-
NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!
Abductees should be put through this kind of testing..
- Thread starter The Hawk
- Start date
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
So, were they given the hypnotic suggestion to remember upon awakening? Or were they showed/told the names then hypnotized to recall them? That is what needed to be done.
There is fact checking with at least some abduction researchers. Jacobs and Hopkins use decent controls. All the time? I have no way of knowing. I personally am not wild about hypnosis unless there are multiple people and some facts that can be checked, like a license plate in the Witness case by Hopkins. Even then, nothing I think should be done in preliminary stages of the investigation.
In short, hypnosis is a double edge sword. You can get very accurate details under hypnosis, but you can also get poor/inaccurate info. Tight controls are needed. I'm not quite sure what all went on with the example the article gave.
There is fact checking with at least some abduction researchers. Jacobs and Hopkins use decent controls. All the time? I have no way of knowing. I personally am not wild about hypnosis unless there are multiple people and some facts that can be checked, like a license plate in the Witness case by Hopkins. Even then, nothing I think should be done in preliminary stages of the investigation.
In short, hypnosis is a double edge sword. You can get very accurate details under hypnosis, but you can also get poor/inaccurate info. Tight controls are needed. I'm not quite sure what all went on with the example the article gave.
Apollonius
Paranormal Novice
Hypnosis, memory regression is terribly unreliable, therefore if evidence from such sources is being used in any investigation then verification from "reliable" independant sources need to be used. Otherwise belief will intervene and we all know what happens to rational analysis and discussion when that happens.cq0 said:
I know I'm pretty much alone on this but I believe regressive hypnosis is just as reliable than normal memory and sometimes more, if done by an extremely competent hypnotist. Especially when it comes to encounters because the grays just love their deceptive screen memories. It's long since been proven that people under hypnosis can remember many elaborate details such as license plates, and other very specific facts that are consciously not accessible. So people need to stop pretending it's not at least somewhat useful for gathering information. But as I've pointed out with this topic there are memory and psychological tests that are worthwhile to further the abduction research.
The Hawk said:
You may be right. For myself, however, I was sent to 10 sessions with a hypnotherapist to try and heal an injury once. Even after the 10th session I just COULD NOT "go under" as the doctor wished me to. I really tried and I really wanted to, but I couldn't. He kept telling me that I was under whether I knew it or not. He tried to test me about my 10th birthday and a few other events in my life but I couldn't recall squat, despite all of his elaborate attempts to help me. I had to just give up. Either hypnosis is not all that great for many people, or I am just one of the ones who have no luck with it.
Regressive hypnosis has long since been known to be highly suggestive and fantasy prone. The area of the brain dealt with when experiencing regression is the area that handles fantasy situations, not memory recall. There is also a serious issue of cultural contamination which plays heavily into "recalled" memories of abductions.
The person usually going for regressive therapy to recall alien interaction....well...usually already believes they've had it. Couple that with the therapist either unknowingly or purposefully leading a subject and you get the abduction explosion of the late 80's, along with hybrid breeding programs and egg/sperm harvest scenarios.
The person usually going for regressive therapy to recall alien interaction....well...usually already believes they've had it. Couple that with the therapist either unknowingly or purposefully leading a subject and you get the abduction explosion of the late 80's, along with hybrid breeding programs and egg/sperm harvest scenarios.
jritzmann said:
Or people like "Sybil." I read somewhere that a book has come out claiming that the real Sybil and her doctor were not accurate in what was touted as evidence for multiple personalities. I believe that allegations are made that her doctor either intentionally or unintentionally "lead her" to create all those personalities.
Convenient, tho, that these people speak out after Sybil and the doctor are dead and cannot defend themselves.
You sound as if you think that part of it came about in the 80s..
It's always been about the transgenic program. There's been ample anecdotal evidence of that since the start. Including those with conscious recall enough to remember being on the ships who had no damn clue what they were witnessing. There are more than 4 procedures described by abductees early on that scientists, hypnotists .. nobody knew they were reproductive, it wasn't until much later that it was discovered that they were. It would be good since I'm making a point here, if I could back it up.. but no sorry. I avoid such specific details, I don't like spreading information in public format that competent hypnotists use as test points. Damned if you do damned if you don't issue I guess..
It's always been about the transgenic program. There's been ample anecdotal evidence of that since the start. Including those with conscious recall enough to remember being on the ships who had no damn clue what they were witnessing. There are more than 4 procedures described by abductees early on that scientists, hypnotists .. nobody knew they were reproductive, it wasn't until much later that it was discovered that they were. It would be good since I'm making a point here, if I could back it up.. but no sorry. I avoid such specific details, I don't like spreading information in public format that competent hypnotists use as test points. Damned if you do damned if you don't issue I guess..
The Hawk said:
If you choose to believe that. Knowing the screen memory issues associated with the experience, I dont see any reason to.
And yes, the *boom* of abduction stories and accounts started in the 80's, with the advent of widespread use of regression therapy. Draw the lines, it's pretty easy.
The transgenic stuff also as you said started in the "beginning", no wonder then that it continued after cultural contamination in regression obtained accounts.
Visitors putting screen memories related to reproductive medical procedures, interaction with what look like hybrids. The viles of liquid with half human looking babies. Every other abductee being introduced to their own genetic half breed at some point and made to play with it for hours and hours on end.
Such screen memories would seem completely irrational. Screen memories seem to exist to confuse the abductee/contactee and humans in trying to look at the subject in general so we won't look at the real issue more seriously, transgenics. There are all these hundreds of nonsensical cases where someone has the memory of an owl, an angel, a deer, a tree! talking to them.. then missing time where they are found 10 miles away confused.
People seeing helicopters that don't make any noise and are missing blades, flying cars, too many alien species seen doing the same ridiculous stuff to be rational..
lol
Come on..
They are smart, they know damn well what they are doing.
These beings must have a sense of humor.
So far they have done a damn good job of covering their activities by making us all look like fools.
Then a competent hypnotist can come along and put a person under without leading them at all and suddenly "Hey wait that wasn't a helicopter! Why did I think that was a helecopter!?"
We end up with many people like you who are NOT trained to get past traumatic or screen memories trying to give their two sense and it just benefits the aliens. The way I see it all along everything fits when putting ALL of the data together. The visitors have one primary goal and that's the creation of transgenics who can infiltrate our society from within. That's how a race millions of years ahead of us wins. Not Independence Day style where they wreck the planet in the process but a slow, steady infiltration from within.
Ultimately there's nothing we can do. We can sit back, watch and wait. If everything pans out the way I'm saying then we will know..
From the information I've looked at. There are multi generations of hybrids. The new ones are almost entirely human looking. Abductees who have witnessed hybrids trying to give birth say they can't come to term. My guess is we have another 15-20 years before we will see stronger evidence of their full plan coming to fruition. I'd guess no more than 30 years.
If I live another 30 years and there isn't anything new, same stories, no disclosure then I'll say hey that theory was not the most valid. That Jeff Ritzmann guy probably did have a more valid theory, this is some weird almost intrinsic phenomenon that we may not ever really understand. (That fits about your current view eh? As I gather from your appearances on the Paracast..)
"The mysteries of UFOs "chasing" cars, disappearing, leaving marks on people's bodies, and so forth-all are routine elements of abduction activity. What researchers were hearing from those who had experiences or even sighted low-level UFOs were merely fragments of memories, often distorted and always incomplete. With competent hypnosis, what I have learned from countless people who have been abducted and taken aboard UFOs were complex, matching, detailed accounts all leading to unavoidable distressing conclusions. When I first heard of certain alien procedures, they sounded irrational and illogical, but as I learned about alien goals, they have proven to be the opposite. Everything the aliens do is logical, rational and goal-oriented. With the use of superior technology, both physical and biological, they are engaging in the systematic and clandestine physiological exploitation, and perhaps alteration, of human beings for the purposes of passing on their genetic capabilities to progeny who will integrate into human society and without doubt, control it." -David Jacobs PhD (The Threat)
Such screen memories would seem completely irrational. Screen memories seem to exist to confuse the abductee/contactee and humans in trying to look at the subject in general so we won't look at the real issue more seriously, transgenics. There are all these hundreds of nonsensical cases where someone has the memory of an owl, an angel, a deer, a tree! talking to them.. then missing time where they are found 10 miles away confused.
People seeing helicopters that don't make any noise and are missing blades, flying cars, too many alien species seen doing the same ridiculous stuff to be rational..
lol
Come on..
They are smart, they know damn well what they are doing.
These beings must have a sense of humor.
So far they have done a damn good job of covering their activities by making us all look like fools.
Then a competent hypnotist can come along and put a person under without leading them at all and suddenly "Hey wait that wasn't a helicopter! Why did I think that was a helecopter!?"
We end up with many people like you who are NOT trained to get past traumatic or screen memories trying to give their two sense and it just benefits the aliens. The way I see it all along everything fits when putting ALL of the data together. The visitors have one primary goal and that's the creation of transgenics who can infiltrate our society from within. That's how a race millions of years ahead of us wins. Not Independence Day style where they wreck the planet in the process but a slow, steady infiltration from within.
Ultimately there's nothing we can do. We can sit back, watch and wait. If everything pans out the way I'm saying then we will know..
From the information I've looked at. There are multi generations of hybrids. The new ones are almost entirely human looking. Abductees who have witnessed hybrids trying to give birth say they can't come to term. My guess is we have another 15-20 years before we will see stronger evidence of their full plan coming to fruition. I'd guess no more than 30 years.
If I live another 30 years and there isn't anything new, same stories, no disclosure then I'll say hey that theory was not the most valid. That Jeff Ritzmann guy probably did have a more valid theory, this is some weird almost intrinsic phenomenon that we may not ever really understand. (That fits about your current view eh? As I gather from your appearances on the Paracast..)
"The mysteries of UFOs "chasing" cars, disappearing, leaving marks on people's bodies, and so forth-all are routine elements of abduction activity. What researchers were hearing from those who had experiences or even sighted low-level UFOs were merely fragments of memories, often distorted and always incomplete. With competent hypnosis, what I have learned from countless people who have been abducted and taken aboard UFOs were complex, matching, detailed accounts all leading to unavoidable distressing conclusions. When I first heard of certain alien procedures, they sounded irrational and illogical, but as I learned about alien goals, they have proven to be the opposite. Everything the aliens do is logical, rational and goal-oriented. With the use of superior technology, both physical and biological, they are engaging in the systematic and clandestine physiological exploitation, and perhaps alteration, of human beings for the purposes of passing on their genetic capabilities to progeny who will integrate into human society and without doubt, control it." -David Jacobs PhD (The Threat)
Well if youre going to go by Jacobs, there's not much I can say. Jacobs was one of the main proponents of regression, again that never took into account cultural contamination.
I've said this before, and I'm sure it wont be the last: if these beings can effect our perception like we think, then there's absolutely no reason to believe the hybrid breeding stuff. There is no proof of it. Most people going for abduction regression already know the scenario, and of course thats what theyre going to see or recall.
All the marks or scars in the world dont prove a thing. If they are "alien" created, then there's nothing to say they didnt put them there to coinside with the screen memory and solidify the illusion.
Jacobs and Hopkins really only spoke of the top level experience, and that was the easy answer. It also made the best human interest story. But many psychotherapists will tell you that these memories are not memories...but cultural contamination and fantasy scenarios of the brain trying to make sense to fit your notion.
In my opinion, these abduction researchers using this method are doing so irresponsibly, knowing the pitfalls.
What you may or may not know is outside the Hopkins/Jacobs subjects, not many direct recall experiencers are seeing alien hybrid breeding programs, babies, and bubbling tubes of goo.
However the world doesnt want to accept the wierder scenes, because it's not a prepackaged answer...hell it's no answer at all. It's easier to believe breeding programs then the alternative.
I've said this before, and I'm sure it wont be the last: if these beings can effect our perception like we think, then there's absolutely no reason to believe the hybrid breeding stuff. There is no proof of it. Most people going for abduction regression already know the scenario, and of course thats what theyre going to see or recall.
All the marks or scars in the world dont prove a thing. If they are "alien" created, then there's nothing to say they didnt put them there to coinside with the screen memory and solidify the illusion.
Jacobs and Hopkins really only spoke of the top level experience, and that was the easy answer. It also made the best human interest story. But many psychotherapists will tell you that these memories are not memories...but cultural contamination and fantasy scenarios of the brain trying to make sense to fit your notion.
In my opinion, these abduction researchers using this method are doing so irresponsibly, knowing the pitfalls.
What you may or may not know is outside the Hopkins/Jacobs subjects, not many direct recall experiencers are seeing alien hybrid breeding programs, babies, and bubbling tubes of goo.
However the world doesnt want to accept the wierder scenes, because it's not a prepackaged answer...hell it's no answer at all. It's easier to believe breeding programs then the alternative.
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
jritzmann said:
Which would be....? Seriously, what's the deal? That's like the third time this week alone where I've read a post on this board laced with a "I-know-something-you-don't-know" flavour. Out with it, people! I don't care how nuts you think it makes you sound, if you think you know something, spill it!
We're supposed to be congregating here to try and reach a new level of understanding with these phenomena. How the hell are we supposed to do that if people are gonna hold back and trip over their own egos everytime things transcend into territory that's a little "off"? DUH. It's all "off"! That's why it's paranormal!
So talk, damn you! All of you! Don't make me get the branding irons...
CapnG said:
Thats not the flavor I used at all. I've detailed alot of wierd stuff right on the show. Go listen. Sorry, I've just typed it so many times it's easier just to listen.
Want a recent one? OK. Here's the summary.
I'm watching TV last week. I go get a snack and go to sit back down. When I do, the TV shuts off.
Wierd? No. I sat on the remote. As I get up to get it and turn the TV back on, someone catches my attention to my left, in the forward sunroom (off living room). A man, rather normal looking. Wearing a blue shirt.
I then realized I couldnt move, but I wasnt paralyzed, my feet just wouldnt work...I guess maybe fear or shock.
He said: "The seven rule the nine". When I asked what that meant, he said it again.
I asked if he was one of "them" to which he snickered. I looked back down at the couch for a split second and realized I was still part-way bent over. As I looked back up he was gone. There was absolutely no sound, and he never moved.
Typical wierdness. And almost typical of experiences I have here and there, although I've never seen anything that looked human before.
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
jritzmann said:
I'm familiar with your interviews on the paracast Jeff (quite interesting too) but that's not what I meant. When you say something like "It's easier to believe breeding programs then the alternative." it's implying that you have a specific alternative in mind.
So, rather than a complete recounting of your experiences to date (which would be both an unfair imposition and comlpetely unecessary given the aforementioned paracast archive) what I was hoping for was a concise summary of what you think that "alternative" is, even if it's simply "I don't know, nobody knows".
The way I see it alien, multi-dimensional it doesn't matter what the visitors are they are a separate intelligence not us and therefore obviously they have agendas. Nothing exists simply to weird us out.. Perhaps the visitors use especially bizarre screen memories for Jeff here because they find it useful, I don't know.
What I do know is that 100% of all encounters I've ever read with people who feel they have had direct experience with grays know that they are telepathic and can read minds, paralyze people and force them to see things that aren't there. The apparent invisibility that often occurs is basically no longer science fiction. All methods of travel that surpass the speed of light include space and multidimensional manipulation hence their bizarre seemingly supernatural ability to walk through walls and take people through walls. That aside what Jeff has experienced could be the result of a poltergeist and have nothing to do with the visitors in the first place.
How many bouts of missing time do you recall?
I know you described one incident with a hitchhiker that's archetypal to the abduction phenomenon. In the show you seemed to express a feeling that it doesn't fit anything you've heard of. This is uninformed I dare say common.
I'm not arguing or anything, I respect your opinion. I'm just laying it out on the table how I have come to see these phenomenon.
What I do know is that 100% of all encounters I've ever read with people who feel they have had direct experience with grays know that they are telepathic and can read minds, paralyze people and force them to see things that aren't there. The apparent invisibility that often occurs is basically no longer science fiction. All methods of travel that surpass the speed of light include space and multidimensional manipulation hence their bizarre seemingly supernatural ability to walk through walls and take people through walls. That aside what Jeff has experienced could be the result of a poltergeist and have nothing to do with the visitors in the first place.
How many bouts of missing time do you recall?
I know you described one incident with a hitchhiker that's archetypal to the abduction phenomenon. In the show you seemed to express a feeling that it doesn't fit anything you've heard of. This is uninformed I dare say common.
I'm not arguing or anything, I respect your opinion. I'm just laying it out on the table how I have come to see these phenomenon.
Oh, sorry then.
Well there's lots of alternatives, how about a culture that exists for us somewhere between life and death?
Or, maybe some sort of contact with dimensional beings that are on the very limits of our perception?
Any way you cut it, for some of the alternatives there's not even enough information to write a book.
We dont know all the questions yet..thats the problem...yet everyone wants to give the answer.
Well there's lots of alternatives, how about a culture that exists for us somewhere between life and death?
Or, maybe some sort of contact with dimensional beings that are on the very limits of our perception?
Any way you cut it, for some of the alternatives there's not even enough information to write a book.
We dont know all the questions yet..thats the problem...yet everyone wants to give the answer.
The Hawk said:
It didnt fit anything at the time I'd been exposed to. I still dont view that as archetypal either. It's definitely not the norm. I dont think I can call myself uninformed after I been involved with this crap most of my life.
As far as the guy in the sunroom, I can say for absolute certain it was "them" or the same phenomena. There's a feeling, and a sardonic attitude that I felt especially strong. Especially at the snicker.
Missing time, and how many? Not terribly many, but some. I couldnt say a number, but about 10% of the overall I'd say. Usually it's at such a point that I'm already horror stricken beyond all words.
If not, it's right after seeing a strange light in the sky, or in the room, and it's seamless. I took a 3 hour walk down my 12ft hall one night. Almost perfectly seamless.
Sorry, "uninformed" sounds like condescending wording..
I'm sure you have read as much or more than I related to weird such phenomenon. I personally have read 3 accounts from abduction researchers that I can remember with such hitchhikers changing form in the back seat and wanting to be let out in the middle of nowhere.. with miles of missing road and missing time involved. I feel my reason for calling it common has come from hearing such accounts dozens of times from callers on talk shows. These have stuck in my head quite well probably because I have also heard something similar from two friends.
I'm sure you have read as much or more than I related to weird such phenomenon. I personally have read 3 accounts from abduction researchers that I can remember with such hitchhikers changing form in the back seat and wanting to be let out in the middle of nowhere.. with miles of missing road and missing time involved. I feel my reason for calling it common has come from hearing such accounts dozens of times from callers on talk shows. These have stuck in my head quite well probably because I have also heard something similar from two friends.