss this show if it ended. I am looking for answers to the UFO question, and I think this show is the only place where the topic is discussed and debated in a logical manner. We might never find answers to the questions we seek, but I think this subject is worthy of sticking to.

I get frustrated with this subject all the time. I think everyone at certain stages of their lives steps away from the subject, and comes back again when they are ready.

Look, we might in the future have something which might blow the lid of the UFO phenomenon. The UFO occupants could easily come out one day, and show themselves. We just don't know what is behind the secrecy and why they wish to remain hidden. There are so many wild theories out there, and some logical suggestions there too, for the reasons behind the secrecy.

As to the this show: it show will remain as an archive for future generations. A show, the only show, where like minded people in the future will come and look and sayto themselves, David and Gene got it, and also hopefully say to themselves, this show explored the topic seriously, and this show tried to get to the bottom of the answer we are all seeking: what are UFOs?
 
It is a very good list but I have to disagree with:

5. Religion begins with faith. If data conflicts with faith, the data is rejected. Science begins with a hypothesis. If data conflicts with it, the hypothesis is rejected.

There are so many examples where scientists stick rigidly to a hypothesis and even alter the experiments to make it fit and disregard data. Who was it who said....." A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

I think the Paracast is fairly unique in that it tries to keep it real and I think succeeds. It's not just there for entertainment value.


 
Okay, I don't chime in much but I did want to say this;

I think the reason the Paracast, ATS and other places exist in the
first place is because a lot of us are pretty damned sure that ET
and ET vehicles are a reality. The unimaginable vastness of the
universe (universes?) guarantees it. It's also extremely likely
that plenty of other civilizations have been around far, far longer
the us, perhaps billions of years longer. What our scientists know
about the physics of the cosmos changes rapidly, almost day to
day. Now imagine what our knowledge will be a MILLION years
from now, if we're still around, that is.

I think most of us know they're out there, perhaps even here.
It's damned discouraging that all of our evidence to date seems to
be circumstantial, anecdotal or trace. We long for that chunk of a
spaceship to hold in our eager little hands. We long for that one
clear home video of an ET craft, up close and breathtakingly
detailed. We're all sick to our stomachs of all those fuzzy "lights
in the sky" bullshit youtube vids and huxters like Billy Meirs and
jackoffs like Dr. Jonathan Reed and the like. But we know ...

We know that it's coming. It has to be. It's inevitable. And that's
why we're all still here. Why we keep coming back.

It's coming.
Count on it.


That's just my opinion but I happen to agree with it.
 
REK2008,

I think, there is only one explanation and I've never heard anyone mention it. (Maybe they have and I've missed it.) As odd as this idea is, I think it has to be true: The phenomenon is self correcting. Undesired events are erased.

Bluecat

 
I think, there is only one explanation and I've never heard anyone mention it. (Maybe they have and I've missed it.) As odd as this idea is, I think it has to be true: The phenomenon is self correcting. Undesired events are erased.

Bluecat

Erased by who? Them? Us? Both? I'm not sure what you mean.
 
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