This was a really enjoyable episode which continued into the ATP where Allen fell into the quicksand over our differences on the evolution of stealth aircraft. To hear all the gory details you need to be a member of the Paracast Plus, but here's a teaser for you:
Greenfield: 22:25: "Unless of course one believes the stories about alien and human interactivity producing such things as stealth technology. The UFOs of the 1940s are remarkably like much later aircraft, and I'm aware of the flying wing and I'm aware you know that you can project out and I'm aware, very aware of the whole long history of science fiction cause it's kinda my hobby, but nevertheless it is rather remarkable that the stuff that appeared on the cover of Kenneth Arnold's Book, looks remarkably like a stealth bomber of today, almost as if the idea was given to the government. Certainly there's no reason to believe that Arnold or his friend Ray Palmer never had sufficient engineering knowledge to project that as a probable future."
My response to the above was essentially that stealth aircraft were a natural progression of the flying wing designed by the Horton brothers in Germany. If Greenfield was really aware of the flying wing then how is it that he doesn't know this? Here's the Wikipedia article: Stealth aircraft - Wikipedia
Arnold with artist's rendition for the cover of The Coming of the Saucers ( 1952 )
Horton Brother Flying wing ( conceived in the 1930s and flown in 1945 )
The comparison is obvious, and the flying wings built by Northrop were directly inspired by the Horton Brothers flying wing ( one reference here ). To Continue:
26:30: Murphy: I don't think we need to attribute the rise of the Internet to any sort of alien involvement ..."
26:50: Greefield: I said stealth technology I didn't say anything about the Internet being an alien technology.
26:55: Murphy: We can do the same thing with stealth technology ...
Greenfield: Absolutely not
Murphy: Going back to the Horton Brothers. Yes we can.
Greefield: No ...
27:45: Murphy: You've got no mystery there. You've just got a development of the technology where low ratio aircraft are competing with better and better quality radar, and then they develop radar absorbing materials and so on along the way. So it's all engineering, and radar, and radio, and electronics, we don't need to invoke aliens at all.
Greenfield: No we don't need to and you're kind of missing my point. I mentioned the flying wing which I'm very well acquainted with and I don't see that as being a precursor of stealth technology as it's developed.
Murphy: It is though. That's taken for granted in aeronautics in terms of the engineering. You just gotta go back and read enough about it.
Greenfield: Let's assume that you're correct. No I have read that and you're being insulting now. The notion that I'm not well read on these subjects is absurd, and just because you have a very physicalist point of view doesn't mean you're the sage of these subjects. I'm sorry. You're not. The point is that I'm not suggesting that alien technology which I mention in a different context if you will rewind later anticipated that science fiction writers were not anticipating but which was anticipated by early UFO cases ...
Okay. I think most people can see where this is going. Greenfield clearly brings up the idea of alien and human interactivity producing such things as stealth technology. I make the point that one just needs to read enough about stealth technology to know that it evolved from the flying wing, and the response from Greenfield is denial and to take it as personal slight on his reputation ( which wasn't the case at all ). While he's at it, he lobs one back at me and attempts to invoke the argument that I don't get it because I have a physicalist perspective. You can hear Greenfield continue his descent into the quicksand by joining the Paracast Plus and checking out the ATP episode.
In the meantime, on whether or not sci-fi alluded to anything like the internet before it was invented: