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March 4, 2012 — Bryce Zabel, Peter Robbins, and Jennifer Stein

Discussion in 'Talk About the Show' started by wwkirk, Mar 6, 2012.



  1. wwkirk

    wwkirk Paranormal Adept

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    I'm an X-Files fan who never watched Dark Skies. Maybe I'll give the DVD a look. I found Peter's comments on the problems inherent with disclosure to be insightful. Yeah, what would the government say concerning abductions? Maybe they would be open to lawsuits.

    But I just can't decide whether the government really knows that much in the first place.
     

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  3. Goggs Mackay

    Goggs Mackay Administrator Staff Member

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    I can say this - I really liked Dark Skies and it was when it was on in '97 that I was first exposed to ideas such as MJ12, abductions and cover-ups. There is an interesting relationship between 2 characters, namely, the Navy Captain running the MJ12 programme, and John Loengard, a one-time MJ12 operative who now operates alone to get the truth of the ET presence to the public. Despite being a thorn in the side of the MJ12 organisation, the Captain allows him to roam free to a degree because he recognises Loengard has a nose for this business and sometimes it is worthwhile keeping tabs on him to lead you to something else worthwhile!

    Not yet listened to the new show with Bryce but am looking forward to it in part because of my love of 'Dark Skies'.
     
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  4. pong

    pong Groupthink Must Die

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    The question came up about Congressman Steven Schiff of New Mexico and his untimely death from cancer. Yes, I think the people who kill heads of state and blow up large buildings can also give you cancer. I'm guessing President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela is a recent recipient.

    Other UFO-related cancer victims:

    Karla Turner
    J. Allen Hynek
    Wilbert Smith
    Olavo Fontes
    Jim and Coral Lorenzen
    Ivan Sanderson
    Mae Brussell
    Carl Sagan - He knew too much about ET and was getting ready to talk?

    If you're a nuisance they give you cancer. If you're an imminent threat they Breitbart you. Breitbarting is carefully crafted and has the outward appearance of a heart attack, stroke, drowning, suicide, sudden illness, drug overdose, felonious assault or auto accident. The list of prominent Americans "removed" is long. Very long. Was broadcaster Frank Edwards removed? He was only 59.
     
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  5. trainedobserver

    trainedobserver Paranormally Disenchanted

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    Didn't Jack Ruby say he had been given an injection while in jail? Or was that urban legend? He died of lung cancer

    Aaron Russo didn't have anything to do with UFOs but he might have been considered a nuisance and died of cancer.
     
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  6. red_pill_junkie

    red_pill_junkie Paranormal Adept

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    Well, he said that they had given cancer not only to him, but to other Latin American leaders like Argentinian president Christina Fernández de Kirchner and Ernesto Lula da Silva, which sounds a bit more conspiranoid IMO.

    However, re. ways to induce cancer to potential enemies, one of the dirtiest ways that has been proven to have been used --although not by any American agency-- is feeding them a soup laced with Polonium, like former spy Alexander Litvinenko.

    [​IMG]

    But if that's the case, then somebody should start collecting the blood of Fidel Castro --the fact that after so many years he's still around might be suggestive that with his DNA lies the secret of immortality! ;)

    Speculations aside, I'd love to have the chance to watch the Majic Men movie, even if they don't have the chance to secure such heavyweights as Josh Brolin or Phillip Seymour Hoffman.

    PS: Ok, so where do I download my Bryce Zavel ringtone? :p
     
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  7. trainedobserver

    trainedobserver Paranormally Disenchanted

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    What aspect of what she was saying do you think would have gotten her killed and by whom? I have listened to all of her lectures that are available on youTube and the like but I admit having read only a few pages of one of her books. I have my ideas on this but I would like to hear what yours are about the thrust of what Karla Turner was saying and what part of that you think might have gotten her killed and by whom. Essentially, what is the truth that cannot be told?
     
  8. Sentry

    Sentry Paranormal Adept

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    I really enjoy special episodes like this one with multiple guests. Having them all in one location together with the co-hosts is a nice bonus. Each of the guests seemed sincere and had some interesting things to say, and it did make me curious to check out their projects.
     
  9. pong

    pong Groupthink Must Die

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    Trained Observer, you have some excellent questions as usual. They're the same questions that pop into my small brain. Yes, Jack Ruby suddenly got cancer when he became a serious liability to the conspirators. Dorothy Kilgallen, amazingly, got access to Ruby (see The Death of Dorothy Kilgallen) and received a certain amount of information from him. She later told friends that Ruby's story would blow the lid off a cover-up of the assassination. This kind of talk, we now know, will get you killed and on Nov. 8, 1965, she was found dead in her apartment. Very sad and very predictable.

    The whole history of Ruby, Oswald, Judyth Vary Baker, David Ferrie, Guy Banister, Carlos Marcello, Dr. Mary Sherman (well shucks, Mary Sherman was working for people researching a cancer virus), and other shadowy figures in New Orleans (including CIA operatives) is a history that's been covered in numerous books. Bottom line: Ruby may have been one of the very first targets who was assassinated by weaponized cancer. Red Pill Junkie is right, too: polonium and other radioactive particles will kill you but aren't nearly as stealthy as a cancer virus. Yeah, it's a miracle that Castro is alive after repeated CIA kill attempts. He lived a careful life after the first attempt.

    Now back to Karla Turner and other UFO researchers. Were they really murdered by deliberate infection with cancer? I don't know. I highly suspect, though, that it can be done. The words of Dr. Hynek should be remembered. Years after he left Project Blue Book he talked about the mission of Blue Book, the private internal mission. He said their mandate was to insure that the American public not become excited about the UFO subject; that sightings which could be easily explained, were . . . and events that could not be explained were classified and hidden from the public. Conversely, any persons who did release sensational information about UFOs and did excite the public (Frank Edwards) may have become targets.

    By my estimate, it's very likely that Hynek and Schiff were assassinated, especially Schiff. He was becoming a royal pain to the "silence group," whoever they are. Was there a motive to also eliminate Karla Turner? That's very hard to say. Some people speculate the CIA is delighted when "Grays and abductions" are the focus of attention and the UFO issue is publicly perceived as a silly fantasy. Researcher Joseph Farrell has a few things to say about all this in his new book, Saucers, Swastikas and Psyops. On the other hand, through her persistence, Turner violated Rule No. 1: Do not excite the public about UFOs.

    Another general observation: As some researchers--or government whistleblowers--get close to the truth, too close for comfort, they receive a warning. The warning can come by different means but it is an unmistakable warning. Those who heed the warning and back off can lead a normal life. Those who ignore the warning . . . will always be looking over their shoulder. Some will die prematurely in an unexpected way.

    "What is the truth that cannot be told?" From the viewpoint of the silence group, it may be a little simpler than that. I think their mantra is, "Scientists, educators and other professionals: do not research the UFO subject. It will damage your career." As we've seen in the past, it may also end your life.

    Have things changed in the last decade? Is instant Internet access to information and video frustrating the silence group? Is disclosure "happening every day," as Edgar Mitchell would say? I think so. Now, finally, there are too many voices to silence. Even the former Governor of Arizona says he witnessed the giant boomerang that flew over Phoenix in 1997. With a DSL wire attached to the back of our PC, we have the power to change minds around the world in real time. Viva la Paracast.
     
  10. trainedobserver

    trainedobserver Paranormally Disenchanted

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    The things that Karla Turner was talking about took her so far out of the mainstream that the impact that she was making in broadening the interest in UFOs seems minimal. It would seem to be a drastic call to eliminate her when her audience was so small.

    From what I can gather, she saw the UFO and abduction phenomena to be a combination of other worldly beings who can appear as aliens, your aunt Myrtle, or a religious figure, and human elements studying both the real phenomena and the people experiencing it. I think religious beliefs may have colored her thinking and language she used to describe what she was investigating. She seems to be saying the ancient concepts about evil beings from another reality (the spirit world, the underworld, etc.) are actually talking about whatever is behind the UFO/abduction business. She seems to lean toward a "spiritual" kind of interpretation akin to Nick Redfern's Collins Elite. Is that what you get from her?
     
  11. pong

    pong Groupthink Must Die

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    Trained O, I tend to agree with you. If Karla Turner's death was not natural and she died because someone caused her illness, the reason behind it may be much more complicated than simply because she was an activist who ignored a warning. You're right to suspect, at least, that she was targeted specifically because of her line of research, an investigation that delved into the almost undeniable occult underpinnings of some UFO/abduction events. The work of Tom Horn also comes to mind (RaidersNewsNetwork.com I Breaking news, US, World, Science, Discovery,Mystery, Prophetic ). Joe Farrell, Whitley Strieber and Peter Levenda have also waded into this murky pool to investigate why the close encounter/abductee phenomenon sometimes has a very dark intersection with Nazis, mind control, pedophilia, genetic experimentation, human sacrifice, military psyops and even otherworldly "Archons." (John Lash's department)

    Peter Levenda has always reminded us that many hundreds of people go missing each year, many of them children. Where do they go? Are secret societies and intelligence agencies involved with the wholesale abduction of people, especially children? Are the "missing" sexually abused and worse? Nazi activities and occult "projects" did not end in the summer of 1945, Joe Farrell reminds us. They are still with us today, in the shadows. As you step into the shadows with a flashlight, as Karla Turner did, you may trigger a response.

    The Collins Elite? Interestingly, I think Redfern has again picked up on an important undercurrent that may have a basis in fact. About seven years ago, for example, the Air Force Academy surfaced in the news because some ranking officers at the Academy were attempting to push their fundamentalist Christian beliefs onto new officers in various ways. See: Christian fundamentalist bigotry reigns at US Air Force Academy

    I'm just beginning my research into Karla Turner. Maybe I'll have more to say when I'm better informed. A quick search of the Paracast Forums reveals plenty of past talk on Turner. Blowfish started a Turner thread in 2010. Some of the Turner experts should stop by now and give us their opinions. Or maybe we should tack some new lumber on the existing Turner thread.
     
  12. Decker

    Decker Administrator Staff Member

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  13. Ofaebtas

    Ofaebtas Skilled Investigator

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    Gene - Farscape

    ;)
     
  14. Sentry

    Sentry Paranormal Adept

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    All this talk of conspiracies and mysterious deaths!
    Gray Barker really cast a long shadow with They Knew Too Much About Flying Saucers!
     
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  15. pong

    pong Groupthink Must Die

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    Thanks, Don. That's awesome!
     
  16. mike

    mike Paranormal Adept

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    Its scary stuff imo, The collins elite is a classic example of how local superstitions can become perception filters for the ET question.

    We ourselves are getting closer and closer to being able to upload conciousness from the biological platform that traditionally supports it, Such technology is imo no more unnatural than heart and other organ transplant technology.
    Sadly the superstitious will see it as "soul stealing".

    Here is a classic example

     
  17. Goggs Mackay

    Goggs Mackay Administrator Staff Member

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    I get pretty mad just thinking about Jack Ruby. 'Friend' of local police dept or not (and you can read 'snitch' in that sentence too, police don't have 'friends', well certainly not in the criminal fraternity) - you have to wonder how on earth anyone, even the media, were allowed anywhere near Oswald when he was in custody. We are talking about the investigation into the assassination of a very popular president! It is almost inconceivable that a 'friend' of the police could get close enough to the prime suspect in a president's murder! I seriously cannot think of this happening in other countries. But this slip, rather than being an indication of sloppy police work is more indicitive of their having actually been a conspiracy.

    Heaven forbid another American President being killed in such a way but if it were to happen again I cannot imagine that the prime suspect would be allowed to be killed by a nobody who happens to have some dodgy ties to the police dept dealing with the investigation?
     
  18. boomerang

    boomerang Paranormal Adept

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    Those are great interviews, and Schiff is a sort of personal hero of mine. He laid it all on the line in an effort to inform his constituents and got the usual high strangeness run around.

    Do I think the "dirty" workers out there know how to induce cancers? Probably. The list of well known carcinogens is quite long, not counting what may be under wraps. The real question is whether this is actually done. Don't expect a full disclosure on this one anytime soon.
     
  19. trainedobserver

    trainedobserver Paranormally Disenchanted

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    I am fascinated by your thoughts on this subject and don't understand why you think the way you do about it.

    Your use of the term upload creates a false impression that something would actually be transferred in some one to one fashion. However they propose to do such a thing, it cannot be equated with taking a physical organ and placing it in another body. Whatever this technology would be, it would be recreating or mimicking the mind it was based on, it would not be moving that original mind to another location. At best you might be able to consider it an attempt to copy the behavior of the system creating the original consciousness itself.

    The physical configuration of the central nervous system and indeed the entire human body itself creates the human consciousness. Any attempt to transfer a property or characteristic that emerges from a system must either recreate the system itself or the function of the system through other means, essentially simulating the desired characteristic or property. In other words an emergent quality cannot simply be picked up and placed somewhere else.

    Mike, it seems to me that were this technology existing today you could theoretically have a copy of something that replicates the behavior of your consciousness loaded into some device but it would not be your mind that is or was being created and sustained by the activity of your body. It wouldn't be you and it wouldn't be a human being or a human consciousness in a non-human container. It would be a thing mimicking a human being rather than the person.

    We may indeed one day be able to create artificial bodies and create almost exact duplicates of brain/mind systems that exist in a specific real human being thereby essentially creating an artificial version of someone. However, I contend that it would not be that person, it would not be human in any sense, and it would not be an extension or evolution of the human species. It would be something else entirely. By creating such things and thinking about them as the people they imitate we would be manufacturing an artificial machine race of simulacra that would be an abomination from a purely humanistic point of view, no religious or superstitious notions required.
     
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  20. Goggs Mackay

    Goggs Mackay Administrator Staff Member

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    T.O I think what you are getting at that Mike might be missing is simply a perfect clone would be needed for starters, almost a star trek transporter accident type of clone if you understand me. Otherwise I don't see how every single neuron etc could hold the exact electrical potential it should and the exact amount of neurotransmitters to be where they need to be in the exact amounts.
    I think until such one for one copying could be invented, a close facsimile is all that is possible for a very long time. Of course, these things have a habit of jumping way ahead when you don't expect them too! Part of what makes science so exciting!
     
  21. Goggs Mackay

    Goggs Mackay Administrator Staff Member

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    Look at monozygotic twins (identical). Exact DNA match, very different humans.
     

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