Robert Hastings...

[Drew UK]

Visitors are here, with the ability to breach nuclear systems - friend or foe / Peaceful or Hostile.

The physicist S.Hawkin, states the following and it has got much support in the science fraternity and its related fields.

"Any advanced intelligent being, who came here would immediately be hostile - so it's all a load of " - I think this detracts from the form of thinking -
1. War and conflict are a catalyst for technological advancement, and any being that would possess intelligent devices would also have the appetite for destruction.
2. Human history has always favoured aggresivity over peace and colonisation or initial discovery of lands was always followed by the "advanced" peoples over the "developing" peoples.

Both these criterias are falsehoods.
True, wars do motivate us to design things quicker and faster but are not necessarily a function for intelligent design - I don't think we were under threat during the computer revolution of the 80's/90's. Progress has been made also, in enhanced communication, teamwork, building of civilisation and society than walking around in cavesuits bashing each over the head with wooden clubs. Intelligence is by it's nature peace and patience - without the need for arrogance.
It's the politicians who hijack all the spadework done by our intelligent people and then go and put warheads on it.
- I hope I don't sound too hippyish

On the second issue - let us use America as an example and go back to the 1500's. Our european ancestors did not come to these shores with the goal of wiping out the American Indian population - in fact most of the decimation was carried out by the inadvertent transmission of disease. The motive was to obtain land, get rich and find gold,silver,sugar and tobacco to transport it back to the motherland at good profit. Unfortunately, the pressure of greed and survival (in an unknown territory) and other lands created the obliteration and extermination of the native peoples. Religion just helped to rubber stamp it "heathen".

On this issue, we have to look at a different paradigm.
A paradigm of an advanced visitor, and I would expect that with such advancement a relevant need of material essence is no longer appropriate.
Why fight if there's nothing worth fighting for?

People appreciate peace if they have abundance of the things they need. Technological advancements bring abundance. Who knows maybe one day, us Homo Sapiens might be satisfied?

Unfortunately - here is the credit crisis. See my previous post on the coming international conflict.
Was it Clint Eastwood who said in one of the spaghetti westerns after recieving a reward and the fear that he may commit more violence. "People appreciate peace, when they have money in there hands."

This is my opinion, These Visitors do not have hostility towards us.
My second opinion, These visitors do not have friendships either. - I can elaborate another time.

[Drew UK]

Theres no I in team but there is in Friend.

Friendships always have the idea involved "Whats in it for me?"

All reasonable relationships are based on some form of payback in return for generosity or mutual need.
See what happens when your next down the pub with your mates and decide that you won't buy them any drinks - usually the opposite will soon take form - a downward spiral of enmity and a continuous reciprication of "getting one over" your fellow being - see previous post.

So what do we offer? What can we offer? - can we really engage in any possible meaningful relationship - the answer is absoultely NO.

This "relationship" - more appropriate to call it an interaction - is asymmetrical and the words and feelings "enemies,foes, friends, hostility,peace" - serve no purpose, other to reinforce our human sentiments and clouds our judgement in getting further into this topic - and should be extinguished from this debate.

The more I hear about this phenomenon the more I get the impression of a "Doctor and Patient" or "Scientist and Specimen" interaction, again the terms friend and foe have no bearing on such an interaction.
But I do not rule out a duty of care/domestication as we do with our "lesser" organisms in the animal kingdom. If I believed the contrary, we are a pest that needs to be eradicated - I think we would know by now, and I would not be writing this email.

So, Why the Aloofness?........................................ ....

[CapnG]

Originally Posted by Drew UK

So, Why the Aloofness?

Stanton Friedman has been adding a new line to his schpiel lately "There are squirrels in my backyard but I don't try to have a conversation with them..."

[Mothra]

Originally Posted by CapnG

Stanton Friedman has been adding a new line to his schpiel lately "There are squirrels in my backyard but I don't try to have a conversation with them..."

I talk to the squirrels in my yard, doesn't everybody?

[schticknz]

Originally Posted by Mothra

I talk to the squirrels in my yard, doesn't everybody?

I live in New Zealand ... so only if they have a cell phone .. brmmm tschhh

However I did used to talk to the wasps that used to hover around the bush at the bottom of the garden when I lived in a house in Wales ... strangely enough it was always a one way conversation ... wasps are not very talkative creatures .

Now back to your scheduled Paracast thread topic thing ...

[noddwyd]

My take on this is that it is a simple warning. Why would they bother? Maybe nuclear missiles bring up bad memories, like

'hey, remember that time we totally destroyed our planet and had to move to a new one, and how it totally sucked?'

'Yeah, why the hell did you have to bring that up again?'

'Check it out. These idiots have the capability to do the same thing.'

'Great.'

'Let's mess with their heads and activate one of them.'

[Drew UK]

So, why the Aloofness?......

Concealment and Secrecy has many advantages.

In a war scenario it can be used as a precursor to the suprise attack, or simply used as a mode of defense.
Although, as I already stated I do not think that war is relevant to dicuss on this subject, current episodes in the world offer an ability to get an insight into asymmetry (which I think is key to understanding what is happening here).

The USA currently spends more in its defense budget than the summation of all the other ministries of defense in the world. It's technological demonstration - Nimitz carrierships, Los Angeles Class Nuclear Submarines, its strategic deployment all over the world is an example of super advanced superiority that no other power could rival.
Yet, despite this it still struggles to "win wars" in Iraq and Afghanistan. A bunch of bandits with rocket launches and AK47's..
This is the problem with asymmetrical engagement - that technology is not necessarily a function of success.

Technological advancement is best kept as a symbol of power, not as a tool to win wars. This, is why here in the UK our defense budget is mainly aimed at our class of Trident Submarines - the nuclear submarine is probably one of the most effective designs in warfare to date. Hidden, Out of sight, Out of mind, but with the capabilities to bring countries in the world to there knees in minutes.

If America is to retain its dominance in the world it needs to move back to strategies of concealment and secrecy -changing regimes from within and at a distance, instead of peacock "shock and awe!!" tatics which will only create indifference and gradually wear american influence (power) away in the world.

Although, I have drifted of topic and I repeatedly suggest that I do not think that the above as anything to do with the phenomenon - I just want to keep this in mind as I go further.

[Drew UK]

So, why the aloofness? (partIII)........

dPdX >/= h/4(pi) [Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle]

From my previous analysis, I tried to explain the asymmetrical patterns regarding the UFO phenomenon. Discarding the valence as irrelevant in this topic and moving towards experimentative purposes surrounding this issue. Underlining this, from more reliable sources (in an unreliable background) I want to move to the aloofness in which so many of these examples manifest - the bearing will be -

How can observation affect the outcome of an experiment?

To perform a legitimate experiment experiment or scientific project, the observer must observe the results of a system in motion without influencing those results.

On Measurability and observation.
All tools of measurability are rated to the same scale on which they aim to measure - hence looking through a telescope to detect bacteria will not yield much information.

Consequently, for anything to visualise us "in our world" it must also enter into the same dimensional frequencies and parameters "of our world".

HUP.
"In any attempt to observe an electron or subatomic particle using light, you must scan that essence at the same frequency and energy of light to determine any value of the position or momentum of that particle or electron. However, by using that light or energy it ultimately has the effect of interfering with the particle that the precision becomes inaccurate- hence uncertain. The solution? - not yet put into theory/and not tested to my knowledge is to "mask that energy".

This although identified with the Quantum level can also be brought into our classical existance when studying "in vivo"

SQUIRRELS??
When studying the wilderbeast in the safari, to observe them in there natural state and habitat it is necessary to get close enough to see whats going on, but not too close enough to reveal ourselves - unfortunately, we got spotted by the dominant male and this lead to the whole herd making for us. Luckily we was in our 4x4 and we outpaced them no problem - one got too close, so I had to tranquilise it. This is the nature of the beast and a function of there primitive characteristic. We will go back next week to a different herd and try to be more careful about being spotted.

OUT OF THE CAGE.
The head of the herd has decided that the dominant males will not make for us any more, and the herd choose to ignore us more from the pressure of the dominant males , something tell us given the history of this beast it's a trap to bring us in closer?

So, what is the study about?.........................................

[mike]

Originally Posted by CapnG

Stanton Friedman has been adding a new line to his schpiel lately "There are squirrels in my backyard but I don't try to have a conversation with them..."

there is something in that line of thought, i have a very smart rottweiller (hed want to be for $1,500) he uses tools and creates artifacts, in that he will bounce a tennis ball and catch it all by himself. if an upstairs window is open he will bring the ball and drop it out and watch it bounce, he creates earthworks in the back yard, but even if i could speak to him in his own limited language, even if i could do it mind to mind, he will never have the "framework" for me to be able to explain a trip to the vets and all the things including the transport such an event would entail.

looking at hubble's deep field images im convinced the universe is teeming with life, and that interstellar space flight is so old and common, that those species who dont have it, do in that context fall into a similar category as my furry friend. for all that he seems clever with his ball and bag of doggy tricks, hes not ever going to be driving himself to the vet

a chimp/human hybrid might one day be able to

[Drew UK]

for all that he seems clever with his ball and bag of doggy tricks, hes not ever going to be driving himself to the vet


So, let the veternary surgeon come to him.