Matthew Williams, Circlemaker

[wwkirk]

Matt was an interesting guest. But in spite of debunking the idea that complex circles are other than man made, I thought he corroborated Colin Andrews take. Just like Colin, Matt believes there are paranormal aspects in the inspiration of the circles.

 

[DaveM]

I felt Mr. Williams made light of being caught and arrested making crop circles. The fact is, as Gene stated, he was trespassing and then destroying a farmer's crop. He shouldn't have been too surprised when he got busted.

 

[Constance]

I just listened to the interview with MW. It was a well-laundered version of the history of crop circles and of the organized hoaxing program in Wiltshire centered at Circlemakers.org. MW hardly mentions that core group, and indeed he's never been part of their 'inner circle', though he might be employed by the same people who have employed the core group (not only to hoax crop circles but to produce disinformation concerning crop circles and cc research and to add to existing disinformation concerning ufo history).

 

[Constance]

I felt Mr. Williams made light of being caught and arrested making crop circles. The fact is, as Gene stated, he was trespassing and then destroying a farmer's crop. He shouldn't have been too surprised when he got busted.

Agreed. Especially when he'd attempted to recruit one researcher to help him trick another.

The main question to be asked about cc hoaxing in Wiltshire, as I see it, is why it's gone on as a major pasttime in Wiltshire for more than 35 years and why it's so important to the people who have become key spokespersons for it to continue to pound away with the 'allmanmade' claim (even extending the effort by requesting to be interviewed on the Paracast).

The pounding away over there gets propagated primarily through internet message boards and has reduced much of the cc conversation to diatribes and even character assassinations of prominent researchers who remain unconvinced that all crop circles have been manmade. The human ccmakers who perpetuate these diatribes and character assassinations seek to persuade anyone who will listen to them that literally 'all crop circles are manmade', meaning not just crop circles in the cc hoaxing capital of the world but everywhere and over a very long time (for crop circles [plural] have been observed, reported, and even written about over several centuries, in the UK and elsewhere).

I don't see a rational motivation for the efforts exercised up to the present day in Wiltshire to sell the 'all-manmade' claim. Most people in the world who are interested in crop circles realize that humans can and do make many impressive crop circles (primarily in Wiltshire). That in itself does not (cannot) account for all crop circles worldwide, many of which do exhibit anomalies of biological, mineralogical, and physical kinds. Williams's meagre effort in the Paracast interview to discredit Levengood's research indicates how little the 'allmanmade' contingent has done to refute that research. Chris asked a pertinent question about whether Williams or his ccmaking colleagues had pursued an explanation for the high EM energies measured in a demonstration circle he had produced for some researchers including Simeon Hein. This is a research question that could easily have been explored in making a number of test formations in different circumstances (variations in light, humidity, temperature, degree of moisture in the soil, crop types, etc.). Williams's answer was that he and his colleagues have not pursued such an effort. I wonder why not when it could strengthen the claim that some apparent cc anomalies, at least, can occur in manmade formations.

But rhetoric is easier than research, especially since most of the scientific research that went on in Wiltshire in the 90s was discouraged (in effect made intractable before it could be completed) by several well-organized manipulations presented before the media (including Doug and Dave's 'confession'). So rhetoric it is these days, and in my opinion an opportunity lost to pursue some significant anomalies showing up in our time.

 

[dr.abbadon]

Agreed. Especially when he'd attempted to recruit one researcher to help him trick another.

The main question to be asked about cc hoaxing in Wiltshire, as I see it, is why it's gone on as a major pasttime in Wiltshire for more than 35 years and why it's so important to the people who have become key spokespersons for it to continue to pound away with the 'allmanmade' claim (even extending the effort by requesting to be interviewed on the Paracast).

The pounding away over there gets propagated primarily through internet message boards and has reduced much of the cc conversation to diatribes and even character assassinations of prominent researchers who remain unconvinced that all crop circles have been manmade. The human ccmakers who perpetuate these diatribes and character assassinations seek to persuade anyone who will listen to them that literally 'all crop circles are manmade', meaning not just crop circles in the cc hoaxing capital of the world but everywhere and over a very long time (for crop circles [plural] have been observed, reported, and even written about over several centuries, in the UK and elsewhere).

I don't see a rational motivation for the efforts exercised up to the present day in Wiltshire to sell the 'all-manmade' claim. Most people in the world who are interested in crop circles realize that humans can and do make many impressive crop circles (primarily in Wiltshire). That in itself does not (cannot) account for all crop circles worldwide, many of which do exhibit anomalies of biological, mineralogical, and physical kinds. Williams's meagre effort in the Paracast interview to discredit Levengood's research indicates how little the 'allmanmade' contingent has done to refute that research. Chris asked a pertinent question about whether Williams or his ccmaking colleagues had pursued an explanation for the high EM energies measured in a demonstration circle he had produced for some researchers including Simeon Hein. This is a research question that could easily have been explored in making a number of test formations in different circumstances (variations in light, humidity, temperature, degree of moisture in the soil, crop types, etc.). Williams's answer was that he and his colleagues have not pursued such an effort. I wonder why not when it could strengthen the claim that some apparent cc anomalies, at least, can occur in manmade formations.

But rhetoric is easier than research, especially since most of the scientific research that went on in Wiltshire in the 90s was discouraged (in effect made intractable before it could be completed) by several well-organized manipulations presented before the media (including Doug and Dave's 'confession'). So rhetoric it is these days, and in my opinion an opportunity lost to pursue some significant anomalies showing up in our time.

Chris you just summed up this entire interview completely!
So, we should take his word when he says he has made a CC without one iota of evidence? Yet any and all researchers are tin foil hat wearing basket cases...because a former customs officer, who's principal job was filing away paper work and who curses like a sailor is completely trust worthy???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jimi H.]

I just listened to the interview with MW. It was a well-laundered version of the history of crop circles and of the organized hoaxing program in Wiltshire centered at Circlemakers.org. MW hardly mentions that core group, and indeed he's never been part of their 'inner circle', though he might be employed by the same people who have employed the core group (not only to hoax crop circles but to produce disinformation concerning crop circles and cc research and to add to existing disinformation concerning ufo history).

You sound very hurt and teary that someone would reveal the crop circle mystery as man made. But that's your problem.

No one hoaxed anything, rather the believers loaded the circles with imaginary significance, to the point where it has become like a religion where the non-believers must be stoned. If you disagree, please explain what the hoax consists of? Are they not real crop circles? To hoax something, a real something must be present. Where is the real one you use to gauge the others as 'hoaxes'?

I think the real pity is hearing how someone like Linda Mouton Howe refuses to acknowledge reality, to keep her thing going, even beating the man with an umbrealla. It's dishonorable and childish.

 

[Jimi H.]

..

The pounding away over there gets propagated primarily through internet message boards and has reduced much of the cc conversation to diatribes and even character assassinations of prominent researchers who remain unconvinced that all crop circles have been manmade. The human ccmakers who perpetuate these diatribes and character assassinations seek to persuade anyone who will listen to them that literally 'all crop circles are manmade', meaning not just crop circles in the cc hoaxing capital of the world but everywhere and over a very long time (for crop circles [plural] have been observed, reported, and even written about over several centuries, in the UK and elsewhere)....

Bullshit. You are the one commiting a character assassination here, but without the elegance of Matthew Williams, who explained that he kindly offered to show 'researchers' (the word seems to get more and more tainted) exactly how circles were done, long ago. They refused, they were not interested in reality.

You need to prove that what Matthew explained as completely normal biological processes is something strange and paranormal. Until you can do that, well, it seems to me that you've got your head planted firmly in the sand, and rely on hearsay and unreliable accounts of unreliable readings, to support your case.

Your suggestions of a conspiracy to spread disinformation sound shrill.

 

[Jimi H.]

Chris you just summed up this entire interview completely!
So, we should take his word when he says he has made a CC without one iota of evidence? Yet any and all researchers are tin foil hat wearing basket cases..

Hilarious. You think it's as or more likely that aliens drew a crop circle, as a couple of known circle makers doing it after a pint at the pub?!

because a former customs officer, who's principal job was filing away paper work and who curses like a sailor is completely trust worthy??? ..

Oh yea, more character assasination based on nothing, stay classy tinfoilers... How about all the paranormal 'researchers' with fake credentials, who won't listen or see the evidence for themselves, is that better for ya'?

 

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

I felt Mr. Williams made light of being caught and arrested making crop circles. The fact is, as Gene stated, he was trespassing and then destroying a farmer's crop. He shouldn't have been too surprised when he got busted.

And to think he had the nerve to lay blame at the foot of visitors to crop circle sites for damaging the farmer's crop! I thought Gene and Chris should have held his feet to the fire over that one. He is by all intents and purposes a criminal trying to make out that he's the good guy.

 

[Jimi H.]

... He is by all intents and purposes a criminal trying to make out that he's the good guy.

Ohhhh, yes, stone him, stone him, the evil mastermind of a few crop circles!

Anyways, he went to court and confessed, seems he took it like a man, no?

 

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

Hilarious. You think it's as or more likely that aliens drew a crop circle, as the likelyhood of a couple of known circle makers did it after a pint at the pub?!


Oh yea, more character assasination based on nothing, stay classy tinfoilers... How about all the paranormal 'researchers' with fake credentials, who won't listen or see the evidence for themselves, is that better for ya'?

Sounds like you've got something riding on this. Why are you getting so upset over a bunch of patterns in a field? Are you a ccmaker?

 

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

Ohhhh, yes, stone him, stone him, the evil mastermind of a few crop circles!

Anyways, he went to court and confessed, seems he took it like a man, no?

No, there's no need to stone the guy. I just didn't like the way he tried to brush it off as if he was the good guy in all this. Kudos for admitting his guilt, but like he said, Strieber had the goods on him anyway so he probably felt it was better to fess up rather than end up being caught lying which would have looked even worse.

 

[dr.abbadon]

Hilarious. You think it's as or more likely that aliens drew a crop circle, as the likelyhood of a couple of known circle makers did it after a pint at the pub?!


Oh yea, more character assasination based on nothing, stay classy tinfoilers... How about all the paranormal 'researchers' with fake credentials, who won't listen or see the evidence for themselves, is that better for ya'?

I actually didn't state what I thought about the topic. I personally don't believe ET and friends(if they actually exist) flew through time and space and then only to try and communicate with us via a wheat field.

I don't know what crop circles are 100%...you don't either for that matter. Are many of them created by humans..yes it's been well documented. What I just can't stomach is Mr Williams all too convenient story telling without ANY evidence of the crop making.

I'm not questioning the fact that crop circles are created by aliens, I'm questioning why Mr Williams after the year 2000. as he says by his own admission, stopped making circles, has continued to vehemently deny the existence of the alien connection between CC creation? He says in his video to the people in the audience, I've waited so long to reveal the truth about crop circles and I think 10 years is long enough for me to do so....but in 2oo2 he hosted the media and anyone else that wantéd to listen to him to a "live" show divulging the "secrets" of the CC community?

what about this little tidbit he got wrong...

How can this claim that he made the Basket Weave as a result of being prosecuted be true? He was prosecuted AFTER the arrival of the Basket!

August 6th 1999 – Bishops Cannings Basket Weave formation.
August 25th 2000 - West Overton formation, which lead to the prosecution.

Read the whole article here

PLANKER PRESENTATION FAILS TO CONVINCE - 13/06/2002
In his obsessive drive to persuade the world that crop formations are all man-made art, planker Matthew Williams recently set up his own live presentation at Devizes Town Hall. MARY BENNETT found his arguments seriously wanting…


On Monday May 27th 2002, those interested in matters crop were invited to attend a free meeting at Devizes Town Hall, Wiltshire, so that the only prosecuted planker on the planet could tell us the truth about crop circles. However, this generous invitation did not take into account the fact that most crop circle researchers do not actually live and work in Wiltshire, so it was unrealistic to expect that everyone interested in this subject would be able to attend a weekday event, even if it was a freebie. Of the local population, thirty-three people thought his invitation worth accepting and 25% of those were obviously close acquaintances of the speaker. Although it started later than advertised, when Matthew Williams (for it was he) finally got under way it was well worth waiting for – but perhaps not for the reasons stated on the invitation.

It turns out that Williams thinks that by making a crop circle he is opening himself to the possibility of interacting with paranormal phenomena. But it soon became clear-ish that this did not include ‘Aliens’ (his word, not mine). He even objected to the word ‘earthlings’. I was not entirely clear as to why this should be, except that this word implies the existence of ‘non-earthlings’. This part of his talk was totally unfocused and full of vague generalisations. Indeed, it was a striking demonstration of Williams’s virtually complete lack of awareness of the current scientific research concerning the subjects he is supposedly interested in. However, by the end of this section something emerged from the mist: I was left with the impression that it was of paramount importance that we all understand that extra-terrestrials had nothing to do with the actual making of crop circles.

Over the centuries better minds than his have created their own magic spaces in order to interact with the paranormal, without finding it necessary to plank crop to death. Williams justified his planking activities by saying that the farmer is able to pick up the laid crop, and that it doesn’t cost them as much as they say it does - a bit of cheek that took my breath away, since, according to the farmers I have spoken to, it is generally NOT possible to recover the crop completely and weather, animals and time can degrade the remains so that they spoil the ground for a further season, which means that most of the planked area is lost twice. Even in immature crop, planking makes for a significant percentage of broken stems, the crop then dies and is not the life enhancing foodstuff it was growing to be. It is therefore useless to the food chain. Williams and his ilk - while supposedly wishing us all to live in truth - contribute in a small but selfish way, to the problems on this planet, for these include deceit, as well as hunger.

Paradoxically, it was at this point that Williams then demonstrated that he can’t possibly be truly interested in the idea that crop circles facilitate interaction with paranormal phenomena. Robustly ticking off crop circle researchers for having forgotten, or not understanding, that the actual location of a circle has a great importance in this whole process, he then proceeded to demonstrate that he himself had not the slightest idea of the locations of virtually all the circles he had selected for his very own slide show! This ignorance was not due to bad memory, for he didn’t even know the location of last year’s important formations, such as the ‘Angel’. Assisted by a member of the audience, he stumbled through his slides, with no shame whatsoever, justifying his ignorance by saying that he only knew the circles of Wiltshire, while placing a Wiltshire crop circle in Kent. (Consultation with ‘assistant’) “No, sorry, west Kent” (consultation) “No, sorry! Kent” (consultation) “Oh! West Kennet!” Which is what his ‘assistant’ had been saying all along. This little exercise showed me that he wasn’t very interested in crop circles at all.

Williams then explained how even the very large and complex formations such as the Woodborough Hill ‘Torus’ and the Avebury ‘Magnetic Field’ were made by humans. And how it was possible to do this. If you had visited these, or indeed ANY of the complex or simple formations he attempted to describe, his words were utterly implausible, and if you hadn’t, they were still remarkably lacking in conviction. Never mind the lack of mathematical and geometrical detail, what was missing most from all of this was the authority that comes when someone speaks from experience. But the best bit was yet to come: taking a leap of imagination too high, he came a complete cropper, if you will forgive the pun.

Williams gave us a long and descriptive story of the apparent creation of the 1999 ‘Basket Weave’ formation by himself and a fellow planker. We were told that he was angry with the pain of HAVING BEEN PROSECUTED for simply attempting to bring everyone (and crop circle researchers in particular) ‘the truth’ as to the origin of crop circles. As a catharsis, he had THEN GONE OUT and made the Basket Weave formation. He made the woven floor; “Quite easy to do really”. His fellow planker made the circular components. At the time, his friend was cross with Williams, thinking that he had ruined a rather nice design with such intricacies; “We left the circle rather despondently. But later when we saw the aerial photograph, we realised how well we’d done, after all.” As questions were not allowed during the talk, this was greeted with silence (incredulity on my part). Then, after nearly two and a half hours, we finally reached the interval and the audience drifted towards the bar, prior to question time. Since I had another engagement I had to reserve my question for this article:

How can this claim that he made the Basket Weave as a result of being prosecuted be true? He was prosecuted AFTER the arrival of the Basket!

August 6th 1999 – Bishops Cannings Basket Weave formation.
August 25th 2000 - West Overton formation, which lead to the prosecution.

So Williams’s story CANNOT BE TRUE. If he does not know these dates, then at the very least he needs a calendar. But if he is aware of the dating of these two formations, the lengthy and vivid description of his cathartic act is deliberate disinformation. And he has told this story more than once. However, since his story is so easily shown to be untrue, one has to wonder why it is so important that Williams claim the Basket Weave formation as man-made?

The results of biological research undertaken on crop circles informs us that something other than hoaxing/diddling/planking is going on in some formations. If the plankers of this world stood back, we would get a clearer picture. But that is precisely the point. They are not doing this for any artistic reasons or for any ‘paranormal jolly’ (which they could aspire to in an authentic circle). They are doing it to confuse and to slow down our ability to understand what is going on here, and they are attempting to create division and stress within the local communities in which these authentic events occur and to which they gravitate for their plank. Those farmers who do have an authentic event on their land have enough to cope with; they do not need irresponsible plankers adding to their workload.

Apparently ignoring the fact that everyone has the right to their own ideas and that in this particular subject there is room - and perhaps even the requirement - for a multitude of opinions, Williams wonders why many crop circle researchers did not attend this talk, don’t care to talk to him about crop circles, or accept his truth. The pragmatic reasons for their absence from Devizes have been dealt with. Indeed, he should be thankful that they were not there to question him more closely. As for accepting his version of events, on this last showing he has answered his own question: It would be beyond foolish to rely on his information as a valid tool for those interested in crop glyphs (my word not his), their meanings and their origins.

MARY BENNETT

I take a stab at it for you...he has made a business out of doing the rounds and riding the "skeptic" wave presenting his "truths" to people who have drunk the same cool aid as he has. He is no different to any of the nutjobs doing the same on the other side of the "believers" camp.

 

[Jimi H.]

.. Strieber had the goods on him anyway so he probably felt it was better to fess up rather than end up being caught lying which would have looked even worse.

Oh wow, you actually think Strieber was the cool guy when he ratted on Matthew? That's pretty sad.

 

[Jimi H.]

Sounds like you've got something riding on this. Why are you getting so upset over a bunch of patterns in a field? Are you a ccmaker?

Lol, no, I think you believers sound pretty upset, actually. But I'm upset with the irrational zealotry and the will to throw blame on the messenger.

 

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

Oh wow, you actually think Strieber was the cool guy when he ratted on Matthew? That's pretty sad.

Did I actually say that? Why don't you go back and re-read what I wrote. Seems like you're having reading comprehension difficulties. I said that Williams figured out he had to admit his guilt because Strieber had the evidence. That's what he said during the interview. I didn't mention anything about Strieber being a "cool guy" as you put it. Now try again...

 

[Jimi H.]

..
I don't know what crop circles are 100%...you don't either for that matter. ..

Until you can PROVE otherwise, I know exactly how those circles are made, and so do you, they are made by people.

 

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

Lol, no, I think you believers sound pretty upset, actually. But I'm upset with the irrational zealotry and the will to throw guilt on the messenger.

Where did I say that I'm a "believer" in crop circles? Or at least in the theory that aliens make them?

You seem to like putting words into people's mouths. Take a deep breath...and calm down.

 

[Jimi H.]

Did I actually say that? Why don't you go back and re-read what I wrote. Seems like you're having reading comprehension difficulties. I said that Williams figured out he had to admit his guilt because Strieber had the evidence. That's what he said during the interview. I didn't mention anything about Strieber being a "cool guy" as you put it. Now try again...

I think I got the gist of what you were saying when you explained that Matthew shouldn't be allowed to come off as 'the good guy'.

 

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

I think I got the gist of what you were saying when you explained that Matthew shouldn't be allowed to come off as 'the good guy'.

No you didn't get the gist of anything. I took exception to something Mr. Williams said. How you managed to stretch that into me being a "believer" is beyond me, but perhaps best left alone since I've no intention of arguing with someone who is clearly incapable of discussing the issue in a rational manner.