August 14, 2016 — Walter Bosley with Alejandro Rojas

[Gene Steinberg]

This is an episode that took a surprising turn. It started with Walter Bosley and his unique brand of fascinating discussion, and it became more intense when OpenMinds' Alejandro Rojas showed up and soon debated the issues around breakaway civilizations.

Walter also joined us — with special guest Greg Bishop — on After The Paracast, an exclusive feature of The Paracast+. You can find out how to subscribe to our premium subscription service at:

Introducing The Paracast+ | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio

 

[Walter Bosley]

I would like to say that Gene and Chris, you were both sublime as usual.
Alejandro's entrance into the discussion was outstanding though!
Walter was left scrambling and speechless by Rojas' simple question, 'What is the evidence for a breakaway society?', it was quite the smackdown I must say, my goodness...haha!
I would like to see Alejandro return this year for a roundtable with some others if possible.

You are so right. I am completely flummoxed and am considering leaving the public stage for good. ET must be the answer to it all.

Mine AND Chris' reaction (if you were listening, it was both of us) was to Alejandro saying there wasn't a scintilla of evidence. He walked that back.

Sometimes I forget the undercurrent of hostility in the Paracast milieu to what I and some others do. However, as pointed out, there is the work of Richard Dolan, Catherine Austin Fitts, Joseph Farrell, and my own that includes documented facts. But 'Mea Culpa'.

 

[withoutlimits09]

I finally got to the Alejandro part. Wow, that seemed like a total ambush, did they warn you he was going to come on? It is very unprofessional to have a critical guest, come on in the final part of the show, challenge your point of view, without the necessary time to flesh things out. It is now clear to me the Paracast is motivated to take on and dismiss the more far reaching thinkers in this field. I think in their mind, they are a more "legitimate" outfit if they scoff at the more "out there" theories. Sadly, as they try to shun the more interesting in favor of the more conventional and "accepted," their show really suffers. This is why I like Greg Bishop, he will talk to anyone and keep an open mind. I remember one time he was on the Paracast, and both Gene and Chris were going on and on about how horrible Phil Imbrogno was, and how big of a liar he was, and how he should be shunned from this field, and Bishop spoke up and said (to the effect), "I would actually love to interview him, I don't care about his background information, I bet it would be an interesting conversation."

I come to this, largely, to hear interesting and fascinating conversations. To listen to the possibilities and think about them.. That, to me, is the fun in all of this. To try and limit everything and categorize it into a small box, really becomes mundane. I am sure in Gene and Chris's mind, they are a step closer to becoming a legitimate outfit, up there with Neil Degrass Tyson*...(See we take on those crazy people too!!!). Sadly, as this transition happens, listenership starts to wean and everything becomes stale.

Nice job staying professional, Walter, I would have been pissed.

*sarcasm

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Actually we did plan on having Alejandro on, but it wasn't clear what direction it would take.

As to Imbrogno, I wouldn't object to having him on — for a truth-telling session. Why'd he do it? Will he own up to his falsehoods?

 

[withoutlimits09]

Actually we did plan on having Alejandro on, but it wasn't clear what direction it would take.

As to Imbrogno, I wouldn't object to having him on — for a truth-telling session. Why'd he do it? Will he own up to his falsehoods?

I have no doubt that YOU planned on having Alejandro on, I am simply wondering if your guest knew he would be on too? It really seemed to be an ambush, which I found really unfair to Walter, who tries hard to present his material and write decent books. I think it is wrong to have a "surprise" caller come on and attack the guest at the very end of a show, without enough time dedicated to settle anything.

It seems irresponsible to not inform guests beforehand, or vet any callers as to their intentions. Any time you call into a radio show, the screener will say, "What do you want to talk about." This is all very basic stuff, it is done precisely so you WILL know the direction a conversation will take.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I don't think you get it. We didn't know, in advance, that Alejandro would take or express that approach, and I do think Walter realized we didn't intend to ambush anyone. Having Alejandro on didn't mean we had an agenda for him. It was an open discussion, where anything might happen. I also think Alejandro realized he might have come on too strong, but that's what a spontaneous session can sometimes bring.

 

[Walter Bosley]

Alejandro did express as much to me afterward. Yes, being a little better prepared is on me. It should also be noted that any sarcasm you see in my comments above is directed at forum commentary like 'smack down' etc etc. I think Alejandro's comment about 'no evidence' was something he probably won't mean once he looks closer at the issue though yes I admit that the breakaway theory is a theory, an opinion based on particular analyses of the individuals who propose it. I'm confident that it's every bit as solid as any theory of ET explaining the UFOs. And the hostility I mentioned is that which exists in elements of the listenership not the hosts. Thanks for the support, Withoutlimits09!!

 

[wwkirk]

On balance, I preferred Alejandro's take on the matter to Walter's. The same goes for Dolan. I think the breakaway civilization theory to be a bit far fetched.

 

[jamestyle]

Fun show, I really enjoyed listening to both Alejandro and Walter.

Seemed like a nice demonstration of people disagreeing while still being respectful to each other. Nice job gentlemen.

 

[Wade]

I very much enjoyed this show, certainly one of the more "sociological" episodes of the paracast. It is this aspect of the paranormal that I find the most interesting.

I have yet to hear Walter say anything remotely close to having the answer and is constantly throwing in caveats and "in my opinions". While I can appreciate the skepticism I can't understand the hostility or neccesity to take glee in have been given a "smackdown" (which just shows how dense I am I suppose as I certainly didn't hear any evidence of a smackdown)

What I did hear was an all encompassing discussion on contemporary society and culture with a foray into the paranormal later on...and that isn't a bad thing.

 

[Walter Bosley]

I have yet to hear Walter say anything remotely close to having the answer and is constantly throwing in caveats and "in my opinions".

Thanks for the positive feedback. Just one thing I'd like to point out: When people claim to 'have the answer' everyone complains that they should say 'in my opinion' and provide a disclaimer or a caveat. Then when you do add those, someone asks why you don't 'have the answer'. For future reference, which is it around here?

 

[withoutlimits09]

Actually we did plan on having Alejandro on, but it wasn't clear what direction it would take.

As to Imbrogno, I wouldn't object to having him on — for a truth-telling session. Why'd he do it? Will he own up to his falsehoods?

Of course you would like to have Imbrogno on, and ONLY ask him, "gotcha" questions, in hopes of getting some sort of confession on his part. This is my problem with the Paracast, they are too interested in ambushing guests, and playing the devil's advocate...to a determent to the show. This is why their guests have been so repetitive! People don't want to come on this show, because it is too negative, and too political.

Just get some interesting guests, have a good conversation, and let the audience decide. Stop trying to be judge, jury, and executioner! Sadly, you tried that with Walter, to which he more than held his own and maintained his professionalism. However, it was obvious what the intention was.

 

[Randall]

I thought it was interesting how on one hand Chris thinks psychedelics provide ground-breaking knowledge about UFOs, and on the other Bosley suggests that alien abductions are drug induced so that experiencers come away with fantasies and hallucinations to cover the abductee's real motivations. The only difference between which story you believe is true is who is doing the drug inducing. I guess the hallucinations are only fantasies if the drugs are administered by the guys behind the great conspiracy, whereas if it's a native shaman who's feeding them to you, the hallucinations aren't fantasies, but all part of some greater reality?

In contrast we hear Rojas talking about radar contacts of unknown craft at some extended distance from a Navy ship by a radar tech named Carter. I'm not a radar expert, but it's not my understanding that hallucinations can be tracked on radar, and because there have been more than one radar-visual UFO incident, were they all hallucinations too? I've never heard "Mass Hallucination" cited as the cause for the 1952, Washington DC flap. But maybe if we all just dropped a tab or two we could finally get the answer to that question?

Please forgive my skepticism, but if we're to take hallucinations seriously as evidence of alien visitation, as Chris seems to believe we should, then a reasonable investigation into the validity of that claim should include less hand waving and complaining ( especially on-air ) and more thoughtful engagement of the issues. It's simply irresponsible to handle that issue any other way. The alternative during these discussions is for me to blindly endorse drug use in UFO investigations based purely on Chris' pro-psychedelic position, or just say nothing. Neither of those options seems fair.

Oviously ( or at least it should be obvious ), that if we want young people to become involved in ufology and take it seriously, they should be engaging the subject with clear, unimpaired, educated, and open minds, not drugs of any kind, be they psychedelics, cannabis, alcohol or whatever the case may be. The only exception for seriously exploring alien visitation through the lens of psychedelics is for experts in scientific and accredited educational settings where subjective and objective reality can be independently verified by qualified researchers - period.

VIDEO: Franklin Carter - RADAR Tech: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaFSmp9hK_k

 

[Walter Bosley]

and on the other Bosley suggests that alien abductions are drug induced so that experiencers come away with fantasies and hallucinations to cover the abductee's real motivations.

I get the feeling you're taking something I said in a context you prefer. Since you brought it up, how about you quoting exactly what I said and where it is in the interview? I'm not recalling it exactly the way you state it.

 

[Randall]

I get the feeling you're taking something I said in a context you prefer. Since you brought it up, how about you quoting exactly what I said and where it is in the interview? I'm not recalling it exactly the way you state it.

On the Para+ version starting around 01:11:05 you say with respect to alien abductions - " ... hallucinations that are drug induced during the process so that they come away with these wild stories that it will be really hard for most people to believe and accept so that it's easier, they're hiding under the cover of the fantasy and the hallucination ..."

Regarding context: The context in my post revolves around drug induced experiences of alien visitation. Chris' comments and yours are two completely different and opposite takes on experiences stemming from the same stimulus - drug induced hallucinations. I hope that helps.

 

[Walter Bosley]

On the Para+ version starting around 01:11:05 you say with respect to alien abductions - " ... hallucinations that are drug induced during the process so that they come away with these wild stories that it will be really hard for most people to believe and accept so that it's easier, they're hiding under the cover of the fantasy and the hallucination ..."

Regarding context: The context in my post revolves around drug induced experiences of alien visitation. Chris' comments and yours are two completely different and opposite takes on experiences stemming from the same stimulus - drug induced hallucinations. I hope that helps.

Ah yes, OK. It was more like at 1:37 but yes I recall saying that within the context of deceptive abductions, i.e. abductions by a human/Earthly organization using an ET experience as a cover and that this could be accomplished through suggestion while the subject is under the influence of a substance. The suggestion could certainly even be reinforced by the perps wearing some sort of simple mask and saying certain things giving the subject an impression of an ET experience or anything to discredit the subject should they decide to go public. I also recall emphasizing that I also think ET is out there and did not dismiss or eliminate the possibility of ET abductions. I also mentioned abductions involving 'hidden others' which Chris refers to as 'other tenants'. I'm not sure any of us were encouraging the use of psychedelics, narcotics, etc relative to UFO research or anything. I know I was proposing what I think based on what we know the CIA did after WW2 with MKULTRA and the like. Maybe I misunderstood you, you might not have been suggesting we did.

Oh, and good catch. Though it was only a couple of days ago, I didn't recognize me saying the words that were written until I went back and listened. Isn't that weird!

 

[DaveM]

I seriously doubt you would ever get Philip Imbrogno on the Paracast. I did a brief search and only found two interviews he did since 2011. I would imagine he would not talk to anyone unless they guaranteed the subject of his resume will not be discussed.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Of course you would like to have Imbrogno on, and ONLY ask him, "gotcha" questions, in hopes of getting some sort of confession on his part. This is my problem with the Paracast, they are too interested in ambushing guests, and playing the devil's advocate...to a determent to the show. This is why their guests have been so repetitive! People don't want to come on this show, because it is too negative, and too political.

Just get some interesting guests, have a good conversation, and let the audience decide. Stop trying to be judge, jury, and executioner! Sadly, you tried that with Walter, to which he more than held his own and maintained his professionalism. However, it was obvious what the intention was.

Yeah, but you're still listening! As to your critique of the show, what you've stated is a total crock of shit! We want the truth, period! If we ask tough questions, good—somebody has to drill down. As for guests, you are absolutely right. There are some who wouldn't dare come on the show because we would expose their BS to our discerning audience. If you don't like what we do and how we do it, that's YOUR problem and you'll deal with it.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

The only exception for seriously exploring alien visitation through the lens of psychedelics is for experts in scientific and accredited educational settings where subjective and objective reality can be independently verified by qualified researchers - period.

Well, well, well, he finally cracked! So, you now think that this could be an investigative avenue to take. I've FINALLY broke through!

Face it Randall: The UFO investigative wheel is not only broken, it is shredded, off the vehicle, it has flown off the cliff to be mistaken as an internet hoax. I would say that after almost 70 years with very little (if any) progress that we should be getting creative in our efforts and I know that psychedelic awareness (and I agree, if properly applied) will provide investigators w/ breathtaking breakthroughs in understanding. And since you are so hung up on accreditations, diplomas, degrees and other sniffy educational validity, I have invited Rick Strassman to be a guest on the Paracast. He has all these degrees and is one of only a handful of brave scientists willing to jeopardize his career and study psychedelics. He has had to deal w/ the bullshit stigma that has been leveled at these wonderful substances (like you do) but has managed to damn the torpedoes and forge ahead to reveal what shaman have been saying for thousands of of years. But, since he has you precious establishment credentials, he has been taken seriously. You bet your ass I am going to bounce some very interesting questions off him and we'll see what Dr. expert has to say about your fears and trepidation around the subject.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

I'm not sure any of us were encouraging the use of psychedelics, narcotics, etc relative to UFO research or anything.

Wrong Walter, I DO propose the careful application of psychedelics (psilocybin and natural entheogens) as a possible investigative tool. Of course their use would be monitored by investigators not 'under the influence.' The wheel's broke dude, we need to get creative!