Nick Redfern's New Book Sounds Intriguing!

I've never heard of the Collin's Elite before however, if Jeff Sharlet's The Family is right there is a contingent of Christian fundamentalism in powerful positions of power and influence within the government. It makes sense that those people would see UFOs/UAPs as demonic by default. Sounds like an interesting book. I'd love to hear him talk about how he researched it.

Aye, this sounds really interesting, will nip over to Amazon to have a squint at it. From what I remember of Nick speaking briefly about this book on a podcast (Dark Matters maybe)? I don't think he himself bought the theory, but was just documenting their beliefs. Would definitely be a good subject for the show.

There's an interesting interview with Nick at The Secret Sun blog:
The Secret Sun: Final Events: Interview with Nick Redfern

The beliefs of this group he mentions there remind me of that book "The Dark Gods" by Anthony Roberts & Geoff Gilbertson, except re-interpreted in a Christian light. (Think there's been a discussion of it on here before, if not it melds the ideas of Keel and Lovecraft that there's sinister entities behind various aspects of the paranormal, feeding off negative human emotions).

I'm almost done reading it, and it's pretty crazy. I'm going to be pretty bitter if I am forced to become a Fundamentalist Christian because of this book.

Hah! Decent read then? I'm due some overtime, so will have a splurge on books when it comes through, reckon I'll pick this up then.

It's definitely intriguing. There's a brand-new Roswell explanation in there, too.

Defining the unknown by the undefined (such as calling it demonic) is only playing the age-old hate and/or fear game, a beloved pastime of 'born-againers', 'the saved', 'Have you accepted Jesus as your Personal Savior' people, 'washed in The Blooders'. and the rest of Christian fundamentalists.

Living in hate or fear of 'the other', dualism [It's of the devil, it's demonic!], is evidence of being caught-up in delusion, according to the most ancient of oriental philosophy, and there might be an important lesson there. In the Mahasamyatta Sutra, the Buddha is depicted making temporary peace between the Nagas and the Garudas.

Garudas are described as incredible huge bird-type beings, and their form is seen on the flag and seals of at least five eastern nations today. Nagas are described in eastern literature as having the form of a serpent.

It seems the Buddha saw beyond the dualism of temporal form. Perhaps he even saw what science knows today, that birds, being feathered dinosaurs, are reptiles, and serpents are of course, reptiles. He sought to be the peacemaker, to point toward commonalities instead of focusing upon differences

Very unlike the Buddha, some paranoids interested in UFOs act like fundamentalist Christians, making a religion about, and fearing, "reptilians".

I question that such are even visiting (or present on) earth, as published accounts claiming such are not scientifically credible, except as folklore. Yet, believers in reptilian bipeds, hating and fearing what they imagine, fall into the same box as fundamentalist Christians. They even imagine that many humans are 'reptilians', hating those individuals whom they think are reptilians, while failing to notice that no human-like biped has ever been shown to exist, much less any human shown to have reptilian DNA! Ironic, isn't it?

Well, if they say they're actually talking of reptilian SOULS inhabiting human bodies, that's surprising too. I don't know that souls have DNA, reptilian or otherwise. BTW, reptiles are just part of terrestrial evolution, no more evil or good than any other class of animals. Reptiles even help us humans in eating mice, rats, and other things that trouble our food supply.

A human-like reptilian,
Has never been seen!
Yet I know that one lives,
In the rumor machine. :redface:
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But, Christopher O'Brien, defining what's not understood as 'The Trickster' seems to be the same mistake fundamentalist Christians make. It's just a bit more intellectualized, but as unscientific as the fundamentalist surrendering rational analysis to comfortably closeting certain realities into a semantic box and locking them there to never be properly examined. It's a mistake regardless of how many wonderful stories one has collected which cannot at present be understood as to causation.

Now as to wonderful stories by the dozens, that's not to say that well thought-out books about what you call The Trickster aren't worth reading. Yours, Mr. O'Brien, surely is, and regardless of the title, its really engrossing. I'd only caution that semantic boxes, even intellectualized ones, don't lead to knowledge and comprehension, although doing so might be fun or even comforting.

About Redfern's works, analytical readers typically don't tend to find writers like him very credible. [I've purchased and read three of his books, in case someone asks.] He writes so many volumes in such short a time, that it's clear he cannot be doing cautious, in-depth studies of his interesting subjects. Otherwise it would be longer between his books, and we'd learn a lot more that's reliable from their pages. Mr. Redfern's books read, for me, as if they're just highly rushed 'pot boilers' -- interesting, but ultimately unsatisfying. They read easily but are soon forgotten.

That's fine if we're looking for amusing or intriguing snacks of questionable quality. but let's not mistake 'cracklins' (fried pork skin) for fillet mignon.

Sorry, Nick, but doubtless you'd fare better to realize that depth and real caution are important to your readers. We're not just average blokes and blokesses :redface: [Yes, I know.], for goodness sake, as most on this forum might agree.

Arthur Dalvan

I see trainedobserver beat me to it in thinking that this sounded like "The Family". Groups like "The Family" and the "Collins Elite" (If it exists) being in the government are actually much scarier than any demonic whatever phenomenon could possibly be. Maybe it's part of a larger paranoia that this writer talks about:

The Rude Pundit

What does he mean by a "staged Trojan-horse type operation"? Of course I take all the new Roswell "explanations" with a grain of salt. Some years, ago, Nick was advocating a crash (i.e. accident) involving Japanese POWs, or people with progeria, now this....

>I'm going to be pretty bitter if I am forced to become a Fundamentalist Christian because of this book.

I don’t think the theology of the “Collins Elite” has much to do with any sort of mainstream or fundamentalist Christianity. Christianity generally teaches that you are born once and then the judgment, followed by eternal punishment or reward depending upon your previous acceptance of the sacrifice of the son of the god of Abraham. There isn’t any soul recycling through rebirth or consumption by demonic forces. Fallen angels or demons are destined to be eternally punished themselves.

The theology of the Collins Elite sounds more like what John Lear or “Bro.” Michael Dimond has been “preaching” for sometime now.

Of course all of this sort of talk (UFOs are demons) is predicated on the belief in human "souls" or "life force energy" for which there is no scientific basis for and in fact all evidence suggests nothing like a "soul" exists to be "consumed" or "recycled." If anything this just confirms that people capable of achieving positions of power and influence are not immune to religious driven hysteria.

Lol, I'll say.

I hope the episode about Nick's new and honestly fascinating book is already scheduled.

Can someone post the names of the members of the C.E. mentioned in the book?

This is no criticism of Nick mind you, but you know the very idea of trying to impose some sort of religious dictatorship based on the O.T. in the U.S. is pretty absurd. First off, the theocratic system of government in the O.T. is based on a priesthood, animal sacrifices, and depending on what period you are talking about, involves kings, a system of judges, and other things no one in their right mind would think transferable to the United States. I assume they are actually speaking of some system of control that tries to make everyone adhere to someone's interpretation of the "moral code" of the O.T. That in itself is a another absurd notion given that there are over 600 commandments in the O.T., and not just ten, most of which would require a great deal of "interpretation" to shoehorn into the modern world. Maybe there is another angle I'm not seeing.

I look forward to reading the book and hearing Nick talk more about his experience of writing it, which to me is as interesting as the subject matter.

"If it sounds too crazy, it might be true." Let's face it, Nick is putting out books left and right (not to diminish that, he's a good author and I own 3 books from him), but this one somehow has me worried.

I'm not sure I follow you. I don't doubt people exist that believe these things, shoot there are already websites and organizations pushing the UFOs are demons business. Its not much of a stretch to imagine people in positions of power and influence falling for it either.

Sorry, it wasn't meant to be followed, just a general observation, why I posted it eludes me right know.

I am also sure that at least the mindset that UFOS are 'Demons' exists. Demonic UFOs - Paul Christopher - The Prophecy Club , i actually watched this he makes a few good points in the beginning, but .... it's just ridiculous.

It is difficult to watch. His cadence is a bit distracting. He doesn't seem to be able to recognize hoaxes (like the Ashtar nonsense and the Adamski hoax) but instead just absorbs them into his belief system. I think the vast fantasy world represented by certain aspects of the UFO community is certainly fertile ground for magical thinking, true-believer types to mine "confirmations" of their bible based beliefs.

He takes the "Contactees" entirely too seriously and seems willing to believe their unsupportable and discredited claims as long it confirms his own beliefs. However, I think there is a reason to be concerned if people in positions of influence and power are doing the same, which is the point of Nick's book I guess.

It is really telling that this fellow never (as far as I've watched anyway) alludes to the fact the history of things like contactees, channelers, Ouija boards, automatic handwriting, spiritualism, and what have you are full of frauds, hoaxes, and charlatans. I guess it would be counter productive to tell your audience that known delusional and or dishonest people have been involved in the dodgy paranormal/supernatural/UFO business from the get go.

Google 'the prophecy club', it doesn't get more christian with a load full of fundamentalism then that.