Reframing the Debate: A Path Forward or Backward?

[Randall]

UFOlogists often complain about the government withholding information about UFOs but...no wonder it does. I'm sure considerable progress has been made but people are still unready for open revelation of ETs.

What makes people unready for disclosure any more than stuff that's even worse, like the constant fear Trump is going to do something nuts, push the big red button, and fire the world? It seems to me that people are very resilient, most already believe in alien visitation or at least wouldn't be surprised, and that unpreparedness comes more from ignorance than knowledge. Sure it might shake some of the institutions up a little. But then again, maybe they need a little shaking up. This is something with the potential to unify the people of the world. But then again that's already been tried and people are more invested in protecting their own little piece of turf, or cultural identity, or whatever ethnocentric view they have than a unified world. It's really rather sad we've come so far and yet gone nowhere.

 

[marduk]

What makes people unready for disclosure any more than stuff that's even worse, like the constant fear Trump is going to do something nuts, push the big red button, and fire the world? It seems to me that people are very resilient, most already believe in alien visitation or at least wouldn't be surprised, and that unpreparedness come more from ignorance than knowledge. Sure it might shake some of the institutions up a little. But then again, maybe they need a little shaking up. This is something with the potential to unify the people of the world. But then again that's already been tried and people are more invested in protecting their own little piece of turf or cultural identity or whatever ethnocentric view they have than a unified world. It's really rather sad we've come so far and yet gone nowhere.

Listen guys.

If what I’ve experienced is real, we’re not ready for disclosure.

Hell, if what I’ve experienced is real, I guarantee our best social structures wouldn’t even know what to disclose.

This is not an arguement against disclosure - I think everybody will pretty much shrug it off if it happens. The disclosure part I mean.

Having it happen to you or your family — and knowing 100% its true — nobody’s ready for that.

 

[Randall]

Listen guys. If what I’ve experienced is real, we’re not ready for disclosure. Hell, if what I’ve experienced is real, I guarantee our best social structures wouldn’t even know what to disclose. This is not an arguement against disclosure - I think everybody will pretty much shrug it off if it happens. The disclosure part I mean. Having it happen to you or your family — and knowing 100% its true — nobody’s ready for that.

Yes I suppose on a personal level if it is happening to you in real time, it's not like you get much choice in what's going to happen. At least not if the aliens don't want you to have any choice. But then again, not all experiences are totally negative. Fear also comes from within and it seems to me that we don't all experience fear over the same things the same way. It's often a learned behavior too. I think for it to be instinctual there needs to be a real and imminent threat by something displaying obvious intent or actions that will cause harm, not simply the presence of something never before experienced.

For example the experiences I had when I was really young when it seemed like I was being floated in a blue light out of my room and through the walls of our house. After it happened a third time I remember wanting it to happen again so that I could experience more of it. Were they just dreams? They didn't feel like dreams. But the point is that either way I didn't see them as nightmares. I hadn't learned about scary aliens that did frightening experiments on beautiful Earth women. The idea that people believed there was actually a big fat guy in a red suit who sneaks into peoples houses around Christmas was actually more disturbing.

 

[Trajanus]

What makes people unready for disclosure any more than stuff that's even worse, like the constant fear Trump is going to do something nuts, push the big red button, and fire the world?

We can always impeach Trump, or vote him out in 2020. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about our "visitors."

It seems to me that people are very resilient, most already believe in alien visitation or at least wouldn't be surprised, and that unpreparedness comes more from ignorance than knowledge.

Yes, it's true that after 70 years, humanity has progressed considerably in terms of its willingness to accept ET. And not all aliens are the terrifying types--a few are actually benevolent. Still, the public isn't fully ready yet.

Sure it might shake some of the institutions up a little. But then again, maybe they need a little shaking up.

Couldn't agree more, but IMO much of the essential shaking up or transformation will occur well before disclosure of ET.

 

[Trajanus]

Yes I suppose on a personal level if it is happening to you in real time, it's not like you get much choice in what's going to happen. At least not if the aliens don't want you to have any choice. But then again, not all experiences are totally negative. Fear also comes from within and it seems to me that we don't all experience fear over the same things the same way. It's often a learned behavior too. I think for it to be instinctual there needs to be a real and imminent threat by something displaying obvious intent or actions that will cause harm, not simply the presence of something never before experienced.

Unfortunately there is a fair amount of evidence for dangerous ETs. But basically I agree. I remember when I was a small kid I was afraid of aliens on TV. But fear in time gave way to fascination.

 

[Constance]

[Article about the secret search for UFOs already covered in another thread.]

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Please see this thread for coverage of the article in The New York Times about secret UFO research:

From The NY Times: Hmmmm.....

 

[Randall]

The Pentagon’s Secret Search for UFOs .... “There was really nothing there that we could justify using taxpayer money,” he added. “We let it die a slow death. It was well spent money in the beginning.”

First off, the program was not "Top Secret" because the article clearly says: "The Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program, whose existence was not classified ..." Secondly it was initiated by a politician whose Wikipedia profile doesn't appear to show he would have the clearances required to get to where the really good stuff would be kept.

 

[Constance]

Please see this thread for coverage of the article in The New York Times about secret UFO research:

From The NY Times: Hmmmm.....

Gene, since not everyone reads all the currently active threads in the Paracast forums, I'm reinstating here this link to the Politico article published today, which you deleted…

 

[Gene Steinberg]

No....these forums are cluttered enough.

Please post it here:

From The NY Times: Hmmmm.....

That's why we have featured forum threads displayed at the top of the forum list, and the Latest Posts listed in the forum sidebar. When we do the major forum upgrade in a couple of weeks from now, the top of the forum list will include the threads getting the most action.

We also make active threads Sticky. So if something is really popular, there are many routes to find it without scattering the discussion.

Please keep it simple for us.

Thanks.

 

[Constance]

No....these forums are cluttered enough.

Please post it here:

From The NY Times: Hmmmm.....

That's why we have featured forum threads displayed at the top of the forum list, and the Latest Posts listed in the forum sidebar. When we do the major forum upgrade in a couple of weeks from now, the top of the forum list will include the threads getting the most action.

We also make active threads Sticky. So if something is really popular, there are many routes to find it without scattering the discussion.

Please keep it simple for us.

Thanks.

"...Please keep it simple for us."

It was simple enough when the POLITICO article appeared in two threads drawing two different groups of readers. But never mind: it's your way or the highway. I'll just make less of an effort next time.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

My forum, my site, my server, my rules. When you have your own forum, you can make any rules you want. But with a quarter of a million messages and counting, I just want to make an attempt to focus things better. Wouldn't you rather look for a few threads on topics you want to follow up rather than dozens?

Let's just move on.

 

[Constance]

My forum, my site, my server, my rules. When you have your own forum, you can make any rules you want. But with a quarter of a million messages and counting, I just want to make an attempt to focus things better. Wouldn't you rather look for a few threads on topics you want to follow up rather than dozens?

That's what I do, and what I gathered most people do. It's why I posted the POLITICO link in both the politics thread and the "ufos: reframing the debate" thread. The POLITICO article is relevant for both threads, and my impression is that not all readers here read both of them. But never mind. As you say:

Let's just move on.

 

[mike]

This palette Caramel Cheesecake Color Palette with pieces of this palette Caramel Color Palette are closest.

It wasn’t one colour. It seemed like a living being - just like our skin is gradiations of colour, so was it’s.

I live in the mountains with very little light pollution, we have an observatory just down the road.
So the nights are very dark, i could just make out the doorway as being a different shade of black. The room itself had a little more light than the hallway.

What i saw seemed to have a faint light blue phosphorescence because i could see it clearly in all that dark.

Not entirely sure, but its something Ive considered might be the case.

It would be elegant in a manufactured bioform though, big black eyes to soak up light and bio luminescence to light your way in dark places.

 

[mike]

The terror isn’t like that. It’s unlike any other experience I’ve ever had - and I’ve been close to death a few times.

It’s like your neocortex goes away. You’re an animal. Rational thought just doesn’t exist.

I have a visceral sense that’s how a prey animal feels when it’s being hunted - imagine a gazelle that just got pounced on by a lion. You know you’re screwed and just react.

It’s a visceral body reaction.

Yep that's the one.

 

[marduk]

I live in the mountains with very little light pollution, we have an observatory just down the road.
So the nights are very dark, i could just make out the doorway as being a different shade of black. The room itself had a little more light than the hallway.

What i saw seemed to have a faint light blue phosphorescence because i could see it clearly in all that dark.

Not entirely sure, but its something Ive considered might be the case.

It would be elegant in a manufactured bioform though, big black eyes to soak up light and bio luminescence to light your way in dark places.

Ya, my current thinking is that they’re a designed species.

Specifically designed to do what they do: sneak around in the middle of the night.

 

[mike]

If what I’ve experienced is real, we’re not ready for disclosure.

Iirc, it was a conversation between Eisenhower and a high ranking official that went along the lines of "Tell the people ?, What do we tell them ?. That they come from god knows where, they want god knows what. And we don't have any way to stop them."

And of course

Winston Churchill was accused of ordering a cover-up of a Second World War encounter between a UFO and a RAF bomber because he feared public "panic" and loss of faith in religion, newly released secret files disclose.

UFO files: Winston Churchill 'feared panic' over Second World War RAF incident

And thrown into the search for that link these pop up

UFOs not extraterrestrial - creation.com

If the target world was gripped by the local superstition, and many if not most of its inhabitants were likely to believe that narrative ie UFO=Satan Would you land and try and shake hands ?

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

The race between China and US over so called contact .

 

[marduk]

The race between China and US over so called contact .

Honestly, I don’t think either one has anything we don’t have.

I don’t think we see the best out of humanity in either one’s government or military structures. And if we don’t know anything, they probably know even less.

Besides, these things bypass our human power structures like they don’t exist.

 

[mike]

I honestly don't think meaningful disclosure is going to come from our side at this point in our intellectual evolution.
Even if they had an open day at area 51 and trotted out the sports model and a grey.
The skeptics will still say they are props, and the superstitious will say Satan.

And that applies if they park a mother ship over London New york Tokyo and Rome.

It will be oh noes PBB.
Project Blue Beam - RationalWiki

I think the best way is for us to Tech up and become space-faring ourselves, and i suspect that's the plan from their pov too.

I imagine the galactic trend is species that get to this point usually have sorted out their neurosis by the time they do.

Especially if that species has evolved to a post biological status, all those hot hormones and biological imperatives get left behind.