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Destroying the 1997 Phoenix Lights UFO case


Sean Elifritz

Administrator
The latter half of this may have been posted here before but I don't think the first part has been.

This is 2 short clips basically glued together. The first part concerns the sightings and a videotape of the 8-8:30 triangle that many people claim could not have been jets in formation because the lights were allegedly too steady in relation to one another. But this clip shows that in fact the lights did display variations in position and therefor jets flying in a V-formation is a perfectly logical conclusion to arrive at. The second segment is an analysis done of the videos of the 10:00 sightings. The results make it glaringly obvious that the lights were merely flares passing behind mountains.


Yeah, I'm fully aware that the 10:00 PM sightings were already a dead issue for all but the lunatic fringe. But many have still been clinging to the 8-8:30 triangle as something possibly extraordinary. Heck, James Fox included it in his excellent documentary, I Know What I Saw. But then I watched this old documentary again (Hadn't seen it in years) and was pretty surprised by that segment where the man that got the only videotape of it admitted that the lights had moved independently of each other. And they also show some diagrams of exactly how they moved. Don't know how I had failed to remember that but somehow I did. Given this information it seems to me that the earlier sightings need to be dismissed as well.

Absolutely superb documentary. It's called UFOs Over Phoenix: Anatomy of a Sighting. They had this case whipped a long time ago but as happens so often when it comes to UFOs many are unaware of it or have chosen to ignore it.
 
I watched all of the Discovery Channel shows where former MUFON Director James Carrion went around ---clearly--- debunking alot of stuff, especially that silly Jaime Mausson's balloons, the shapeshifting aliens, don'tcha know.
I specifically picked this lnk because it says Haime Mausson's video with 'Ufos Over Earth' "Is no longer available." Why would that be?
http://vodpod.com/watch/1545542-videos-ufos-over-earth-with-mufons-james-carrion-discovery-channel


This woman is one of the Pheonix Lights witnesses. She seems like the typical OutWest NewAgey to me. Her hair looks like a Golden Retriever's ears!
 
1st clip: That many jets would make a hell of a noise. I can't recall witnesses saying that they heard the sound of jets or engines in that area. In fact I think that some or most of them were surprised at there being no noise at all. I maybe wrong on that though.

2nd clip: The lights still don't look like flares to me. Those who have seen the type of flares, purportedly used, say that the lights don't look like those same flares.
The lights also look like they just blink out. Now whether or not that's due to them falling behind the mountain range or not is still not clearly defined. One of the lights seems as if it is still hovering in place whilst the others have disappeared.
 
1st clip: That many jets would make a hell of a noise. I can't recall witnesses saying that they heard the sound of jets or engines in that area. In fact I think that some or most of them were surprised at there being no noise at all. I maybe wrong on that though.

2nd clip: The lights still don't look like flares to me. Those who have seen the type of flares, purportedly used, say that the lights don't look like those same flares.
The lights also look like they just blink out. Now whether or not that's due to them falling behind the mountain range or not is still not clearly defined. One of the lights seems as if it is still hovering in place whilst the others have disappeared.

Yeah, at some point the guy even says there was no sound (Not in the clip, was afterward) but so what? If they were really high and weren't kicking in their afterburners (And why would they when flying in formation?) there wouldn't be any noise anyway. Planes fly over my place all the time and 99% of the time I hear nothing.
 
I live near an airforce base and believe me that many jets together would make a great deal of sound sans afterburner or not. Was there any analysis as to how high the lights were? I didn't hear that commented on in the short clips. Also the jets i have seen flying at night have more than one light on them including , as i recall, at least one red light. It's hard to make any definitive conclusion based on that on extremely grainy video tap.
 
I live near an airforce base and believe me that many jets together would make a great deal of sound sans afterburner or not. Was there any analysis as to how high the lights were? I didn't hear that commented on in the short clips. Also the jets i have seen flying at night have more than one light on them including , as i recall, at least one red light. It's hard to make any definitive conclusion based on that on extremely grainy video tap.

Look, I don't know. But the fact that the lights within that triangle were moving independently, were breaking formation slightly, tells me it was jets flying in formation. For me to conclude anything else would be stretching things to say the least.
 
Look, I don't know. But the fact that the lights within that triangle were moving independently, were breaking formation slightly, tells me it was jets flying in formation. For me to conclude anything else would be stretching things to say the least.

Some of residents of the areas where the lights were seen, reported seeing the lights flying through the mountain ranges at the height and level of that range, some saying that they were even lower. The lack of any noise was also a commonly reported fact. Also that some of the people who reported claimed to have seen the shape and detail of a craft due to the low altitude. Personally I think to make any conclusions at all as to what the lights were whether it be jets, flares or unidentified craft of any origin is far too difficult to make.
It does remain, however, a very intriguing case.:)
 
I live near an AF base also, and I have seen jet fighters at night with only a single light.

"Her hair looks like a Golden Retriever's ears!"

Irrespective of the truth about the Phoenix Lights, that'll be my quote of the week.
 
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I live near an AF base also, and I have seen jet fighters at night with only a single light

Do they make any noise?

---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------

In this video the lights seem to increase in number at points in the viewing from 4 to 7 (1:17 mins). If they were disappearing behind the mountain range why would the number increase? Surely as pointed out shouldn't they be decreasing in number as they went behind the range? The lights seemed to be in the same position for between 3-4 minutes without any noticeable positional movement.

UFO - Phoenix Lights - Full Version 1997
 
Some of residents of the areas where the lights were seen, reported seeing the lights flying through the mountain ranges at the height and level of that range, some saying that they were even lower. The lack of any noise was also a commonly reported fact. Also that some of the people who reported claimed to have seen the shape and detail of a craft due to the low altitude. Personally I think to make any conclusions at all as to what the lights were whether it be jets, flares or unidentified craft of any origin is far too difficult to make.
It does remain, however, a very intriguing case.:)

Yeah, I'm aware of all of that. I also know that when this video was televised...:


...in an attempt to draw out witnesses some actually emerged. And it's such a ridiculous fake that if ya' watch a somewhat decent copy of it you can actually see a ghost-image of the craft passing through the building.

People like believing and being a part of things and what I've learned from nearly 20 years of interest in this subject is that they hate to have their good yarns snatched away from them. For a lot of people when they see something they jump to the most extreme conclusion, not because they're dumb, but because it's fun to do that. Then they relish in telling their tale to friends and family throughout the following years. For a lot of them the last thing they want is some know-it-all showing up to spoil their fun by telling them all they saw was Venus or a flock of birds. There was a couple spots in this very documentary where I heard a few of the witnesses saying things like, "I just wish someone would tell me what it was." That made me smirk because I knew it's the last thing they want! People were trying to tell them it was flares, which the 10 PM sightings clearly were, and all those same people wanted to do was get pissed off. As far as the 8:30 sighting goes a kid with a pony-tail showed up at a town meeting and explained that he looked at the formation through a telescope and he clearly saw jets and everyone there pretty much blew their tops, lol. And shit, I'm not saying any of this to be some kind of elitist. The only thing that keeps me from behaving the same way is nearly 20 years of fairly intense study of the subject. None of this is to say that I buy every debunker argument that comes my way. God knows some of them are nonsensical in the extreme. But given what I saw in this documentary the answers for this particular case are pretty easy.
 
Re noise from jet fighters; yes, they make noise, but of course it fades out as they move away. Depending on the weather the lights may still be visible after the noise fades out. One thing though is that usually it's a fairly dim red light; the lights on the Phoenix UFO look brighter than most of the fighter plane lights I've seen.
 
I have no idea what the Phoenix lights are but to me the Jets and flares explanations described in your original post are a good attempt but don't convince me. Thanks for posting it though. At least thought provoking.
I'm not swayed into the jet theory just because one kid with or without a pony tail says he saw jets. Just as I am not swayed into the Aliens from Uranus or wherever theory just because some saw what they say was a 1/3 mile to 1 mile long structured craft. All you are left with are arguments for this and counter arguments for that.
The Mexico City video was called as a fake years ago and rightly so. On the other hand I don't think that the Phoenix one has been definitively debunked.
In the end people will believe what they want.

---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 PM ----------

Re noise from jet fighters; yes, they make noise, but of course it fades out as they move away. Depending on the weather the lights may still be visible after the noise fades out. One thing though is that usually it's a fairly dim red light; the lights on the Phoenix UFO look brighter than most of the fighter plane lights I've seen.

I'm sure that if you had 6-8 jets in formation flying past, you would definately hear it for a while longer. I remember at the Adelaide Grand Prix several years ago seeing 4 FA/18's performing overhead. The track announcer had introduced their arrival when they were still several miles from the track and you could hear their rumble as they approached over the din of racing cars and crowds. You could also still hear them slightly as they left into the distance.
 
Hmm, looks like some of ya' don't want to let this one go. I know how that goes. When the David Jacobs thing emerged I was in denial for a little bit. But eventually I came to my senses and faced facts. I trust that the majority of you will do the same thing in relation to this case eventually.
 
AERIAL FLARES, and A 10's in formation, throttled back for landing....sorry true believers, but parsimony rules out gigantic alien craft in this case....

I have dropped these flares and I do know how they are set, and the video that was identified as flares is correct, they are dropped, light according to the setting, and then burn out. No mystery....

Dale
 
Re fighters and air shows, I actually had the opposite experience where a plane was suddenly over the crowd and we all jumped because none of us had heard it coming. It made me realize how vulnerable people on the ground are to air attack. All the military history stuff about needing control of the air suddenly became crystal clear.

As far as the Phoenix Lights, I actually lean toward the formation of planes + flares theory myself. I've never seen an A10 except on TV so I wouldn't know what a formation of them at night would look like. I merely noted that the lights in the video looked (and were described as being) different from the fighter plane lights I've seen.
 
Hmm, looks like some of ya' don't want to let this one go. I know how that goes. When the David Jacobs thing emerged I was in denial for a little bit. But eventually I came to my senses and faced facts. I trust that the majority of you will do the same thing in relation to this case eventually.

Nah, I've already let it go. The case still remains in my gray basket. The presentation you provided does nothing to change my mind either way.

I have dropped these flares and I do know how they are set, and the video that was identified as flares is correct, they are dropped, light according to the setting, and then burn out. No mystery....

Funny how they don't seem to be moving. And how do you explain the ones in the full version that appear and then disappear going from 4 to 7 then eventually gone. Do flares ignite, burn out and then reignite whilst in the air?

---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 PM ----------

Re fighters and air shows, I actually had the opposite experience where a plane was suddenly over the crowd and we all jumped because none of us had heard it coming. It made me realize how vulnerable people on the ground are to air attack. All the military history stuff about needing control of the air suddenly became crystal clear.

As far as the Phoenix Lights, I actually lean toward the formation of planes + flares theory myself. I've never seen an A10 except on TV so I wouldn't know what a formation of them at night would look like. I merely noted that the lights in the video looked (and were described as being) different from the fighter plane lights I've seen.

There didn't seem to be any aircraft noise associated with the reports of the lights. I think there were reports of jet noise heard after the lights had gone.
 
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