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January 17, 2016 — T. Allen Greenfield

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
As most of you know, I've known T. Allen Greenfield since we were both teenagers trying our hands at becoming flying saucer researchers.

Allen is also one of the most fascinating people engaged in paranormal research, and we always enjoy having him on The Paracast. This week's discussion revisits our original brainstorming session, in the 1960s, where we were working on alternative theories for UFOs. It also starts there, and expands into loads of fascinating possibilities.
 
I really enjoyed this episode, I could listen to Allen ramble on all day, and the links between occultism and UFOs seems to be an area that could do with a lot more examination.

And Gene used to be a bodybuilder, who knew?
 
This discrepancy was mentioned elsewhere which i attributed to the Mandela Effect when it seemed it was a matter of not following up on rumors or something.

I guess it also comes down to the powers of self persuasion as one fan seemed to think she was killed in her mouseketeer days and maintained all his life he heard it on the tv.

From Comments 3 | The Mandela Effect

Arlan Andrews, Sr.13 May 14

"The first time I noticed this Effect was back in the 1950s, when my best friend came to high school and told us that it was announced on TV that the then-famous Mousketeer, Annette Funicello, had been killed in an accident. We were all shocked, but there was no follow-up news. He maintained all his life that he had seen that report on TV."
 
If the UFO winks on and off and if the strange monsters wink in and out of reality are these things about a concrete external event seen by all who might be there to witness or are these things like trees that fall in forests without witnesses? With the tree we are certain of the sound because that's what trees do. But because we don't know anything for certain about UFO's or monsters we just end up imagining what they might be like. This sounds to me like more of an internal experience than a concrete external event.

In the short novel Mad Shadows a commentary at the back of it identifies the characters' experience of reality to be one wherein the soul winks on and the souls winks off. In that book the critic was referring to issues of consciousness and the ability to participate in a moral universe only momentarily at random intervals. UFO's and monsters are also random & momentary, and seem to also be very much concerned with our consciousness as opposed to any verifiable concrete reality. This makes discussions about portals and parallel worlds to be also subjects of our own creation.
 
@Burnt State At the risk of taking this conversation in a different direction let me ask you this. Given the choice of a mechanism that rules and defines this world and our reality I am very much down with chaos theory and that being the case would suggest that I and the others I share this realm with are at the mercy of actions of people I never met, will never meet, on the other side of the world and that died before I was born and possibly depending on how much long I live I am at the mercy of the actions of people yet to be born.

So given that,if I accept chaos theory as a viable premise would this not conflict with the concept of us making our reality because then you'd have to accept that I am responsible for the creation of a person that I never met that will set or have set in forth a chain of events that will eventually impact me?

Do you exist because I will it and any conversation we have is because I created it or willed it?

Is Gene an aspect of my will and I am sending my $5/a month to a creation of my own doing?

If i ask you Robert if you accept the concept of chaos theory your answer is what I want it to be?

Is chaos theory my own concept because I heard of it and I create my own reality?

are we not all soverign beings with our own will and your morals are what I want them to be because all of you guys are part of my creation or will?

Do I missunderstand something or maybe I'm taking the concept of making our own reality too literal?
 
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@Wade i would say you might be stretching this idea to be all encompassing and too literal. I offered up those examples because we know what trees with a weight will do when they fall which is to break a heck of a lot molecular bonds and that energy gets released in sound, so we know it will make a sound. But UFO's and monsters are things that appear to occupy parts of our consciousness that we have no real definition for, nor can we make any confident statements of certainty about them. We just don't have any real defining, consistent facts that we can use to measure or predict anything about them.

I suppose that in the paradigm you are painting I would say that monsters and UFO's may be much more products of our making, or at least if I was a betting man I would say that they are much more likely to be objects of our own creation, as we currently 'know' them. I would not want to exclude them from being an independent object as there appears to be some specific cases that suggest something did exist in external reality, some unknown stimulus that we processed through our sensory system. How much is the UFO and monster something of our own making vs. how many cases are entirely in our heads is debatable.

I would never want to smash all of consensus reality as that's what allows us all to function and talk with each other. We do exist in a consensus reality but how much of a slave we are to the will of others is also about a state of mind. In the nazi concentration camp you can still exist in a reality inside your head if you want, find inner peace and even compassion for your torturer. At lest that's what reading Man's Search for Meaning taught me.

But the UFO and monster are not really part of consensus reality at all. And I don't think @Gene Steinberg we are making it all up in our heads. But like the astral experience Greenfield created for his lodge members, I would say that UFO's and monsters do in some portion emanate from us. Given how ephemeral they often are we must recognize that in a large part we are co-creators of a phenomenon. Like believing in leprechauns and faeries, they are an enormous part of human history; they reside in that same part of our brain that manufactures gods - and look how much of reality those unproven, supernatural beings have claimed over generations. They now have their own mythology - dangerous anti-science stuff IMHO.

But, like anything that appears for a brief moment, that flashes out of the corner of your eye, like the stories we like to tell, these things are tied to our consciousness way more than they are tied to the ETH as Greenfied very eloquently explained.

I see no mechanism in control of anything. Chaos theory is a very interesting way of finding meaningful coincidences and trajectories and anti-patterns. When I think about that, Wade, I think the UFO is trying to teach us that patterns are fleeting and that we need to work on using our imagination in ways that do not enslave us nor bind us. UFO's = Chaos, hence the High Stange. But that's another conversation altogether.

I don't even think I answered many of your questions. Apologies, but I still think these supposed portals, like the shtuff a lot of crappy Ufoology tries to peddle is in fact illusory and a human creation. I would separate those crappy crop circles from actual evidence. I also disagree with Greenfield's 50/50 estimation. The good evidence of an external mystery, as Micah Hanks recently stated in not so many words, is pretty damn hard to find. But it's there.
 
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Crap, look at how much drivel I spewed out there, Wade. I hope I came close to moving in the direction you were traveling. Didn't see the new year's walk photos this year from you - did I miss it? I was hoping to share with you the story of creating a Tulpa on my new year's walk that I still can't get out of my head. Damn conjurings.
 
I did take the beach walk but split it up into 2 12 mile sections over two days instead of one 24 mile walk on one day but didn't post pictures. But seeing how you asked so nicely I'll see if I can dredge up that thread I created and post some pictures (They weren't especially spectacular this year)
 
I'd like to know more about Allen Greenfield's ability to send people to other realities. I certainly volunteer for that experience, and I only live 60 miles or so away from him.
 
Interesting episode, interesting guy. I didn't hear the usual probing questioning for this guest that has become a hallmark of The Paracast. I can excuse that, I guess, given the relationship there.

Hope this doesn't touch off a firestorm, but I did think it was interesting that Gene listened to Allen talk about conjuring a spell inside a Masonic lodge and just went with it, but later in the same episode, took another opportunity to bash David Jacobs (the favorite punching bag of The Paracast) as if Jacob's ideas are somehow more out there than Allen's. :)
 
I got a kick out of this guy, though the fact that he said doesn't like superhero movies because they are unrealistic about five minutes after he reportedly created a storm had me scratching my head.
 
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